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  #1  
Old 01-18-2013, 3:16 PM
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Default DOJ List

Hello,

I am seeking clarification of purchasing a handgun that is on / off the DOJ list. If the purchase is in California can the handgun be off the list since it is already in the state or not?

Any exceptions for purchasing out of state and not on the list?

I am looking at some older S&W revolvers that are not on the list or a different dash "-" version is listed but the model I am looking at.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2013, 4:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmesa005 View Post
Hello,

I am seeking clarification of purchasing a handgun that is on / off the DOJ list. If the purchase is in California can the handgun be off the list since it is already in the state or not?

Any exceptions for purchasing out of state and not on the list?

I am looking at some older S&W revolvers that are not on the list or a different dash "-" version is listed but the model I am looking at.

Thanks!
You can get an off roster gun in many ways. If it is a new gun from a dealer you can SSE it,or if a peace officer buy it as they are exempt from the roster.
If it is a consignment gun at a FFL dealer,or if you find someone that already has the gun in California,you can do a face to face PPT at a FFL.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2013, 5:07 PM
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DEPUTYBILL,

Thank you!
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2013, 2:30 PM
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I have a followup to this, and it might be good to add to the FAQ.

If I'm buying an off list gun in California from a private party, does the transfer have to take place at a single ffl?

So if I'm in SoCal and the seller is in NorCal, one of us would have to travel twice to complete the transaction at one ffl. As we can't complete our paperwork with our local ffl's and have the gun shipped. Is that correct?

Thanks.
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2013, 2:42 PM
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You are correct. For a PPT of an off roster firearm you both need to be at the FFL together. Yes there are other exceptions but the majority are done this way.
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Old 02-08-2013, 3:02 PM
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I understand there may be an exception for a LEO but wasn't sure how that would help. Say the seller was a LEO, is he able to ship or if its still two trips.

Originally I was looking on gunbroker at an out of the area (NorCal) off list gun. Glad I looked into it before bidding.
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Old 02-08-2013, 4:09 PM
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SCM,

There is a great Wiki on this site that I highly recommend you look at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Bu..._in_California

If the firearm is not on the California DOJ approved list then you need to do a face to face PPL at his or your FFL. If the firearm is on the DOJ list then you can have him send the firearm from his FFL to your FFL. Sometimes an FFL will accept a firearm mailed directly from a private seller (on the California DOJ list) but that is up to your FFL.
Just because the seller is a LEO does not give them the ability to sell you a firearm that is not on the DOJ roster by shipping it to your FFL. Must be face to face. If you are a LEO then that is a different story.

At this point you really need to find a local FFL that you want to work with and who can tell you how to handle these transactions. I have one local to me in Cameron Park that I have worked with several times and has been great to work with. It is their license on the line so you can be certain they are going to know and follow the rules.

Good luck!
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Last edited by mmesa005; 02-09-2013 at 1:43 PM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 4:48 PM
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Thanks for the link. There are so many nuances to these things. I noticed in the article it said the DOJ has been rejecting split party transfers lately. So maybe on or off roster is becoming a moot point.

The last FTF PPT I did a few months ago, the FFL had me buy a new lock from them even though the one I had was identical - it was just a different mfg. Always something.

Thanks for the advice. So guess I buy local or plan a 10 day vacation.
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Old 02-08-2013, 6:20 PM
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I bought a few Off List, Walther PPK's(all interarms) last year, including some Walther P1's. The majority of them I flew to Socal, either to Ontario, John Wayne(OC), or Burbank, from the SF Bay Area and met the seller at the FFL of their choosing, where we did the PPT paperwork and money transaction. It was face to face and the seller and I are Calif. residents. Both have to be Calif residents. Then the yep, 10 wait begins.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2013, 7:48 PM
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Did the FFL mail the guns back to you at the end of the 10 day period or did you make a 2nd trip?
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2013, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmesa005 View Post
I am seeking clarification of purchasing a handgun that is on / off the DOJ list. If the purchase is in California can the handgun be off the list since it is already in the state or not?
Only if it is a PPT, intrafamilial transfer or the buyer is exempt, or the firearm is exempt.

If the firearm is a C&R, such as over 50 years old, it does not need to be on the list.

Quote:
Any exceptions for purchasing out of state and not on the list?
Yes, intrafamilial transfers.

Quote:
I am looking at some older S&W revolvers that are not on the list or a different dash "-" version is listed but the model I am looking at.
How old? Over 50 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEPUTYBILL View Post
You can get an off roster gun in many ways. If it is a new gun from a dealer you can SSE it,or if a peace officer buy it as they are exempt from the roster.
It would be hard to make a revolver a single shot, but you can make it a single action, if the size requirement is met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCM View Post
If I'm buying an off list gun in California from a private party, does the transfer have to take place at a single ffl?
Yes. The FFL has to see the seller's ID and enter it into the DROS system.

Quote:
So if I'm in SoCal and the seller is in NorCal, one of us would have to travel twice to complete the transaction at one ffl. As we can't complete our paperwork with our local ffl's and have the gun shipped. Is that correct?
Correct, it can not be shipped. If the seller goes to the buyer, then there is only one trip, so it might be worth it for the seller to pay for the buyer's travel costs so that the seller does not have to go twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmesa005 View Post
You are correct. For a PPT of an off roster firearm you both need to be at the FFL together. Yes there are other exceptions but the majority are done this way.
Incorrect. Both the buyer and seller has to go to the same FFL, but not together. The seller could fill out the DROS worksheet and sign it, then the buyer could come later. The buyer could also fill out the DROS worksheet and then have the seller come with the firearm as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCM View Post
Thanks for the link. There are so many nuances to these things. I noticed in the article it said the DOJ has been rejecting split party transfers lately. So maybe on or off roster is becoming a moot point.
I don't know that they ever said that a split PPT was acceptable.

Quote:
The last FTF PPT I did a few months ago, the FFL had me buy a new lock from them even though the one I had was identical - it was just a different mfg. Always something.
CA requires a receipt within 30 days for the lock, so if you don't have that and the FFL won't exchange the lock, then you would perhaps need to buy one. One way around that would be to fill out the safe affidavit for CA and you have the lock for the Feds. You could buy and sell locks between friends, but some FFLs might not like handwritten receipts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmesa005 View Post
Did the FFL mail the guns back to you at the end of the 10 day period or did you make a 2nd trip?
The firearms can not be mailed. The buyer has to sign the 4473 after the waiting period ends.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2013, 3:16 PM
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Good stuff guys. That really clears up a lot of things.

To clarify, the seller needs to go to the FFL once. So if the buyer paid the sellers expense, the seller could fly out and meet the buyer at his local FFL. Then the buyer picks it up 10 days later.

Although if I have to travel it might work in my favor. Find something the missus can't live without in a vacation spot.
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2013, 3:44 PM
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If you can make the travel work why not! But then you need to bring a TSA approved carrying case to bring the handgun back with you unless your driving!

Good luck!
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