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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalinemedic View Post

If we have pro-gun people (in this very thread!) who won't join NRA because...
We have pro-gun people (in this very thread!) that would not give to the NRA if no matter who ran the NRA. Because they will always be able to find something they don't like.
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  #122  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalinemedic View Post
"You don't like walnut stocks and blued steel actions, you get the hell out!" That kind of thing.
Just out of curiosity, where did you pick that notion up?
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  #123  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:37 PM
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Just posted this on my FB actually. Please do the same.


Quote:
Join the Firearms Policy Coalition today.

If you live in California, your state representative for the Firearms Policy Coalition is the Calguns Foundation. Visit their website and become informed about issues that affect your 2A Right. They have great resources for all law abiding CA gun owners and the members are more than willing to answer any questions to help you understand our complex laws in CA.
And I posted this link along with that statement- http://www.firearmspolicy.org/

If you guys have any suggestions or corrections, please let me know and I will add them.
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  #124  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalinemedic View Post
Excellent question.

I never joined because, being a fan of, and only of, "evil black rifles" and "tupperware pistols," I didn't feel like the NRA was a good spokesman for me, or cared what I thought.

"You don't like walnut stocks and blued steel actions, you get the hell out!" That kind of thing.

Now, SAF on the other hand...
Have you ever even read their magazine? Or do you just sit around making up justifications for not doing things?

American Rifleman is full of tactical crap. Join. You'll have an ARgasm
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  #125  
Old 01-31-2013, 2:42 PM
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Just wanted to say "thank you!" for the support of FPC.

We've got such a strong and growing body of excellent representatives throughout the US, from Gene Hoffman here in California to Keith Morgan of the new member WVCDL. Vires ex Pluribus!

-Brandon
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  #126  
Old 01-31-2013, 3:00 PM
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Thanks wildhawker, I now belong to calguns and cal-ffl because i have seen results and don't mind putting some money behind people who get results adn don't give excuses.
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  #127  
Old 01-31-2013, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gorenut View Post
completely agree. I love how he shoves all the blame to the 1A, believing in censorship in video games and movies. If you guys haven't seen Henson Ong speak in CT yet, you guys should check it out. If only LaPierre made the points he made. LaPierre essentially just pushed anti-gun people to believe that gun owners are pretty much exactly what they had already stereotyped.
Exactly
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  #128  
Old 01-31-2013, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalinemedic View Post
Excellent question.

I never joined because, being a fan of, and only of, "evil black rifles" and "tupperware pistols," I didn't feel like the NRA was a good spokesman for me, or cared what I thought.

"You don't like walnut stocks and blued steel actions, you get the hell out!" That kind of thing.

Now, SAF on the other hand...
Odd...

Then this boils down to why are you ignorant about the NRA's primary focus -- lobbying politicians? Is it the NRA's fault for not communicating or for you not listening? Perhaps both?

I chuckle when I page through American Rifleman and see page after page of old, bloated white people at some sort of gala event. On the other hand I am well aware that when it comes to hardcore politics/lobbying, the NRA is the only game in town -- and that includes the SAF.
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  #129  
Old 01-31-2013, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RobGR View Post
No, it is that LaPierre divides us. Why is it incorrect to suggest we would like a better leader and better spokesman to represent us? It's not. There are a lot of LEOs that have grown weary of the NRA specifically because of LaPierre and I don't blame them. I'm sure anti-2A would froth at the opportunity to ridicule a change at the top, but if that new person comes out swinging with intelligent and rational arguments, then I would be all for it. However, we all know that at the end of the day intelligent and rational arguments mean absolutely nothing in this climate of hysteria.

I contribute to Calguns and I fully support the current Firearms Policy Coalition (just got an email actually of a new member, The West Virginia Citizens Defense League ), it is absolutely the way to go! Independent and organized with a national Pro 2A agenda. Hmmm, so who will our spokesperson be?
You're still making a huge mistake if you're not an NRA member...
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  #130  
Old 01-31-2013, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
I think the NRA needs multiple representatives speaking for it, including an articulate woman. The country has changed demographically and I hear a lot of " old white guys" bashing. Like the republican party, the NRA can't be seen as being out if touch with the "new" America. People need to feel welcome and get drawn into the positive aspects of firearm ownership. (disclaimer: female poster here)
I agree BIG TIME.

I still want to see the very best leading the NRA but that does not mean there still can't be diversity -- great diversity.

I also think the NRA has things fouled-up with a "president" and the an "executive vice president" who is also the "chief executive office." The top job should either be the chairman/CEO or president/CEO. Whomever fills this position cannot be a ceremonial figurehead! They need to lead from the front and they need to be the NRA's top spokesperson.

WLP might be a superb lobbiest and strategist but he's not getting the job done from a PR perspective. He should have KILLED at that senate hearing. Instead, other people had to carry the water to the fire.
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  #131  
Old 01-31-2013, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by warbird View Post
... at the moment the odds are very much against the NRA ...




Stop watching MSLSD.
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  #132  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:35 PM
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WLP is a stand up guy, tough job.....
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  #133  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:40 PM
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So if he was a great speaker, then Feinstein/Boxer/Shummer/Piers Morgon would be convinced, and become a pro-gun?

LOL, dude, get serious.
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  #134  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by warbird View Post
Thanks wildhawker, I now belong to calguns and cal-ffl because i have seen results and don't mind putting some money behind people who get results adn don't give excuses.
Fear of the NRA is what keeps the Dems from pushing back too hard. They know that the next election will possibly be their last if they push hard against the NRA. The Dems care only for their jobs.

http://youtu.be/-ywCjJr5PUk

part2

http://youtu.be/-NFFIYIWu9k
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  #135  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:18 PM
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One thing that pissed me off is that he couldn't admit to us having a loophole problem with Gun shows. I personally think all gun show private sales should go through a FFL. If we speak up and say yes that's the problem then I feel like they will leave the Gun ban alone. Why not fix these loop holes, why allow criminals to purchase these weapons so easy and then when they kill people we get blamed for it!!!! Like he said in the hearing " We need to honest with our selfs" but when they asked him about the loopholes he tried to brush it off just to save something that can hurt us.
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  #136  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:19 PM
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Am I the only guy here that thinks (Mr.) Colion Noir would do a great job as NRA spokesman?
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  #137  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:44 PM
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Am I the only guy here that thinks (Mr.) Colion Noir would do a great job as NRA spokesman?
He would make a good spokesman.
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  #138  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDigitalPicasso View Post
One thing that pissed me off is that he couldn't admit to us having a loophole problem with Gun shows. I personally think all gun show private sales should go through a FFL. If we speak up and say yes that's the problem then I feel like they will leave the Gun ban alone. Why not fix these loop holes, why allow criminals to purchase these weapons so easy and then when they kill people we get blamed for it!!!! Like he said in the hearing " We need to honest with our selfs" but when they asked him about the loopholes he tried to brush it off just to save something that can hurt us.
Why should he admit to a nonexistent problem? The last person that should be speaking for gun rights is one who does so because of feelings.
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  #139  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I mention this only for it's ability to make people think.

Before Sandy Hook there were 8 million licenses to carry but only 4 million NRA members (of which I am one.)

That's not good. Why is that and I ask that question seriously?
Because they are seriously out of touch and not savvy enough to realize it.

Let me preface by saying that I'm a gun owner, NRA member, and lifelong liberal New Yorker. I went down the rabbit hole, so to speak, when I applied for a NYC premise permit circa 2006. I have *no* issues with standard capacity magazines, AR-15's (don't own one) or private sales. I am against "universal background checks", etc., etc. I'm also a SAF member, have donated to CGF, member of NYSRPA and currently one of the defendants in the Kwong v. Bloomberg case sponsored by SAF.

I'm an NRA member and I feel seriously disenfranchised. I have not once given my spouse any of my copies of American Rifleman to read for fear that the rants and rhetoric in those pages would literally make her gag. This woman was shocked to learn when we were dating that I owned firearms and championed the cause. She knows I'm a member but when the subject comes up I only talk about the likes of...

Alan Gura and Gene. I've shown her videos of Alan Gura speaking and she's still skeptical but *engaged*. She's starting to understand the civil rights argument even though EBRs maker her nervous. I would never show her a WLP speech or a video of Ted Nugent. Alan Gura and Gene come off as easy going cerebral nerds who are firm and articulate but don't rant or lecture.

The majority of the population has shifted from rural areas to the urban cities but the NRA hasn't seemed to notice or care. Thus, the stagnant 4 million over the years. I've also seen this dripping sarcasm and condescending attitude in the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association Newsletters which is written by a NRA board member. Talk of how city folk don't know "freedom" and how the Upstate folk are true patriots. It's no way to attract new blood and pisses me off.

I'm an NRA member because I *get* your sig about not being a member. New gun owners though will find the initial shock of how the NRA deals with the public and how they articulate their message an impossible and repugnant pill to swallow.

The NRA needs to learn the true definition of CYA. It's not: Cover Your ***. It's: Can You Articulate. You and Alan have it down cold. The NRA not so much.

Does that make sense, Gene?

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  #140  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:19 PM
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I didn't read this entire thread, But I did watch the proceedings. IMO, Wayne blew it. Refusing to admit that closing the gunshow loophole is the ONLY way under the law to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. 74%of NRA members support this. Including myself. It made him look like a fool. It is unlikely that anyone is going to listen to him now about any subject. My Congressman is in favor of an all out ban. And the one man I was counting on couldn't compromise or show common sense... We are fked...
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  #141  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:22 AM
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I probably agree that universal background checks should have been one concession the NRA could have made and maintained face with both its more liberal members and the general public.

However, let's not blow up a problem that mostly exists in the mind of the anti's. And let's say I am even wrong about that statement, how do you enforce a universal background check without full blown registration? Would you support registration to make mandatory universal background checks successful? Think about it, without registration to trace ownership private sales without background checks could still occur, it would just become another crime that they can't and won't prosecute for.
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  #142  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDigitalPicasso View Post
One thing that pissed me off is that he couldn't admit to us having a loophole problem with Gun shows. I personally think all gun show private sales should go through a FFL. If we speak up and say yes that's the problem then I feel like they will leave the Gun ban alone. Why not fix these loop holes, why allow criminals to purchase these weapons so easy and then when they kill people we get blamed for it!!!! Like he said in the hearing " We need to honest with our selfs" but when they asked him about the loopholes he tried to brush it off just to save something that can hurt us.
DAYUM!

THERE IS NO "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!"

If you buy a gun that is the private property of a private, non-licensed seller, no background check is necessary. That's the way the law is written. You want to change it, fine but there is no freaking "loophole!"
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  #143  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gratefuldog View Post
Am I the only guy here that thinks (Mr.) Colion Noir would do a great job as NRA spokesman?
He needs seasoning, but he would be great in a few years...
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  #144  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by diginit View Post
I didn't read this entire thread, But I did watch the proceedings. IMO, Wayne blew it. Refusing to admit that closing the gunshow loophole is the ONLY way under the law to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. 74%of NRA members support this. Including myself. It made him look like a fool. It is unlikely that anyone is going to listen to him now about any subject. My Congressman is in favor of an all out ban. And the one man I was counting on couldn't compromise or show common sense... We are fked...
The is no "gun show loophole." That is pure sewage. You want to institute universal background checks? Roll the dice. But there is no freaking "loophole."

There is absolutely no proof that such checks keep guns out of the hands of killers. That's why many reject the attempts to add even more such laws. I personally support background checks even though I seriously doubt they will do a darned thing (killers steal guns or buy them on the black market), I realize that those that are caught are typically not prosecuted and I am concerned about a national database of gun owners and their guns.

There is no "loophole" though.
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  #145  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:40 AM
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If a politico said "we need to do a background check on the sales of ALL firearms including those between two private parties", I could respect that.

Characterizing the existing law (where two private, non-licensed individuals can transfer the ownership of a firearm without a background check) as a "gun show loophole" is pure crapola.
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  #146  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
I didn't read this entire thread, But I did watch the proceedings. IMO, Wayne blew it. Refusing to admit that closing the gunshow loophole is the ONLY way under the law to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. 74%of NRA members support this. Including myself. It made him look like a fool. It is unlikely that anyone is going to listen to him now about any subject. My Congressman is in favor of an all out ban. And the one man I was counting on couldn't compromise or show common sense... We are fked...
If you're already defeated, why not sell any guns/ammo you might own?
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  #147  
Old 02-01-2013, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gratefuldog View Post
Am I the only guy here that thinks (Mr.) Colion Noir would do a great job as NRA spokesman?
No you are not.

+1 for Colion Noir





From what I've seen of Ben Shapiro, he could be a great
candidate as well:




Noble

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  #148  
Old 02-01-2013, 2:17 AM
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No you are not.

+1 for Colion Noir





From what I've seen of Ben Shapiro, he could be a great
candidate as well:




Noble

.
Colion needs to earn his law degree and then go to work for a hardcore PR/lobbying firm for about 3-5 years. THEN he would be ready to face the gauntlet that WLP did the other day. And he would kill...
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  #149  
Old 02-01-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by L.A. Native View Post
I'm a member of the NRA and firm believer in gun rights so it kills me when I see the creepy and out of touch LaPierre out in public speaking for us.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
I know he's the vice President of the NRA but is there anyway we can hire a more eloquent and quick minded speaker? He's nothing but fodder for the anti- gun pundits.
I give good hard earned money to the NRA, all I ask is that they represent us well. In the meantime I'll do my part and contact my representatives and continue to donate money to the cause.


Agree with OP -

Less chest pounding, and useless attacks and more of this…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Wi6gZU01yF8
Don’t get me wrong – this fight could and should get down and dirty, if need be but, there is no denying that there is a huge public relations component to this battle, and the NRA just isn’t relating to the public effectively. My 2 cents ~
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  #150  
Old 02-01-2013, 3:02 PM
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Everyone keeps saying the NRA isn't relating to the public well... When half the public is like talking to a brick wall, what do you suggest they do? Smile and nod?
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  #151  
Old 02-01-2013, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diginit View Post
I didn't read this entire thread, But I did watch the proceedings. IMO, Wayne blew it. Refusing to admit that closing the gunshow loophole is the ONLY way under the law to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. 74%of NRA members support this. Including myself. It made him look like a fool. It is unlikely that anyone is going to listen to him now about any subject. My Congressman is in favor of an all out ban. And the one man I was counting on couldn't compromise or show common sense... We are fked...
Show me a credible source where 74% of NRA members support such a thing. A very simple request.
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Old 02-01-2013, 5:32 PM
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Show me a credible source where 74% of NRA members support such a thing. A very simple request.
Exactly.
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  #153  
Old 02-01-2013, 6:22 PM
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Most criminals are not buying person to person at guns shows, there are real statistics about that. Criminals buy from other criminals steal the guns or through straw purchases.

There are so many laws on the books already, why aren't they enforced instead of making more laws to make some people feel good. Non of the guns used in the mass shoitings came from gun shows ... let the NRA stand firm for our rights, if universal background check passes so be it and of course we will all follow any laws passed, the crininals will not and violent crime will continue.

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  #154  
Old 02-01-2013, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kick Z tail out View Post
Everyone keeps saying the NRA isn't relating to the public well... When half the public is like talking to a brick wall, what do you suggest they do? Smile and nod?
Half the public...? Hell, they can't even get half of the gun owners.
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  #155  
Old 02-01-2013, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kick Z tail out View Post
Everyone keeps saying the NRA isn't relating to the public well... When half the public is like talking to a brick wall, what do you suggest they do? Smile and nod?
I think I'll just point you back to the more obvious part of your own observation, and let it go at that... "Everyone keeps saying the NRA isn't relating to the public well"
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  #156  
Old 02-02-2013, 3:30 PM
dfletcher dfletcher is offline
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucerog...r-gun-control/

"The gun control debate is clearly one of the most contentious and controversial issues in America today. And the battle over gun control is now being waged through intensive media campaigns from both sides of the political spectrum to influence public opinion and to assert pressure on policy makers. So who’s winning?"

"We found that the NRA and the pro-gun rights voices are winning the influence battle and will continue to be strong and more influential if the pro gun control voice remains fragmented."

"The debate is an influence battle between President Barack Obama’s Democrats and Wayne LaPierre’s NRA."

"The pro-gun rights voice is rapidly gaining influence while the pro-gun control voice has tapered in recent weeks. Momentum is shifting and the gun control debate is becoming a platform benefiting gun rights advocates."

"The pro–gun control group is fragmented whereas the pro-gun rights voice is united and strong. Of the top influencers on the pro-gun rights side, the majority of the most prominent voices are from the NRA."


Hanging together seems to be proving valuable.

I do have a disagreement with the article, of sorts. Senator Blumenthal of CT asserts he has an "A" rating from NRA and I don't think that's true. The Senator is a known liar, having been caught publicly lying about his "VietNam service".

Last edited by dfletcher; 02-02-2013 at 3:33 PM..
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  #157  
Old 02-02-2013, 6:45 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
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Originally Posted by makarov54 View Post
Most criminals are not buying person to person at guns shows, there are real statistics about that. Criminals buy from other criminals steal the guns or through straw purchases.

There are so many laws on the books already, why aren't they enforced instead of making more laws to make some people feel good. Non of the guns used in the mass shoitings came from gun shows ... let the NRA stand firm for our rights, if universal background check passes so be it and of course we will all follow any laws passed, the crininals will not and violent crime will continue.

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  #158  
Old 02-02-2013, 7:02 PM
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The last few times I've seen him speak, he's been terrible. In the post Newtown press conference, he was like a zombie. In the hearings where Ted Cruz threw him softballs, he came close to fumbling his response, and got a bit off track.
He used to write well (I'm not sure how his writing is now), but he certainly isn't very telegenic at this point, and seems to miss opportunities to make good points, making him an ineffective spokesperson.
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  #159  
Old 02-02-2013, 8:00 PM
otteray otteray is offline
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
So if he was a great speaker, then Feinstein/Boxer/Shummer/Piers Morgon would be convinced, and become a pro-gun?

LOL, dude, get serious.
Maybe not a great orator; but did you notice Newtown, Conn. is listening and heeding his advice of arming good guys even after talk show hosts like Morgan and other anti gun zealots pooh-poohed the idea as crazy? Yes, seriously.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:42 AM
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makarov54 makarov54 is offline
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Realize they can indeed be one in the same.
So? They don't need guns shows to do a straw purchase at!
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