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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:35 PM
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Default 2013 CA AB 760 Dickinson - 5 cents/round ammo tax (appears DEAD 5/24)

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...arch_keywords=

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An act to amend Section 1656.1 of the Civil Code, and to add Part 14.5 (commencing with Section 33001) to Division 2 of the Revenue and Taxation Code, relating to taxation, to take effect immediately, tax levy.


LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

AB 760, as introduced, Dickinson. Taxes: ammunition sales.
Existing sales and use tax laws impose taxes on retailers measured by the gross receipts from the sale of tangible personal property sold at retail in this state, or on the storage, use, or other consumption in this state of tangible personal property purchased from a retailer for storage, use, or other consumption in this state.
This bill would impose a tax upon retailers for the privilege of selling ammunition, as defined, at the rate of $0.05 per item of ammunition sold in this state on or after January 1, 2014. It would also impose a complemental excise tax on the storage, use, or other consumption in this state of ammunition purchased from a retailer for storage, use, or other consumption in this state, as provided. The tax would be collected pursuant to the procedures set forth in the Fee Collection Procedures Law. This bill would require that revenues collected pursuant to these taxes be allocated to the School-Based Early Mental Health Intervention and Prevention Services Matching Grant Program.

This bill would take effect immediately as a tax levy.

Vote: 2/3
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:01 PM
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:04 PM
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Is the 2/3 vote requirement because this is "relating to taxation"?

This may be a good thermometer to watch, see if these pols have the stomach to ram these through.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:27 PM
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at the rate of $0.05 per item of ammunition sold in this state on or after January 1, 2014
What exactly is an Item of Ammunition 1 bullet or 1 box ?
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ready_eSeVe View Post
Is the 2/3 vote requirement because this is "relating to taxation"?

This may be a good thermometer to watch, see if these pols have the stomach to ram these through.
It's a no-brainer.

With a 2/3rds super libtard majority - EVERYTHING they want will pass...
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:52 PM
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I said a tax was coming... they will regulate weapons into nothing but paper weights when its all said and done.

If the Founders were here today they would look upon the people of this nation in absolute disgust. They put their lives on the line over a tax and gun seizure, we have allowed ourselves to be taxed to no end and guns "seized" via restrictive laws, fees taxes etc
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
It's a no-brainer.

With a 2/3rds super libtard majority - EVERYTHING they want will pass...
Well I'll just roll over and wag my tail then. Like I said "we'll see" and you may be correct but I'm not so sure they'll actually use the super majority for EVERYTHING.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
I said a tax was coming... they will regulate weapons into nothing but paper weights when its all said and done.

If the Founders were here today they would look upon the people of this nation in absolute disgust. They put their lives on the line over a tax and gun seizure, we have allowed ourselves to be taxed to no end and guns "seized" via restrictive laws, fees taxes etc
This state is done so as few others. Time to either do something about it or go live somewhere else.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:35 AM
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its hard to vote in change when the set of leather faced old women just wont give up their power.

they pander to the bottom feeders, feed off all the special interest groups and have been in power for so long that no one has the war chest to do the PR/TV fight.
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Old 02-22-2013, 1:05 AM
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If they pass this BS I'll be heading to Arizona & Nevada more often to pick up all my ammo.
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Old 02-22-2013, 4:22 AM
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If they pass this BS I'll be heading to Arizona & Nevada more often to pick up all my ammo.
exactly, bet a bunch of people will just suck up the 50 bucks per 1000 rounds and be done with it though.
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Old 02-22-2013, 4:52 AM
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exactly, bet a bunch of people will just suck up the 50 bucks per 1000 rounds and be done with it though.
$50 more is a lot to pay when buying 2 bricks of 22LR. More than double the cost.
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tekno View Post
its hard to vote in change when the set of leather faced old women just wont give up their power.

they pander to the bottom feeders, feed off all the special interest groups and have been in power for so long that no one has the war chest to do the PR/TV fight.
Amen
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:23 AM
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:40 AM
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Originally Posted by b18bturboek9 View Post
If they pass this BS I'll be heading to Arizona & Nevada more often to pick up all my ammo.
Me too. But then the next thing they will do is want to fund a new program because they have learned what everyone is doing. They will want dogs and all vehicles searched as they cross state lines to look for ammo.
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:43 AM
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The 2/3rds is more complex as there will be several rounds of musical chairs as some state senators won congressional races and vacated.
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Old 02-22-2013, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by AleksandreCz View Post
What exactly is an Item of Ammunition 1 bullet or 1 box ?
Consensus here seems to be $.05 per round. So for a bulk pack of 525 rounds of .22LR, you'd be paying $26 more in taxes, for an item that retails for $20. This tax doesn't exempt reloading, and you'd be getting taxed $.05 for every primer, bullet, possibly cartridge, and powder (though it baffles the mind how that would be counted in practice).

But even if it were $.05/SKU, it would still be too much. This taxation effort shows the Democratic party's utter contempt for law-abiding gun owners. I just don't understand how they can harbor so much hate.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2013, 5:59 AM
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the privilege of selling ammunition
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Vlad 11 View Post
[IMG][/IMG]
This.

It would also be ironic if it were more cost effective to load shot shells with pennies and nickels than actual shot.

The passage of such a tax would have an immediate effect of driving purchases out of state.
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:19 AM
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The definition of a unit of ammunition is a single round. It is vague and poorly writted, so who knows how it affects reloading components. But between this, reporting requirements, record keeping, and backround checks on ammo, ammo will be more than I'm willing to pay for it. The intent is clear, criminal use of guns is not on the radar, clay shooters and sport shooters are.

Last edited by compulsivegunbuyer; 02-22-2013 at 6:29 AM..
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Old 02-22-2013, 6:37 AM
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They won't have a 2/3 majority by the end of April and there's no way they'll have a budget done by then to vote on this stuff anyhow.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:13 AM
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I lost count at this point but there must be at least 20 - 30 gun bills at this point; enough that they're going to have to pick and choose which to pursue and the DOJ won't have the funding to implement them all. Some will be vetoed in all likelihood by Brown to prevent long costly court battles.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:41 AM
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the only affect this bill will have is to put CA businesses out of business. Any self respecting gun owner will buy their ammo out of state from now on so as not to give the rulers any gratification
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
The definition of a unit of ammunition is a single round. It is vague and poorly writted, so who knows how it affects reloading components. But between this, reporting requirements, record keeping, and backround checks on ammo, ammo will be more than I'm willing to pay for it. The intent is clear, criminal use of guns is not on the radar, clay shooters and sport shooters are.
Quote:
33011. For purposes of this part:
(a) “Ammunition” means projectiles with their fuse, propelling charges, or primers fired from a weapon, or any of the individual components thereof, including without limitation shot, sharpel bullets, or shells. “Ammunition” shall not include a BB or a pellet commonly used in an air rifle or air pistol.
Im not sure how one can read that to mean anything other than a tax would apply to each individual component when purchased seperately, as a reloader would.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:56 AM
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Originally Posted by BMartin1776 View Post
I said a tax was coming... they will regulate weapons into nothing but paper weights when its all said and done.

If the Founders were here today they would look upon the people of this nation in absolute disgust. They put their lives on the line over a tax and gun seizure, we have allowed ourselves to be taxed to no end and guns "seized" via restrictive laws, fees taxes etc
If you remember those in the colonies put up with quite a bit for quite a while before deciding that enough was enough. We are in a similar situation. All that it takes is for the proposal to cross a certain line. It is all but certain that this will happen if the courts don't help to strike these bills down. The politicians are going full retard right now.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:59 AM
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They won't have a 2/3 majority by the end of April and there's no way they'll have a budget done by then to vote on this stuff anyhow.
CA may have a prohibition against passing any legislation until their budget is complete, but it has NEVER stopped the politicians in this state from doing so anyway. Politicians WILLFULLY violate pretty much ANY law they chose without any consequence.
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:14 AM
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CA may have a prohibition against passing any legislation until their budget is complete, but it has NEVER stopped the politicians in this state from doing so anyway. Politicians WILLFULLY violate pretty much ANY law they chose without any consequence.
If someone showed up at the Capitol with a boiling tar pot and a pile of chicken feathers, legislators would introduce a bill listing tar as a public health hazard and tax feather possession by the unit, fully aware that no one has the fortitude to use them for their intended purposes in spite of a nagging desire to.
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:28 AM
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I will certainly say that the 5 cent tax is a pretty blatant way to go after low income gun owners and prevent them from having enough ammo to practice.

I'm sure my in laws will love this law because now they'll be seeing me more often on the other side of the state line LOL!
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Old 02-22-2013, 8:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
I will certainly say that the 5 cent tax is a pretty blatant way to go after low income gun owners and prevent them from having enough ammo to practice.

I'm sure my in laws will love this law because now they'll be seeing me more often on the other side of the state line LOL!
If this passes I am pretty sure that every ski trip will see me coming back 1000 rds or more heavier
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:00 AM
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CA may have a prohibition against passing any legislation until their budget is complete, but it has NEVER stopped the politicians in this state from doing so anyway. Politicians WILLFULLY violate pretty much ANY law they chose without any consequence.
There's no prohibition on passing legislation prior to the budget. Generally ~200-300 bills comes down in June with the budget and budget trailers. This just means they moved swiftly through the early committee hearings.

On the supermajority front, Senator Rubio, a moderate Democrat, resigned this morning, he could have been an ally but that puts a lot of pressure on you guys in Kern county to get a pro 2A legislator elected to the Senate.

Also, hearing rumors another moderate Democrat and generally pro-2A legislator will be resigning soon. The Assemblymember and heir-apparent for that district is also a democrat but I know he conceal carries.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:46 AM
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I just sent this goofball an email off of his website. He is clown. This guy is something else. Been in a debate or two with him about other topics in the past. He used to walk the pow wow days parade every year and used to get the biggest boo's from the crowds.

I thanked him for sending me out of state on day trips to spend money in another state - I also asked him to just be honest and tell the truth that this is really an attempt at a gun grab. I also told him "I think you are twisted for using the children to push your anti - gun agenda". I also told him that he took an oath to protect and uphold the constitution and it has been dully noted that he is not a fan nor a supporter of the Constitution.

I really wish this welfare recipient Lifelong Politician would go away or get voted out. I couldnt stand the guy when he was on the BOS. He os off bragging today about swearing in his good friend Joe Serna at the air resources board. Hopefully they dont give good ole Joe a credit card and if they do he keeps it away from his daughter. Maybe they will come up with new restrictions on what days I can burn in my fireplace.....
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:47 AM
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It's a no-brainer.

With a 2/3rds super libtard majority - EVERYTHING they want will pass...
Oh, please...

I see little chance of this passing and being signed by Brown, which is unfortunate. Personally, I would LOVE to see this pass, as we would easily get it blocked while we fight it in court.

This is clearly a punitive tax with no merit and stands no hope of being upheld by the courts.

Like many of their bills, this one too will die in committee.

If they are unlucky, this will pass.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:53 AM
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NO More TAXES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:03 AM
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Too bad it won't pass though... CGF could use the money from an easy case like this.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
It's a no-brainer.

With a 2/3rds super libtard majority - EVERYTHING they want will pass...
Few threads up... Michael Rubio (D) is leaving, and with him a super majority.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 AM
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Oh, please...

I see little chance of this passing and being signed by Brown, which is unfortunate. Personally, I would LOVE to see this pass, as we would easily get it blocked while we fight it in court.

This is clearly a punitive tax with no merit and stands no hope of being upheld by the courts.

Like many of their bills, this one too will die in committee.

If they are unlucky, this will pass.
I hope you are right on all counts, but I clearly remember a piece of Legislation being put forward by a guy known as "MEATHEAD" that raised a 50¢ tax on a pack of cigarettes. To pay for research for improved quitting methods? For future health care for cancer sufferers? For anything at all having to do with smoking or at least health?

No... the money was for our schools. They can and have passed this sort of thing before.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:21 AM
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Oh, please...

I see little chance of this passing and being signed by Brown, which is unfortunate. Personally, I would LOVE to see this pass, as we would easily get it blocked while we fight it in court.

This is clearly a punitive tax with no merit and stands no hope of being upheld by the courts.

Like many of their bills, this one too will die in committee.

If they are unlucky, this will pass.
“You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.

Yeah! Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... ****, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ***.’
And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your f*cking head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’
So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.” - Chris Rock

After Chris Rock did this bit some people suggested that putting a prohibitive tax on bullets would be one way of outlawing guns. One response that I heard to that was that this would be declared unconstitutional because it would be the equivalent of putting a prohibitive tax on printers ink in order to get around the first amendment.

Is that what you are saying?
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:22 AM
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I hope you are right on all counts, but I clearly remember a piece of Legislation being put forward by a guy known as "MEATHEAD" that raised a 50¢ tax on a pack of cigarettes. To pay for research for improved quitting methods? For future health care for cancer sufferers? For anything at all having to do with smoking or at least health?

No... the money was for our schools. They can and have passed this sort of thing before.
No, they haven't. Cigarette's are not only NOT fundamental human rights, they are a vice. Taxing something that is widely considered a vice is easy.

A punitive tax on something that is part and parcel of a civil right is entirely different.

Without ammo, a gun is a poor stand in for a club.

You should go back and read the majority opinion in Heller.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:27 AM
Hoooper Hoooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyGunner View Post
No... the money was for our schools. They can and have passed this sort of thing before.
I seem to remember SCOTUS taking an issue with poll taxes...
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Old 02-23-2013, 8:43 AM
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So any idea when this bill will pass/not pass?
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