Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2008, 5:26 PM
aplinker's Avatar
aplinker aplinker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West LA
Posts: 16,811
iTrader: 92 / 100%

The point here is that while shot placement is primary, an expanding bullet in non-ideal location is better than one that doesn't. It's about an incremental increase in performance.

Please be aware of the naming confusion!!

Winchester has several "Ranger" types. Their top of the line is SXT. This is the old black Talon, minus being black, with some improvements.

Federal's top of the line is now HST.

Of the two, Federal is looking better than Ranger.

I overpaid for my first few boxes.

AVOID all of the 20rd packages of SD pistol ammo (except loads with the new Barnes all copper bullet, like Cor-Bon's DPX). 20rd boxes are overpriced.

Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
What's that line? "9mm may expand; but .45 won't shrink!"
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 6:40 PM
8200rpm's Avatar
8200rpm 8200rpm is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ghetto Mesa, CA
Posts: 1,147
iTrader: 72 / 100%

As long as you use light fast bullets like a 115 gr 9mm ++PPP++, even with a complete miss, just the sheer shockwave alone will knock down an assailant. The energy transferred from the shockwave liquefies most vital internal organs... especially the pituitary gland when fired from a polygonal rifled barrel of a torture-tested Glock.

The only reason why shot placement is critical is so the bullet doesn't do collateral damage downrange. If your background is clear, shot placement is a luxury. Just fire away.

That's also why bullet should be designed with minimal penetration... 2" max. As long as the bullet expands, all it's energy will be transferred to the target. Why waste energy on permanent wound channel when you can use that energy to create a really really big temporary cavity that liquefies all the internal organs in the abdominal cavity.

Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 7:07 PM
QuarterBoreGunner's Avatar
QuarterBoreGunner QuarterBoreGunner is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Oakland, low crawling up on Emeryville and Berkeley.
Posts: 9,240
iTrader: 87 / 100%

You freak-o! I started reading that and!

I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero.

You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Like who?
Who else?
Farmers' mums.
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 7:34 PM
8200rpm's Avatar
8200rpm 8200rpm is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ghetto Mesa, CA
Posts: 1,147
iTrader: 72 / 100%

Originally Posted by rivviepop View Post
here comes rivvie with his pictures! I love me some eye candy.

Pictures don't paint a true picture of energy transfer. 147 gr is way too slow. C'mon, it's subsonic... not enough energy transfer to provide a hugenormous temporary cavity to liquefy any organs.

Shot placement doesn't really matter. Absolutely nothing will happen if that 147 gr. 9mm puts a hole in your right ventricle. Nothing will happen if it shatters your spine and severs your spinal cord. There simply isn't enough (325 lb.ft.) energy transfer.
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2008, 3:03 AM
MysteryCereal MysteryCereal is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 197
iTrader: 1 / 100%

+1 on HST , I bought mine thru Ammunition to Go

Got me a whole bunch of HTS 45 +P They do indeed have a kick. I wanted it to be my main personal defense ammo at home so I did what the pros say and shot a few hundred thru my 9mm and my 45acp. My hand might have hurt but knowing that my HK and SW like eating it, let's me sleep well at night.
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 3:57 PM
FallingDown's Avatar
FallingDown FallingDown is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Docked and blockaded in socialist waters until the summer 08'
Posts: 435
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Some think, why put time in training when you can buy your way out of the problem?

Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
What the Federal Inc. guys will tell you is that the post takes up the "dead space" in the middle of the hollow cavity in the bullet nose; thereby focusing expansion pressure in an annulus (donut shape) to facilitate the splinting of the jacket and therefore full expansion.
Starfire (Eldorado/PMC) was designed with internal fluting of the lead cavity walls; they said that the flutes focused the expansion pressure to facilitate the jacket splitting and expanding.
Winchester said "No, what you REALLY need is little sharp shards of jacket making a little buzz saw/shuriken." (and also by the way making a sharps hazard for EMTs and ER Docs). Like the sharp little points were going to make a damn bit of difference in the temporary stretch cavity of the wound channel. Bah.

It's called marketing people.

There's only really three things you need to know, wring the most efficiency out of absolutely any self defense ammo, and that is:

Shot placement
Shot placement

and oh yeah,

Shot placement.

If you're good enough you just carry a lil' Beretta .22 and put the rounds through the bad guy's eyeballs.
Most of us aren't that good though.

Did I mention shot placement?
I agree but Hollywood doesn't

Not even James Bond cut the mustard with the .25 Beretta taken away from him in Dr. No
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 4:24 PM
Ech0Sierra Ech0Sierra is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Walnut, CA
Posts: 941
iTrader: 2 / 100%

Nice post, necromancer.
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host., the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.