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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 02-01-2013, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRoss View Post
According to the 2010 article, "The working group identified two geographically distinct areas, LAPD’s Devonshire and the 77th Street policing districts, for inclusion in the letter program. The 77th Street area is 12 mi.2 with 175,000 residents, and Devonshire is nearly 54 mi.2, with a total population of 250,000. Both areas have large numbers of residents who are legally buying guns that are ultimately being recovered as crime guns in the possession of others."

I know after the 2010 article, the City of L.A. wanted to expand the program, but off the top of my head, I'm unsure of the current status of that expansion.
and I call BS on those numbers... Its a F&F slight of hand trick. So they are saying the 425,000 people living in those areas are more prone to illegally selling a firearm... BULLPOOP. I bet many are stolen or legally bought by criminals with no record at the time of the DROS or the sale is a straw buy to begin with...so the letter is moot. The crime is already done.

Filter out all those and I bet the ratio is just like any other area in the US.

Last edited by dieselpower; 02-01-2013 at 4:47 PM..
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  #122  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:05 PM
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They are asking for a lawsuit.
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  #123  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:17 PM
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Aww...I feel special. I got my own love letter from the city today. What a f**kin waste.
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  #124  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:27 PM
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First off i am not a lawer but whatever list they compiled to mail this out is a register and court cases have upheld that gun registers are illegal if they even mailed these yhen destroyed the list ( ya sure they did ) they would just have to look back and see the names of the people they mailed it to those days

Furthermore whatever agencies gave your info out need to be held accountable and what's with explaining the dros process .... you obviously just did that process so it is insane to " inform you about it


Need to get pro gun lawers to go have some words with them .... much sure there small words ..... i suggest four letter ones
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  #125  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:30 PM
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mail it to the nra and report harassment and reply saying, "in response to this letter... EFF YOU AND your Watch DOG!"
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  #126  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:33 PM
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Harassment no doubt

Do they send those to the illegals too?




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  #127  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:45 PM
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If only we had the resources to send a lawyer to every Politico, cop, doctor, or Insurance agent who dares ask if you own a gun. We need to fight them back.
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  #128  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:55 PM
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Your letter sent me to the toilet!!!!

While the letter is factual, the underlying methodology bares examination. How did they (prosecutor) connect the long gun registration to generate this document. How was that info shared (DOJ to LADA?), was that legal was it an intended by the legislation. They DOJ building a new database = confiscation you are in their eyesight.

I think you have a $1 million dollar lawsuit.

Last edited by majtom94; 02-01-2013 at 5:58 PM..
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  #129  
Old 02-01-2013, 6:00 PM
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I would have loved to responded to this letter with 'it's none of your business'.
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  #130  
Old 02-01-2013, 7:06 PM
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I am feeling violated.


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  #131  
Old 02-01-2013, 7:21 PM
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I would feel compelled to respond in kind, reminding them that malicious prosecution is a violation of an individuals civil rights and all those participating in conspiracy to deprive someone of their rights under color of law are exposed to the pointed end of federal litigation.
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  #132  
Old 02-01-2013, 8:24 PM
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I would send them a sarcastic response, and forward to the NRA.
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  #133  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by hiyabrad View Post
I am feeling violated.

Got the same one. Nothing like getting a "We're watching you --follow the law OR ELSE" How about they kiss my lily white gay ***. I am a law abiding citizen.. and suddenly I feel like a crook.

Can someone PLEASE SUE THEM?
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  #134  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:29 PM
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I would feel compelled to respond in kind, reminding them that malicious prosecution is a violation of an individuals civil rights and all those participating in conspiracy to deprive someone of their rights under color of law are exposed to the pointed end of federal litigation.
Oh YES YES!! That's good!! Not only is it good -- but TRUE.
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  #135  
Old 02-01-2013, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stator View Post
Keep buying firearms by the truck load and force the city to go bankrupt on the cost of those letters.

Oh wait, LA is already bankrupt.
they will call it a "Milk Tax" or some other BS so they can fund the Big Brother Letter Regime... what? not enough milk drinkers?... don't get comfy, they will add a pee pee tax - every flush funds the regime. Ya gotta pee right?

CA in the new millennium... aren't we lucky to live here
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  #136  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:20 AM
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That is big time intimidation and harassment. The City attorney sending you a letter like that when know crime has been committed. California's top Law Person sending out you're personal information to other agencies with no warrant or reason other than being a law abiding citizen. Man, I am ticked off for you. To the point that I want a letter from them. If you ever wanted to get on cable TV, O'Reilly, Hannity, or Greta would sure love to hear about this. Just Saying...
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  #137  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Beelzy View Post
Yet another reason to leave the SS# off the form.....lord knows who else has access to that info.
My LGS crossed that field out and specifically said "do not fill out this field".
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  #138  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:46 AM
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How bout we all print this letter and wipe our Arse and mail it to them ? We can even use a anti-gunner's return address.
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  #139  
Old 02-02-2013, 1:07 AM
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Received the same letter today, pick up is 2-9, handgun ppt
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  #140  
Old 02-02-2013, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 6TSicks View Post
Received the same letter today, pick up is 2-9, handgun ppt
apparently they can be efficient and punctual (even ahead of the game) when they want to be

I wonder how many tax dollars this is costing?... how many goofs are involved in this process?...
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  #141  
Old 02-02-2013, 5:47 AM
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apparently they can be efficient and punctual (even ahead of the game) when they want to be
As stated earlier, the linked RAND document indicates the letters should be sent during the waiting period, essentially in hope that the buyer will cancel the purchase and/or never pick up the firearm.

Obviously a "we are watching you" intimidation tactic.
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  #142  
Old 02-02-2013, 7:29 AM
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Obviously a "we are watching you" intimidation tactic.
I refer to it now as the"Pre-Confiscation Letter"
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  #143  
Old 02-02-2013, 7:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
As stated earlier, the linked RAND document indicates the letters should be sent during the waiting period, essentially in hope that the buyer will cancel the purchase and/or never pick up the firearm.

Obviously a "we are watching you" intimidation tactic.
yes, I understand - and like I said, they are being incredibly efficient and punctual with their tactic... he posted on 2/1/13 (actually 02:07am on the 2nd), pick up date is 2/9/13 - he already got his letter...

It's too bad they can't be that efficient on things that matter (and make a difference).
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  #144  
Old 02-02-2013, 8:46 AM
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So is there ANY legal recourse?

Had I thrown it out in the trash -- Suppose some transient went thru my trash and discovered the letter? They now know I own a gun. We have to wait until some one gets their gun stolen or killed and then prove it was b/c of this letter?
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  #145  
Old 02-02-2013, 9:22 AM
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I got one my first ever gun purchase and I get this? I called the number left message ... No call back. I like the NRA idea mentioned above.. Get them involved.
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  #146  
Old 02-02-2013, 9:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LBDamned View Post
It's too bad they can't be that efficient on things that matter (and make a difference).
Going after and threatening law abiding citizens is easier that dealing with real criminals.

Safer, too. What a cowardly act.
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  #147  
Old 02-02-2013, 10:45 AM
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Received my letter today. So let me get this straight, the Cal DOJ is knowingly sending information on firearms purchases to the LA City Attorney's Office?
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  #148  
Old 02-02-2013, 10:46 AM
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I like the NRA idea mentioned above.. Get them involved.
Let's not forget about getting the SAF involved, they have better lawyers than the NRA.


Ray
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  #149  
Old 02-02-2013, 11:45 AM
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I just sent a message to the NRA-ILA about this issue, I would strongly recommend that other forum members who are also NRA members do the same when they receive one of these letters.

As a side note I believe the gun purchase that I received this letter about is in regards to a hand gun that I purchased at Turner's in Pasadena on Wednesday, January the 30th, so they apparently don't waste any time in sending out these harassing letters since my letter is dated the 31st. I had also purchased a semi auto rifle in 22lr that same night at Turner's but I believe that is aimed at hand gun purchases for now!
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Received my letter today. So let me get this straight, the Cal DOJ is knowingly sending information on firearms purchases to the LA City Attorney's Office?
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  #150  
Old 02-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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This looks like a job for Jason Davis.



According to the study, the two neighborhoods targeted for the letters were Devonshire and 77th Street police districts. I wonder if the OP and the other Calgunners who mentioned getting the letter live there or elsewhere? Would be veddy interestink if they've expanded the program citywide, beyond the "high-crime-gun" neighborhoods where they think they have justification for this sort of thing.

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The working group identified two geographically distinct areas, LAPD’s Devonshire and the 77th Street policing districts, for inclusion in the letter program. The 77th Street area is 12 mi.2 with 175,000 residents, and Devonshire is nearly 54 mi.2, with a total population of 250,000. Both areas have large numbers of residents who are legally buying guns that are ultimately being recovered as crime guns in the possession of others.
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Last edited by Davidwhitewolf; 02-02-2013 at 11:55 AM.. Reason: Added a Linky.
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  #151  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:18 PM
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Can we file a PRAR to determine how the City Attorney's Office made unauthorized use of CLETS/AFS to generate these letters?

http://atty.lacity.org/stellent/grou...typ_023326.pdf
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  #152  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:18 PM
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Can they charge a previous owner with a misdemeanor as the letter states, if the firearm has no Dealer Record of Sale and is used in a crime, when it even wasn't required until after 1990 for person to person transactions?
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  #153  
Old 02-02-2013, 12:36 PM
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Well, I live in North Hollywood so it appears they are taking their campaign city wide!
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This looks like a job for Jason Davis.



According to the study, the two neighborhoods targeted for the letters were Devonshire and 77th Street police districts. I wonder if the OP and the other Calgunners who mentioned getting the letter live there or elsewhere? Would be veddy interestink if they've expanded the program citywide, beyond the "high-crime-gun" neighborhoods where they think they have justification for this sort of thing.
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  #154  
Old 02-02-2013, 1:11 PM
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Translation:

LA Attorney's Office: We suck at our jobs and the mayor is on our ***. So please for the love of God, don't use the gun you just bought for criminal purposes. You're making us look bad, quit it.
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  #155  
Old 02-02-2013, 3:51 PM
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While I don't agree that the city should be sending these letters, I do not see them as explicitly intimidating or threatening. They're just a 'friendly reminder' about the laws regarding transfer and ownership. Has the DOJ crossed any legal lines, provided they're recording and forwarding the DROS info only for handguns, and not long guns, that as of yet, are not registered at transfer.
Has anyone received one of these for a long gun purchase ?
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  #156  
Old 02-02-2013, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Scabbard View Post
While I don't agree that the city should be sending these letters, I do not see them as explicitly intimidating or threatening. They're just a 'friendly reminder' about the laws regarding transfer and ownership. ...
While I am certainly not a firearms litigator, and it will take other minds than mine to determine whether there is a case here worthy of action backed by CGF or other entities, I am just thinking of the parallels when applying such a letter to the South during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s -- or even more recent voter-registration drives in minority-dominated communities.

If a white Southern Sheriff and AG had sent such "friendly reminder" letters -- watch out new voter, you could be prosecuted for voter fraud if you exercise that right to vote, so y'all be careful -- to every newly registered voter during a minority-dominated voter registration drive, I think most folks would perceive the obvious intimidation -- even if the letters might have been legal on their face.

The intent may be to limit use of firearms in crimes, but if the method chosen to achieve that is to deliberately chill citizens from exercising their right to purchase a firearm -- which, in the current climate, I'm betting is arguably a political act -- there's all sorts of wrong with that. Councilman Garcetti's motion expressly noted that "success" was when letter recipients failed to complete their firearms purchase, after all.

Joe Huffman had some thoughts on this a while back with which I agree.

Ms. Tremblay & co. probably haven't given a second's thought before now to any of this; they're focused on criminals. Tough. They're public servants, after all, and they need to know we're out here. Voicemails from indignant, offended law-abiding gun owners politely detailing their annoyance might be a start.

"Ma'am, I just want to follow the law. And I'm confused. You sent me a letter right after I purchased a firearm, which is my lawful right. And obviously this letter is telling me my local prosecutor knows who I am, even though I'm a law-abiding citizen. That's pretty intimidating, don't you think? And the letter says that if I complete my firearms purchase, I might be subject to prosecution for something. And then I see that the City Council measured the success of these intimidating letters in their pilot program by how many firearms purchases were canceled after these letters were sent out. So is that why you sent me this letter? Is that what you want me to do? Do you want me to go back and cancel my purchase of the firearm I lawfully purchased to defend myself and my family? That's the way some people might read this letter. And I just want to follow the law. So please tell me what your office is telling me I should do in this letter, I'd really like to know."
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Last edited by Davidwhitewolf; 02-02-2013 at 5:28 PM.. Reason: Fixed the link to Joe Huffman's post. Added a final paragraph and edited it a bit.
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  #157  
Old 02-02-2013, 5:13 PM
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I got that same letter.
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  #158  
Old 02-02-2013, 5:16 PM
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Why should they even be sending the info on hand gun purchases? I thought that info was simply so the state could verify whether you presented a criminal risk in purchasing a hand gun, not as an info data base for the local political tools! If they've violated state law then they need to be sued!
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Originally Posted by Rusty Scabbard View Post
While I don't agree that the city should be sending these letters, I do not see them as explicitly intimidating or threatening. They're just a 'friendly reminder' about the laws regarding transfer and ownership. Has the DOJ crossed any legal lines, provided they're recording and forwarding the DROS info only for handguns, and not long guns, that as of yet, are not registered at transfer.
Has anyone received one of these for a long gun purchase ?
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  #159  
Old 02-02-2013, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Scabbard View Post
While I don't agree that the city should be sending these letters, I do not see them as explicitly intimidating or threatening. They're just a 'friendly reminder' about the laws regarding transfer and ownership. Has the DOJ crossed any legal lines, provided they're recording and forwarding the DROS info only for handguns, and not long guns, that as of yet, are not registered at transfer.
Has anyone received one of these for a long gun purchase ?
I suspect that's what they are banking on - people treating as a benign issue that is no harm... slowly but surely they continue to push the envelope.

Personally I am concerned that they have the info - but more importantly, that they sent the letter publicly (mail isn't necessarily private, it can fall into anyone's hands - by mistake or on purpose).
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  #160  
Old 02-02-2013, 6:55 PM
M1Dude M1Dude is offline
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Instead of using taxpayer funds to send "gun reminder letters" to law abiding citizens, L.A. should use the money to help the homeless and mentally ill that live on its streets. L.A. has a problem alright, and it isn't law abiding gun owners. L.A.'s problems are legendary and it all starts with wasteful politicians, idiot bureaucrats, etc.
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