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  #1  
Old 02-11-2013, 1:22 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Default DROS submission issues (was Multiple C&R handgun purchase issues)

Is anyone else having problems with doing multiple C&R handgun purchases where it does not allow you do enter in a second one? Also do you have to deal with being billed the correct amount?

I enter the DROS as a C&R/exempt (not the normal handgun dealer sale) and under the waiting period exemption I mark it as "collector", since a person with a C&R FFL and COE is exempt from the waiting period. There is a 1 in 30 exemption, but that does not mean that the person is exempt from the waiting period. The HSC exemption is X13, but that does not apply to the waiting period. I enter in all the information on the purchaser and firearm and once that is submitted, I press the "multiple handgun purchase" at the bottom, enter in the next firearm information and when I press submit, it rejects it claiming that it is not exempt from the 1 in 30.

I have to start all over again, re-entering the purchase's id and all that and it accepts it, BUT I am then not billed the proper amount and instead charged $25, instead of $21. I then call to get a credit, which used to work better, but now they say I have to wait until I receive the invoice (better to keep my money).

They also say that no one else is complaining, but that might be a stock answer.
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Last edited by kemasa; 03-21-2013 at 2:47 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2013, 9:14 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Either no one else is having the problem or you don't care that you are getting overcharged.

This is a message that I am sending to Daniel Stewart (daniel.stewart@verizon.com) at Verizon, the company who does the DROS processing/billing. If you also have the problem, please send him email.

Due to your call this morning, I need you to document these issues AND get CA DOJ approval of your claims. It seems that you are trying to excuse problems with your software and force FFLs to do bogus workarounds.

The first CA DOJ phone number that you gave me is an old, disconnected number, which is not good that you are not giving accurate information.

A person who has a C&R FFL and CA DOJ COE is considered a collector. There are two situations which are broken with your system and you need to address both. I suspect that you are overcharging FFLs, which could lead to a class action lawsuit.

1) The collector is buying two (2) C&R handguns. The Curio/Relic button is selected. How do you specify that the person is exempt from the 10 day waiting period AND the 1 in 30 purchase limit.

You need to explain what the "collector" waiting period exemption is since you claim it is not the correct exemption to use in the case of a person who has a C&R FFL and CA DOJ COE.

The 1 in 30 exemption applies to far more that just this case and does not mean that the person is exempt from the 10 day waiting period. Below is a copy of the CA PC 27535. You stated that the 1 in 30 is supposed to be used, but this does not specify that the person is exempt from the 10 day waiting period.

I selected the curio/relic button and selected the "collector" exemption to the waiting period. I entered the first handgun and then pressed the "additional handgun", entered the second handgun and it was not until I pressed submit did it incorrectly claim that the 1 in 30 was being violated.

2) The collector is buying two (2) firearms. The first is a C&R handgun and the second is a modern handgun. The person is exempt from the waiting period and 1 in 30 for the C&R handgun. The DROS entry is a problem since it involves two types of handguns and the additional handgun can not be done with the button "additional handgun", but instead you have to start all over again, but this incorrectly billed as it does not generate the discount for the second handgun.

The CA PC states that the person is to get the discount. Failure to do this is a violation of the law.

Quote:
27535. (a) No person shall make an application to purchase more
than one handgun within any 30-day period.
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) Any law enforcement agency.
(2) Any agency duly authorized to perform law enforcement duties.
(3) Any state or local correctional facility.
(4) Any private security company licensed to do business in
California.
(5) Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid
peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section
830) of Title 3 of Part 2, and who is authorized to, and does carry a
firearm during the course and scope of employment as a peace
officer.
(6) Any motion picture, television, or video production company or
entertainment or theatrical company whose production by its nature
involves the use of a firearm.
(7) Any person who may, pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with
Section 27600), Article 3 (commencing with Section 27650), or Article
4 (commencing with Section 27700), claim an exemption from the
waiting period set forth in Section 27540.
(8) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms dealer
pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).
(9) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, and has a current
certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice
pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) of Chapter 2.
(10) The exchange of a handgun where the dealer purchased that
firearm from the person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period
immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.
(11) The replacement of a handgun when the person's handgun was
lost or stolen, and the person reported that firearm lost or stolen
prior to the completion of the application to purchase to any local
law enforcement agency of the city, county, or city and county in
which the person resides.
(12) The return of any handgun to its owner.
(13) A community college that is certified by the Commission on
Peace Officer Standards and Training to present the law enforcement
academy basic course or other commission-certified law enforcement
training.
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2013, 2:54 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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I talked to the CA DOJ about this issue (supervisor), who was able to duplicate it and admitted it was an issue, but since the current DROS system is at end of life, they don't want to make any changes to it.

This means that for a C&R multiple purchase, you need to select the exemption for the 30 days instead of collector in order to not be charged incorrectly, as well as to be able to use the "additional handgun purchase" at the bottom for the additional firearms.

Also, if you have a person with a C&R FFL and COE who is buying a C&R handgun and a modern handgun, in order to get correctly charged you need to submit the C&R handgun first and then click on additional handgun, even though the additional handgun is not a C&R, it is "exempt" for the 1 in 30, so then you need to manually enter all the information for the firearm which is on the certified list. Personally, I would start the DROS for the firearm on the certified list, write down all the information, then cancel it before submitting it, then use that information to enter it after the C&R firearm.

One thing that I will say is that it appears that the DROS support by Verizon is going downhill. Perhaps it is because those people either will have to change jobs or be out of a job come 2014.

BTW, come 2014, there will be one DROS fee for any number of firearms (long gun and/or handguns). I noticed that in the CA PC, but the person at the DOJ also confirmed that.
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2013, 2:25 PM
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Cordelia Gun Exchange Cordelia Gun Exchange is offline
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Can you link to the section in the PC you're talking about with the one DROS fee? I'd like to start working my way through it now instead of December haha.
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:27 PM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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If you search the CA PC for "2014", you will see the changes coming.

Quote:
CA PC 28240. (a) Until January 1, 2014, only one fee shall be charged
pursuant to this article for a single transaction on the same date
for the sale of any number of firearms that are not handguns, or for
the taking of possession of those firearms.
(b) Beginning January 1, 2014, only one fee shall be charged
pursuant to this article for a single transaction on the same date
for taking title or possession of any number of firearms.

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Net-FFL list maintainer.

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