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  #1  
Old 02-22-2013, 6:54 PM
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Default FFL's now refusing to take PPT's?

I sent my nephew over to Ade's in Orange to do a PPT sale. When he and the buyer walked in they were told that Ade's no longer does PPT transactions. Go down the street to the Army/Navy store.

The Army/Navy store did the PPT for them. But the guy behind the counter asked how many other places had turned them away. He said "lots" of places are turning the PPT's away.

I didn't think they could do that? Is this something new?

Anybody else having a problem?
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:03 PM
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Nothing new...
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:05 PM
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Start reporting these folks to DOJ. Being an as*****. Can go both ways.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:10 PM
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Ade's did my ppt in januarary, what the h*ll happened???!!!! Now I gotta go to fowlers?!
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:17 PM
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OMG Fowlers has 10x MORE complaints about not doing PPT's. They openly say they will not do them on Saturdays.

Turners will do them 7 days a week. Not a HUGE fan of Turners, but they will do them, if you wait in line... But heck... This is FRIDAY.

I do business with Ades, never had this issue. I'm kinda hoping this was a mis-communication. But I doubt it. Ade's is (or was) THE gunstore in Orange.

.
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:23 PM
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Warrior one in riverside was willing to do mine, but wanted to charge me $45 extra per gun to hold it because their back room was full. I told them politely to piss off.
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:25 PM
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Law says the have to do them. Report them!
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:26 PM
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yea report them
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:28 PM
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Reporting is fine...but guess what?

The DOJ will do nothing about it.

Report away but there is no enforcement.
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by keenkeen View Post
Reporting is fine...but guess what?

The DOJ will do nothing about it.

Report away but there is no enforcement.
Are these types of complaints logged? Would that log show up when it comes time to renew their license?
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  #11  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:31 PM
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Then refuse to do business there and urge people to do the same. If a business doesn't care about ALL customers then go elsewhere.
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:40 PM
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Probably because it ties up the sales folks from store gun sales. For them to do a PPT is kinda like them doing a favor to the customer. Nowadays with sales being the way they are, some places dont have enough room in their safes for an out of store transaction... why keep a gun in inventory that wasnt sold by them for $50 ? Most places in SD dont mind but they will make you wait until they are done with other customers first or set up specific times and days to come in and do it.
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:44 PM
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I went last Saturday to do a PPT at Insight Shooting Range in Artesia which the other party had chosen. Insight said that PPT's will be done only by appointment, not on weekends but on Thursday only. They said that they had done a lot of PPT's so it looks like they got tired of it. If it's the law that they have to do a PPT, then technically they are complying but making it real difficult by only doing it one day out of the week on Thursday.
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  #14  
Old 02-22-2013, 7:54 PM
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I do apologize that our turning away PPTs has upset so many people, I do not have any control over it I just do what I'm told.

Reason why we're having to turn them away is that we are very heavily backlogged on many things, most of it being paperwork. The days I am working in there during the week, there is seemly never ending paperwork among other tedious activities that have had us working some late nights.

It is heartwarming to see so many people suggesting to throw us under the bus for this inconvenience, especially those who have not been inconvenienced personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantaboi2012 View Post
Probably because it ties up the sales folks from store gun sales. For them to do a PPT is kinda like them doing a favor to the customer. Nowadays with sales being the way they are, some places dont have enough room in their safes for an out of store transaction... why keep a gun in inventory that wasnt sold by them for $50 ? Most places in SD dont mind but they will make you wait until they are done with other customers first or set up specific times and days to come in and do it.
Your insight and understanding is refreshing. This is some of the issues we face as well. Specific appointment times for PPTs is an idea we are working on.

-Kevin
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Plisk View Post
I do apologize that our turning away PPTs has upset so many people, I do not have any control over it I just do what I'm told.

Reason why we're having to turn them away is that we are very heavily backlogged on many things, most of it being paperwork. The days I am working in there during the week, there is seemly never ending paperwork among other tedious activities that have had us working some late nights.

It is heartwarming to see so many people suggesting to throw us under the bus for this inconvenience, especially those who have not been inconvenienced personally.



Your insight and understanding is refreshing. This is some of the issues we face as well. Specific appointment times for PPTs is an idea we are working on.

-Kevin
Ade's Gun Shop
Is there a timeline for getting caught up and to start doing PPTs again?

It is great that you shared the details of the issue and hopefully people will be understanding to those points...but in the end the people showing up for a PPT are just trying to follow the law.

They are not any more excited about it than the FFL is.

Hopefully it will be back on track soon.
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  #16  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:15 PM
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Those who do PPT's well (in the Bay Area, I choose Reeds and Markley's) get all my business. And that is a lot of business. Those that don't, I merely return the favor. And then all those referrals.
It's a common mistake of small business. Nothing is more valuable than foot traffic.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plisk View Post
Reason why we're having to turn them away is that we are very heavily backlogged on many things, most of it being paperwork.
The issue, as I'm sure you understand, is that under Penal Code Section 12082, a licensed dealer that otherwise sells, transfers or keeps an inventory of handguns must conduct PPTs. You cannot refuse to do them. The practice of requiring appointments or limiting the hours during which they can be conducted is, in my opinion, legally questionable.

But that's just my opinion.

Last edited by canopis; 02-22-2013 at 8:23 PM.. Reason: Typo.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by uhlan1 View Post
Those who do PPT's well (in the Bay Area, I choose Reeds and Markley's) get all my business. And that is a lot of business. Those that don't, I merely return the favor. And then all those referrals.
It's a common mistake of small business. Nothing is more valuable than foot traffic.
10 times
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:32 PM
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Call the store before you do a PPT and ask them what time and day is best to do a PPT.

If they still decline to do the PPT, out them on the calguns board, report the,to the DOJ, and take your business else where.

By law, they have to do it. I can't imagine Ades is that busy, most stores don't have much stock.
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:36 PM
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Originally Posted by canopis View Post
The issue, as I'm sure you understand, is that under Penal Code Section 12082, a licensed dealer that otherwise sells, transfers or keeps an inventory of handguns must conduct PPTs. You cannot refuse to do them. The practice of requiring appointments or limiting the hours during which they can be conducted is, in my opinion, legally questionable.

But that's just my opinion.
lolz -

I'm just a local who likes Ade's. You realize this is a shop that has like 3-4 employees? And that this is the craziest time that ANY gun shop has seen since - what - FOREVER ?

Just saying, Ade's has been serving Orange, for like, well, 20+ years, and are probably reeling from the sales paperwork.

So, it seems it's up to CA DOJ to make the decisions ( lack of following Penal Codes ) that you are proposing.

I typically don't get involved in these whizzing matches, but Ades was there through good times and bad, always being the good local gun shop.

So yeah, report them, throw them under the bus, foul over a decent gun shop.

I think the long term history is more important than a short term issue. Not saying that they should refuse PPT's, but maybe given this crazy time, there are reasons.

.
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  #21  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by uhlan1 View Post
Those who do PPT's well (in the Bay Area, I choose Reeds and Markley's) get all my business. And that is a lot of business. Those that don't, I merely return the favor. And then all those referrals.
It's a common mistake of small business. Nothing is more valuable than foot traffic.

^^^^ This

I support Bullseye in San Rafael and City Arms in Pacifica. While it takes longer to process a PPT at Bullseye and they force you to buy a crummy lock, they have never turned me away and so I support their store (at PPT and pickup) and their range. City Arms is very efficient and I also support their store by buying something when I PPT and when I pick up 10 days later.
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  #22  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:44 PM
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Use PPTs as a metric. Shops that don't want to do them or that make it difficult by setting day and time restrictions are unfriendly shops and do not deserve your business.

It's a pain in the *** for everyone involved, but shops making it even more difficult just piss me off. We are required to do it. FFLs are in this case agents of the srate and are required to do it. If they don't want to then they shouldn't be an FFL.

The DOJ BOF will eventually do something. I was in B2 (a local gunshop) the other day doing a PPT in the 3 hour window that they do it per week when I heard the guys behind the counter talking about how the DOJ had just called them and said they can't limit the times like that.
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:50 PM
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I think that's against the law to refuse to do PPTs. You would think they would like the extra business since most have nothing to sell.
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:39 PM
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We can save waving of fists and nashing of teeth for other FFLs that exclusively refuse to conduct PPT for whatever bogus reasons.

I can't remember any time Ade's has had to refuse to do service for any customer if they are not capable of doing so. They have a reputation for doing their customers good.

Despite the fact the law requires them as a FFL business to do this time of service. If it's not physically possible for them to take on extra inventory, materials, and paperwork, it should not warrant a full throw under the bus. For their dealer it's a rescheduling. Not a denial of service. I think if this aspect can be explained to the customers, this would make things easier.

Don't throw them under the bus. There are more deserving jerks out there.
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:44 PM
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its like jury duty for us it is their civic duty as an ffl
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
its like jury duty for us it is their civic duty as an ffl
Do you READ the above posts or just randomly inject your input? Point being when the LGS would **** us over, Ades WOULD do the PPT's. Something has changed in the recent months.

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  #27  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plisk View Post
I do apologize that our turning away PPTs has upset so many people, I do not have any control over it I just do what I'm told.

Reason why we're having to turn them away is that we are very heavily backlogged on many things, most of it being paperwork. The days I am working in there during the week, there is seemly never ending paperwork among other tedious activities that have had us working some late nights.

It is heartwarming to see so many people suggesting to throw us under the bus for this inconvenience, especially those who have not been inconvenienced personally.
Its not just an inconvenience. Its the law.

Paperwork backlog? Work after hours or hire more employees.

Once you get caught up, implement a number system. Aka "Take a number please and wait until your number is called. Thanks!". Then serve the current customer's (number's) needs until done. Including PPTs.

Many, many shops have handled this same panic very successfully. Your excuses ring rather hollow. Step up, follow the law, and take care of your customers.
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:57 PM
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If a FFL can't handle the mass of PPT's that come through their door, they need to work with the DOJ to get them done or the requirement abolished, not break the law and leave the private party hanging. They have a monopoly on gun sales that is backed by state law, which is as much an opportunity as a burden. I don't say "gee, I'm really busy and can't fill-out 15 minutes of paperwork, I think I'll just ignore the law and make this a black-market sale"
I go to a gun-store that follows the law.
If it is actually impossible to make the transfers that walk through the door, then the DOJ needs to pay the stores to do their work, but I really doubt that is the case.
Report the store, take all your business elsewhere and ***** about it here. The political climate has given stores low inventory to grouse about, not lack of patrons or sales.
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  #29  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:09 PM
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Did they tell you why? Hmmm..
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:11 PM
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Its the law
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plisk View Post
I do apologize that our turning away PPTs has upset so many people, I do not have any control over it I just do what I'm told.

Reason why we're having to turn them away is that we are very heavily backlogged on many things, most of it being paperwork. The days I am working in there during the week, there is seemly never ending paperwork among other tedious activities that have had us working some late nights.

It is heartwarming to see so many people suggesting to throw us under the bus for this inconvenience, especially those who have not been inconvenienced personally.



Your insight and understanding is refreshing. This is some of the issues we face as well. Specific appointment times for PPTs is an idea we are working on.

-Kevin
Ade's Gun Shop

Just have to point it out again. Don't care how busy you are.
YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO DO IT.
So sorry to INCONVENIENCE YOU!!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California44 View Post
Wondering... is there a lot of activity other than PPT's and a few dealer sales given the low inventory? Or should I start shopping at your store to find items in stock?
There haven't been very many PPT walk-ins, at least the days I work. Whatever we get in stock sells out very fast. We have a lot of inventory in DROS from store sales, and even more sitting in DROS from Out of State transfers. We're also buying from individuals at an increased rate which takes up a lot of inventory space since we have to hold them for 30 days until they can be DROS'd per Pawnbroker laws.
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  #33  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkk6869 View Post
Warrior one in riverside was willing to do mine, but wanted to charge me $45 extra per gun to hold it because their back room was full. I told them politely to piss off.
sniff...sniffffff..... snifffffffffffffffffffffffff.....hmmm something does not smell right there.....

i know mike and norris...they do not fly like that.....


so i call b.s. on the 45 extra for a PPT unless it was a shipping gun receipt,which is a whole entirely different market. getting a shipped gun in is more work and hassle so you must pay more.
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  #34  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:54 PM
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why keep a gun in inventory that wasnt sold by them for $50 ?
Maybe to comply with the law - since it's a legal condition of doing business?
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jben View Post
Just have to point it out again. Don't care how busy you are.
YOU ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO DO IT.
So sorry to INCONVENIENCE YOU!!!
This. Don't want to do PPTs? Want to charge fees in violation of the PC? Don't whine when someone drops the dime on you, outs you here, and your customer base shrinks. Gun stores are here for our, the customer's, convenience, not us for yours. Wake up and smell the coffee, or join the ranks of the unemployed. Your choice, and we'll help you make it.
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  #36  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
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Do you have a sense for the main reasons folks are selling? Is it just the usual of trying to make a quick profit?
Essentially yes, trying to capitalize on the current market and/or consolidate their inventory to get some of the more in demand products.
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  #37  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:42 PM
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The DOJ website clearly states that no FFL may refuse or limit the times that PPT's are preformed, nor can they charge in excess of $35, per California PC! Period! End of sentence! End of paragraph!
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:49 PM
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also for the warrior 1 basher...

they are one of the rare non-gouge shops out there
they post stock updates on their facebook
they got 25 striped lowers in the other day and the selfish fools sold them all....for $129 each....yeah .,...they are so bad.....
10 min ppt's and all...
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  #39  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:34 AM
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mabilis_matulis mabilis_matulis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF/EMT Nick View Post
The DOJ website clearly states that no FFL may refuse or limit the times that PPT's are preformed, nor can they charge in excess of $35, per California PC! Period! End of sentence! End of paragraph!
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Old 02-23-2013, 8:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitchnicklas View Post
also for the warrior 1 basher...

they are one of the rare non-gouge shops out there
they post stock updates on their facebook
they got 25 striped lowers in the other day and the selfish fools sold them all....for $129 each....yeah .,...they are so bad.....
10 min ppt's and all...
i have no reason to argue with you. i'd used them for several other ppt's. i went in yesterday with a gentleman who was trading two of his guns for my AR. I had a pistol and a .22lr AR going my way, and my AR going his way. we were told the normal fee plus an extra $45 per gun just for the AR's because there were so many AR's in the back and they were out of room. don't believe me, call them and say you need to transfer some AR's. don't care what i say, don't call. it doesn't matter much to me. i took my business down the freewat to bullseye and got my stuff taken care of.
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