Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Competition, Action Shooting And Training.
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:00 AM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Ammunition Shortage Solutions for Training

From Mike Seeklander's Shooting Performance January 2013 emailed newsletter:


Quote:

Ammunition Shortage Solutions

As I write this ammunition is at an all time high and many firearms are very difficult to purchase or even find on the market. While I do believe the market will correct itself, I know it may take some time to do so. In the meantime, don't let your training suffer because you can't find, or afford ammunition.

Here are some viable solutions:

Replace some of your live fire training with dryfire. While dry fire training might certainly not be as fun as hitting the range and shooting, it offers a significant skill enhancing factor in your training. If you consider that you really should only be working on sight, trigger, and recoil management during live fire, then this leaves the rest trainable during dry fire. Get some safe training (dummy) rounds that are unfireable, and you can work on a huge variety of skills. Consider adding a P.A.C.T. type timer to your training sessions to give you the ability to set PAR times and really push yourself to the next level.

Replace full power ammunition training with a .22 conversion kit. There are a large variety of .22 conversion kits or full pistols that mimic your full power firearm. While a .22 conversion kit will not allow you to work on recoil control, it will allow you to assess where you are hitting, as well as work on trigger management (resetting and manipulating the trigger)

Consider using airsoft or a SIRT pistol for in home practice and an advanced version of dry fire. I personally use my SIRT pistol and my strike dummy (bob) and work close range drills and strikes. The laser that is emitted from the SIRT always allows me to check my positioning and hits. If you decided to use airsoft, make sure you follow all safety rules and wear safety equipment.

The bottom line is that these times are not soon behind us. Find a way to continue to train, especially if your training purpose is self defense. Use the little live fire ammunition time you have wisely and make sure the drills you do at the range are well designed!
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-24-2013, 2:37 PM
Bobby Hated's Avatar
Bobby Hated Bobby Hated is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,536
iTrader: 161 / 100%
Default

+1 airsoft
__________________
USPSA IPSC X3 NRG PRG LDF SWPL

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-24-2013, 3:54 PM
GM_77 GM_77 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 594
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default





HATERS GONNA HATE
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-24-2013, 4:32 PM
Sheepdog1968's Avatar
Sheepdog1968 Sheepdog1968 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,871
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

We went through a similar ammo drought when Obama got elected the first time. It took about two years before ammo availability setteled down. I suspect it will take at least as long this time.

Everyone should own a 22 pistol and rifle so they can practice inexpensively and then on a routine basis stop by a local store and buy a box of $500 for $20 or so. If you do this a couple of times a month you don't miss the money and start to build a resonable supply that will allow training to continue when shortages happen.
__________________
I think Thor's hammer was an 45-70 lever action loaded with Garrett cartridges.

I find that 90% of the questions asked here have been answered 20 or more years ago by Jeff in hid Gargantuan Gunsite Gossip books.


"Taking a rifle to a gunfight is the equivalent of taking a chainsaw to a knife fight." Lt. Col. Grossman in On Combat (Sec 2, Ch 1)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-24-2013, 4:32 PM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Bobby, you forgot the first rule of competitive shooting! Keep at least 2 years of components on hand. For you that should be about 60,000 rounds.........
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-24-2013, 4:40 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here's what Larry Vickers said a few days ago:

Quote:


Ammunition for students of 2013 Vickers Tactical classes

Based on the firearm and ammunition hysteria in the market in early 2013 I would like to put out some guidelines for students of my classes as well as information on sourcing ammo. Here goes;

1) Plan ahead; 400 rds per day is a good rule of thumb for my training classes - that number covers virtually all my curriculum. Your best bet is to shop around far in advance to purchase the ammo you need vs waiting until the last minute. In addition quality reloads are permitted in my classes ( see number 4 below )

2) Many of my drills can be structured for a reduced round count. For instance if you can only get 600 rds instead of 800 rds for a 2 day class we can make that work - remember any training is better than no training. I can adjust the drills to meet your ammo supply. My classes have always been quality vs. quantity with a heavy emphasis on accuracy so training won't suffer with a slightly reduced round count

3) 22 LR is authorized for classes. I have had students bring rimfire for different reasons before and I would encourage you to come with a 22 caliber long gun or handgun before you skip the class altogether. Understand that rimfire firearms are not as functionally reliable as centerfire weapons so if possible do your homework to see what kind of ammo your rimfire likes best

4) Factory new ammo is available from G&R Tactical www.gandrtactical.com and remanufactured ammo is available for a slightly discounted price from Everglades ammunition in Florida. Currently 9mm, .40 and .45 ammo is readily available for Vickers Tactical students with 5.56mm ammo coming on line from Everglades in the May 2013 timeframe ( approx). To order ammo from Everglades contact Stephen Bender at Steve@evergladesammo.com and tell him you are ordering ammo for one of my classes. The discount applies to the ammo needed for the class you are attending; any ammo you buy beyond that will be the normal price

If you have any questions contact me at Larry@VickersTactical.com

Thanks and I'll see you at the range!

Larry Vickers
Vickers Tactical Inc.
Host of TacTV
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-24-2013, 4:44 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here's what Rob Pincus said a few weeks ago:

Quote:

I.C.E. Training Lowers Round Count & Tuition for 2013!

In response to concerns from students about cost and availability of training ammo, I.C.E. Responds by lowering both course costs and round counts.


Effective Immediately, I.C.E. Training Company is reducing the round count of all 2013 courses.

In response to student concerns about the cost and availability of ammunition, especially for the busy Spring Training Season, Rob Pincus has decided to reduce round counts for all live fire range courses by up to 25%. “We’ve down this before,” says Rob,” in response to requests during the 2009 ammunition shortages. There is no reduction in the quality of the course.. in fact, since repetition over extended time is what really ingrains physical skills, it might even be a better course with a little more lecture and extended Q&A.”

While students always value putting “rounds down range” during any live fire course, and a certain amount of shooting is vital to skill learning and assuring that students understand what and how to train, it is not necessary to shoot over 1000 rounds in two days to make training valuable.

Minimum round counts for two day Combat Focus® Shooting courses will now be 800 rounds. Other courses, includind the popular Combat Focus® Carbine classes, will have their round counts reduced as well.

In addition to the reduced round counts, tuition prices are being lowered by $50 for 2013 as well, to help offset the rapidly rising cost of ammunition.
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-24-2013, 6:16 PM
SuperSet's Avatar
SuperSet SuperSet is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 8,918
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Bobby, you forgot the first rule of competitive shooting! Keep at least 2 years of components on hand. For you that should be about 60,000 rounds.........
That's smart to do but then again, even if you are setup, who are you going to compete against when your other shooters can't find ammo?
I went looking for 12 gauge bulk birdshot at WalMart this week and all the stores around me had nothing. Who the heck hoards bulk birdshot and what use is that gonna be in the revolution?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-24-2013, 6:30 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post

Who the heck hoards bulk birdshot and what use is that gonna be in the revolution?
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:03 PM
SvenFrost SvenFrost is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 113
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Don't you have an AAR to write, RamzAAR?
__________________
"[The right to bear arms] has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic." Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (1833)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:15 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SvenFrost View Post
Don't you have an AAR to write, RamzAAR?
Indeed. Especially the John McPhee carbine class from this past weekend where I / we got some of the best pistol instruction and diagnostics ever!

I'm remiss in my AAR duties only because I'm so concerned about classes and ammo the next 6+ months!
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:21 PM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
That's smart to do but then again, even if you are setup, who are you going to compete against when your other shooters can't find ammo?
The other smart shooters who also have 60,000 rounds. We should be able to do 6 stages in under 30 minutes.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-26-2013, 6:30 AM
HK35's Avatar
HK35 HK35 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The OC
Posts: 734
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
The other smart shooters who also have 60,000 rounds. We should be able to do 6 stages in under 30 minutes.
I'm liking this quick 6 stage match!!!

As for alternatives: I dry fire and use airsoft at home. Airsoft is loads of fun specially on steel targets.

Reloading also helps when factory ammo is in short supply & high demand. Speaking of which, Highlander, have you used HP-38 in 9mm loads? If so, what's a good load using 115gr RN with 1.155" COL and Magnum Primers?
__________________
“All that is complex is not useful; all that is useful is simple.” – Mikhail Kalashnikov
"Practice does not make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:19 AM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here's what Jason Falla (Redback One) said a few days ago:

Quote:


Due to recent events and low ammo supply we have adjusted the ammo requirements for our 2013 courses.





__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military

Last edited by ramzar; 01-26-2013 at 10:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:48 AM
HighLander51 HighLander51 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,144
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK35 View Post
I'm liking this quick 6 stage match!!!

As for alternatives: I dry fire and use airsoft at home. Airsoft is loads of fun specially on steel targets.

Reloading also helps when factory ammo is in short supply & high demand. Speaking of which, Highlander, have you used HP-38 in 9mm loads? If so, what's a good load using 115gr RN with 1.155" COL and Magnum Primers?
Several micro squads got thru Norco Running Gun in 60 - 90 minutes today because everyone is in Arizona for the Single Stack Classis and because the weather was not quite right.

Don't know about HP-38, been running TiteGroup for 15 years. 125 TC moly on top of 4 grains of TiteGroup at 1.155" goes about 1,200 fps out of the G34.

Check HP website and start with min, work up .3 grs to max, use same case for 6 each loads, check for accuracy.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-26-2013, 6:47 PM
HK35's Avatar
HK35 HK35 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The OC
Posts: 734
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Several micro squads got thru Norco Running Gun in 60 - 90 minutes today because everyone is in Arizona for the Single Stack Classis and because the weather was not quite right.

Don't know about HP-38, been running TiteGroup for 15 years. 125 TC moly on top of 4 grains of TiteGroup at 1.155" goes about 1,200 fps out of the G34.

Check HP website and start with min, work up .3 grs to max, use same case for 6 each loads, check for accuracy.
Darn, I knew I should have gone there but wife n kids are sick so no pay for me!

Haven't used TG but have Hp38 and clays. Played around with loads and 4.0-4.2 seems to be the sweet spot using HP38.
__________________
“All that is complex is not useful; all that is useful is simple.” – Mikhail Kalashnikov
"Practice does not make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-26-2013, 10:41 PM
gesundheit's Avatar
gesundheit gesundheit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,132
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

This should be helpful for those attending Jason Falla's June 2-Day Advanced Carbine (RSS level 3) class at Angeles shooting range on June 1 and 2nd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:36 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Anybody go to the Crossroads of the West Gunshows in Costa Mesa this weekend? Daily Pilot was reporting the following:
Ammo shortage may trigger gun show sales: Weekend's gun show owner says vendors from Northern California are bringing in large quantities to meet demand.
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:32 AM
HK35's Avatar
HK35 HK35 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The OC
Posts: 734
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
Anybody go to the Crossroads of the West Gunshows in Costa Mesa this weekend?
I didn't even bother. Reports http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=688779 say lines for ammo and entrance were 2-4 hours!!! As expected 9mm & 5.56/.223 ammo was in very high demand.

On a side note: I've noticed less people shooting 9mm in local range this weekend (both days) as evidenced by the types of casing on the floor. Lots of 40s and 45 however.
__________________
“All that is complex is not useful; all that is useful is simple.” – Mikhail Kalashnikov
"Practice does not make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi

Last edited by HK35; 01-28-2013 at 10:38 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-28-2013, 11:30 AM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK35 View Post
I didn't even bother. Reports http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=688779 say lines for ammo and entrance were 2-4 hours!!! As expected 9mm & 5.56/.223 ammo was in very high demand.
I figured as much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK35 View Post

On a side note: I've noticed less people shooting 9mm in local range this weekend (both days) as evidenced by the types of casing on the floor. Lots of 40s and 45 however.
I too have reserves of .40 & .45 that I have not tapped into in a few years. I guess once you deplete your 9mm you need to tap into the other calibers!

I checked LAX Firing Range for factory 9mm and it's $325 per thousand now. Before Sandy Hook it was $220! At least, it's available!
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-28-2013, 12:55 PM
HK35's Avatar
HK35 HK35 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The OC
Posts: 734
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
I checked LAX Firing Range for factory 9mm and it's $325 per thousand now. Before Sandy Hook it was $220! At least, it's available!
Ouch: we used to pay that much for 5.56 shipped to your door!!!
__________________
“All that is complex is not useful; all that is useful is simple.” – Mikhail Kalashnikov
"Practice does not make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-28-2013, 1:00 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK35 View Post
Ouch: we used to pay that much for 5.56 shipped to your door!!!
Yes and that was less than two months ago!
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-28-2013, 3:24 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here's what Kyle Defoor said a few days ago:

Quote:
With the recent spike of ammunition prices and scarce availability I have come up with an adjusted round count option of 400 total rounds for my OE 2 day pistol, carbine, or combo classes for those that want to train but supply/cost/availability of ammo is an issue.

Simplistically, some drills are simply cut in half, however there are some factors that many don’t consider which I’ve tried out with some custom and mil classes already this year. I have had no complaints so far, only positive remarks from those who I’ve done this with. Again, 400 rounds total for both days is possible. Hopefully this will help some out.
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-28-2013, 4:21 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here's what Magpul Dynamics said a few weeks ago:

Quote:

Magpul Dynamics Pricing/Equipment Changed for 2013

Magpul Dynamics Pricing and Ammunition Requirement Update

In an effort to make training more accessible in these times of increased prices and reduced availability, Magpul Dynamics has updated their pricing structure, round counts, and acceptable calibers for the 2013 training year.

Effective immediately, all three-day classes are reduced to $600 per student, and two-day classes are reduced to $450 per student. In addition, the curriculum has been revised for all pistol/carbine courses based on the changes occurring over the past year to allow for maximum training value at a slightly reduced round count. Also, we are temporarily allowing the use of pistol-caliber carbines and 22LR AR-15 pattern training rifles in the carbine classes. Please understand that there are many drawbacks to training with 22LR as opposed to normal rifle platforms, but significant training value will still exist. We expect a full return to allowing rifle-caliber rounds only in the future as the ammunition supply catches up with current demand and ammunition prices return to a reasonable level. However, we understand the financial burden placed on students with the current state of the economy and the rapid rise in retail pricing in the ammunition industry. We firmly believe in the value of quality firearms training and are committed to providing quality products and services at a fair price.

Duane, Steve, Jon, and Caylen

__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-28-2013, 4:39 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Here's what Paul Hotaling of Alias Training said today:

Quote:

Alias Training Revised Ammo Policy For 2013

Hello, Alias Training would like to announce a new set of clear and concise ammo policies that are in place until the current ammo situation corrects itself. Both Larry Vickers and Kyle Defoor have released their own statements and this one will mirror theirs exactly. It is intended to merely explain a few points a little farther and speak for Alias as a group.

- A new minimum of 400 rounds has been set for all Alias Training & Security Services associated 2-day classes. This is to be considered an absolute minimum. If this is all the ammo you can find or afford you will be good to go. All efforts will be made to minimalize the effects of shooting fewer rounds in the class. Honestly the class will be the same, you will just have the option of self-regulating your rounds fired per drill. Example; if the drill calls for four rounds, firing two will be OK. This is completely student self-regulating. Please be careful so you don’t over shoot one drill and miss out on another.

- *Very Important* If you have the standard ammo supply available this policy will not affect you at all. You will just be shooting the class normally. The instructors wanted me to be very clear on this.

- We have not had any restrictions on remanufactured ammo for years but to reiterate it is completely fine in our classes.

- .22 weapons are completely fine. Same with .22 conversion kits.

- We are working with several manufacturers & suppliers to ensure ammo availability for our classes. Some instructors have or are working on their own deals. Other suppliers are going to be helping Alias as a whole. If you cannot find ammo for a class contact Paul at Alias Training (Paul@aliastraining.com) and I will point you in the right direction.

I would like to thank the world-class instructors associated with Alias Training & Security Services for looking out for our customers during this situation.

If anyone has any questions or concerns please feel free contact me anytime day or night.

Thank you,

Paul Hotaling
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-28-2013, 5:29 PM
GM_77 GM_77 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 594
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

.22 LR kit being ok sounds real good. Since Day 2 builds on Day 1 I can see starting off with .22LR for Day 1 and then sleeping on it and using your real load on Day 2.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-28-2013, 5:34 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_77 View Post
.22 LR kit being ok sounds real good. Since Day 2 builds on Day 1 I can see starting off with .22LR for Day 1 and then sleeping on it and using your real load on Day 2.
Here's what Larry Vicker says about .22 LR weapons:

Quote:
Remember; ammo and lube is a big deal in 22's
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:19 PM
LMT4ME's Avatar
LMT4ME LMT4ME is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 1,497
iTrader: 27 / 97%
Default

Sling shot division
Open - wrist assist (i.e. wrist rocket), tube bannds, with red dot or optical sites
Limited - wrist assist, tube bands, no sites
Production - wood sling shot with rubber bands
Single stack - wire hanger frame using spit wads
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:58 PM
Bobby Hated's Avatar
Bobby Hated Bobby Hated is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,536
iTrader: 161 / 100%
Default

well ive got about 35k primers, 20k pieces .40 lead, 5k pieces .223 lead, 12lbs rifle powder, 8lbs pistol powder, 6 cases of 7 1/2 1 1/8oz federal birdshot and 3 cases of slugs.

i also have a couple thousand .40 and a thousand .223 loaded for the immediate future.

that should get me through superstition, area 2 multigun and multigun nationals. after that im gonna have to get some more birdshot and im hoping to take some primers off the prizetable as i did last year so that will help me re-cop.

plus i have to go to NYC for a month or two to work so i wont get to fire a shot during that time. so i think im good for this years season. i do however shoot alot more than you guys do so maybe i am gonna be in trouble and i dont know it yet.

i still shoot airsoft in the house a few nights a week regardless.
__________________
USPSA IPSC X3 NRG PRG LDF SWPL


Last edited by Bobby Hated; 01-30-2013 at 9:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:34 AM
beknar beknar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 88
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Using airsoft for rifle is great if you have a nice AEG that shoots in an accurate manner. The ones I have have the same fire controls as my AR15s (excepting the fact that my AR15s don't have select fire automatic).

Using airsoft pistols are another matter. The current one I have, a CM 023 isn't that accurate and doesn't hit hard enough. Maybe it's just a question of quality as this particular one was only $50, and Cyma's well known for being cheap.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:32 AM
Stan08's Avatar
Stan08 Stan08 is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,055
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

This from Stan from The Academy of Saint Crispian:

Bring what you have: .22LR etc.
You can always half ration the drills or skip repetitions.
I have two tricked out Ruger 10/22s to rent (Tapco stocks, red dot sights, etc.)
Some training is better than no training at all.
And I do offer non-kinetic classes like the emergency medicine series and SHTF lecture.
I see a rise in shotgun classes for the next 6 months to year.
__________________
Please visit my firearms training website at http://www.stcrispian.com
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-03-2013, 11:37 AM
FALCONOPS's Avatar
FALCONOPS FALCONOPS is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 140
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Ramzar, thanks for the thread. Here is what the Falcon Team has to say via today's press release:

**********

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING TRAINING AND AMMO AVAILABILITY

The Falcon Operations Group (FOG) team recognizes the need for our students to remain current on their training. Not only do our civilian students need training to protect their families, our Military, LEO and Contractor students need to stay sharp to prepare to go on duty or overseas.

The following press release is related to AMMUNTION AVIAILABILITY for FOG students who are attending one of our courses. If you are not attending our courses, ammo will not be made available to you.

Here is availability and pricing on FACTORY loaded ammunition. This is not reloaded ammo.

Factory .223 / 500 rds = $257.50
Factory 9mm / 500 rds = $149.35
Factory 40cal / 500 rds = $169.95
Factory 45cal / 500 rds = $206.00

Please add 3% if purchasing online of paying via credit card to cover our fees. These prices are the best in town and are still comparable to before the ammo scare when considering the current situation. FOG is not profiting on this ammo. This is simply a pass-through from our agreed supplier to you, the student.

Ammunition will only be provided to you the morning of the class (not shipped or prior to class), and you will be limited to purchasing a maximum of 1k rounds per class day.

Additionally, we are going to lower our round count for 1-day courses to 500 rounds per day to counteract excessive use of this now-precious commodity.

In addition to lower the round counts and providing ammo direct to our students, we are also incorporating UTM ammo for certain courses such as Home Defense to help keep the cost low and the SAFETY paramount. UTM shoots a 4" grouping at 50 yards with a 5.56 round and pistol is accurate out to 25 yards so don't worry about accuracy or the level of training dimensioning simply because we are incorporating UTM's into the picture. During UTM training, we will have a lockout on regular ammo, so there will be no chances to compromise our students’ safety.

Lastly, if you plan on attending our courses on Feb 16 (thread here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=687980) for Pistol or Feb 17 for Carbine (thread here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=688007) we suggest you hurry up and register for those courses. We will be sending an email and a link to purchase the ammo via our online system (link is here: http://falconops.net/products-page/ammunition/).

THE DEADLINE FOR AMMO ORDERS FOR THE 2/16 and 2/17 classes will be FRIDAY FEBRUARY 8th. The ammo will be picked up at the end of next week and at class the morning of just like usual.

If you have any questions please send us an email via our general email box at info@falconops.net, visit our website at www.falconops.net and please like our Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/FalconOperationsGroup.

Thank you all for your patience during this difficult time. Together, we can continue to get high quality training and drive-on with our personal goals.

Respectfully,
Falcon Team
__________________
Falcon Operations Group
http://falconops.net/
Facebook


Last edited by FALCONOPS; 02-03-2013 at 11:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-03-2013, 11:43 AM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FALCONOPS View Post
Ramzar, thanks for the thread. Here is that the Falcon Team has to say via today's press release:

**********

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING TRAINING AND AMMO AVAILABILITY

The Falcon Operations Group (FOG) team recognizes the need for our students to remain current on their training. Not only do our civilian students need training to protect their families, our Military, LEO and Contractor students need to stay sharp when on duty or overseas.

The following press release is related to AMMUNTION AVIAILABILITY for FOG students who are attending one of our courses. If you are not attending our courses, ammo will not be made available to you.

Here is availability and pricing on FACTORY loaded ammunition. This is not reloaded ammo.

Factory .223 / 500 rds = $257.50
Factory 9mm / 500 rds = $149.35
Factory 40cal / 500 rds = $169.95
Factory 45cal / 500 rds = $206.00

Please add 3% if purchasing online of paying via credit card to cover our fees.
These prices are the best in town and are still comparable to before the ammo scare when considering the current situation. FOG is not profiting on this ammo. This is simply a pass-through from our agreed supplier to you, the student.
Ammunition will only be provided to you the morning of the class (not shipped or prior to class), and you will be limited to purchasing a maximum of 1k rounds per class day.
Additionally, we are going to lower our round count for 1 day courses to 500 rounds per day to counteract excessive use of this now-precious commodity.

In addition to lower the round counts and providing ammo direct to our students, we are also incorporating UTM ammo for certain courses such as Home Defense to help keep the cost low and the SAFETY paramount. UTM shoots a 4" grouping at 50 yards with a 5.56 round and pistol is accurate out to 25 yards so don't worry about accuracy or the level of training dimensioning simply because we are incorporating UTM's into the picture. During UTM training, we will have a lockout on regular ammo, so there will be no chances to compromise our students’ safety.

Lastly, if you plan on attending our courses on Feb 16 for Pistol or Feb 17 for Carbine we suggest you hurry up and register for those courses. We will be sending an email and a link to purchase the ammo via our online system. The ammo will be picked up at the end of next week and at class the morning of just like usual.

If you have any questions please send us an email via our general email box at info@falconops.net, visit our website at www.falconops.net and please like our Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/FalconOperationsGroup.
Thank you all for your patience during this difficult time. Together, we can continue to get high quality training and drive-on with our personal goals.

Respectfully,
Falcon Team
Nice. Note that the pricing is for FOG students ONLY.

We should be hearing soon from Chris Costa (Costa Ludus) and Travis Haley (Haley Strategic Partners) regarding the ammo situation.
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military

Last edited by ramzar; 02-03-2013 at 11:49 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-04-2013, 8:17 AM
HK35's Avatar
HK35 HK35 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The OC
Posts: 734
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
Nice. Note that the pricing is for FOG students ONLY.
I'm using airsoft for the upcoming Tac1 Classes...
__________________
“All that is complex is not useful; all that is useful is simple.” – Mikhail Kalashnikov
"Practice does not make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect." - Vince Lombardi
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-06-2013, 10:34 PM
SuperSet's Avatar
SuperSet SuperSet is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 8,918
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Noticed this on Frank Proctor's FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Way-of...643728?fref=ts

"Due to recent market pressures, ammunition has become relatively scarce (and expensive). As a result, we have had to reschedule or cancel several of our mobile training courses. That said, we do have a consistent ammunition supply for our home courses in Oxford, AL, and we will provide ammunition to course students at the following rates: $360.00 per case of 1,000 for 5.56 and $240.00 per case of 1,000 for 9mm. Purchase limit is one case per student, and we will only sell the type of ammunition required for each course description. "
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-07-2013, 6:45 AM
NewGuy1911's Avatar
NewGuy1911 NewGuy1911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 548
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

It makes allot of scents for vendor/trainers to supply the ammo for classes. Trainers can buy in bulk and save there students from running all over the country.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:06 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Push for Tougher Gun Control Sparks Ammo Shortage

Quote:
"Officers say if the shortage continues it will affect the amount of time they train," Deputy Joe Lusignan, with the Benton County, Wash. Sheriff's Department, said. "That would ultimately affect crime fighting readiness."
Quote:
Meanwhile, lawmakers in California are pushing for the toughest gun laws in the nation. Democrats, who control the state legislature, unveiled 10 measures aimed at curbing gun violence.

The proposed measures include banning the sale of semi-automatic weapons with detachable magazines. Like New York, background checks for buying ammunition would also be required.

The measures would also ban possession of magazines holding more than 10 bullets, even by those who now own them legally.
California's state Senate Democrats roll out big gun control package
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:17 PM
zombiescanlearn's Avatar
zombiescanlearn zombiescanlearn is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,911
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSet View Post
Noticed this on Frank Proctor's FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Way-of...643728?fref=ts

"Due to recent market pressures, ammunition has become relatively scarce (and expensive). As a result, we have had to reschedule or cancel several of our mobile training courses. That said, we do have a consistent ammunition supply for our home courses in Oxford, AL, and we will provide ammunition to course students at the following rates: $360.00 per case of 1,000 for 5.56 and $240.00 per case of 1,000 for 9mm. Purchase limit is one case per student, and we will only sell the type of ammunition required for each course description. "
Is Frank going to have this offer for his CA classes?
__________________
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” -Buddha

"Somewhere, Something Incredible is Waiting to be Known" -Carl Sagan

"We don’t rise to the level of our expectations – we fall to the level of our training” -Archilochus, Greek Soldier
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:20 PM
SuperSet's Avatar
SuperSet SuperSet is online now
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: OC/DC
Posts: 8,918
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

It applies only to his local classes in Alabama and within driving distance. Sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-12-2013, 1:09 PM
ramzar's Avatar
ramzar ramzar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 1,352
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Going after the ammo for gun control: bullet control (taxing bullets/ammo, tracking/limiting purchases, etc.):
Overkill: If You Want to Stop Gun Violence, Start With Bullets
Quote:
Guns don’t kill people; people don’t kill people; bullets kill people. As the nation debates, again, the best way to curb gun violence, many of the questions focus on the firearms themselves. But an equally important consideration is ammunition. Roughly 10 billion rounds are manufactured in the US each year, with a weight equal to two Titanics. More to the point, it’s enough bullets to pump 32 rounds into every man, woman, and child in America.
__________________
Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills.
- Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military

Last edited by ramzar; 02-12-2013 at 1:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:44 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.