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  #1  
Old 01-31-2013, 5:53 PM
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Default AR-15 Primers - Advice?

liffs:
email from Natchez saying primers were in stock

ordered 10K Tula "Small Rifle Magnum" primers
(TULA makes three different 'small' primers)

3-4 weeks later they arrived

boxes are marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem", not "Magnum"

called and waited on hold thru 52 other calls (keep working on the bench)

rep says, "hmmm...let me ask someone about that"

comes back on the line and says...
"We noticed that and called our supplier (Tula?) and they said 'THOSE ARE REALLY MAGNUM PRIMERS even though the box isn't marked as such'. So, don't worry about reloading them for your AR-15".

I sent them an email asking to put that in writing.

Guess I'll try a few and see what happens reloading .223, not max 5.56 NATO loads.

What say you?

btw: I like doing business with Natchez.
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  #2  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:03 PM
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First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

The .223 Remington primers are for semi-auto.

So you should be in the clear.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

The .223 Remington primers are for semi-auto.

So you should be in the clear.
Much appreciated, friend.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:08 PM
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No problem. All I use is Tula and I have watched them change model name after model name. They even came out with 5.56 Nato primers.
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.

The .223 Remington primers are for semi-auto.

So you should be in the clear.
joelogic no offense but this is false information. I think you just didn't word it properly. Tula/Wolf (same company, exact same primers) make 3 different small rifle primers:
For Tula the numbers are as follows:
KVB223 = small rifle primers
KVB556M = small rifle magnum primers
KVB223M = most people call these "AR15 primers" ---they are the exact same thing as small rifle primers however they have a harder cup. They are NOT magnum. The serial number IS misleading. These are ideal for AR15s as they have a floating firing pin and can dimple softer cup small rifle primers, and in rare cases cause slam-fires.

*EDIT* i've seen several people make this same mistake with Wolf/Tula primers over the years. This really needs to be a sticky or something. IDK. I hate to see how often it gets mixed up because the naming and serial numbers are very misleading :/

Last edited by morrow; 01-31-2013 at 6:16 PM..
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:13 PM
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That explains it then.

The Tula "Small Rifle .223 Rem" primers must be their latest and greatest.

They told Natchez they were actually "magnum" primers.

Hope my AR likes'em. I'll watch the cups for any signs of volcanic activity.

Slam fires....well, we don't want those.
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Last edited by doc540; 01-31-2013 at 6:15 PM..
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:17 PM
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Which part is incorrect?
The magnums are actually magnum?
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
Which part is incorrect?
The magnums are actually magnum?
Part of what you said was false:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
First, Tula's Magnum primers were not hotter, they just had a stronger cup.
That was incorrect. It depends which one you buy. KVB556M = magnum and KVB223M = stronger cup non-magnum.
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc540 View Post
That explains it then.

The Tula "Small Rifle .223 Rem" primers must be their latest and greatest.

They told Natchez they were actually "magnum" primers.

Hope my AR likes'em. I'll watch the cups for any signs of volcanic activity.

Slam fires....well, we don't want those.
They are not the latest and greatest. They've been around for years and years. If the model on your box is in fact KVM223M then you did not receive what you originally ordered (small rifle magnum primers as you said). This is a common mistake that happens with certain suppliers and especially during buying crazes where they are moving a lot of stock. Those will however, even though they aren't magnum, will work wonderfully for your AR15 unless you're using some type of magnum primer specific load.

Does your receipt list the part# or a lengthier description of what you actually ordered? Or does it just say "small rifle magnum primers"?
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:23 PM
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So, the one's I received and marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem" are ok to use in my AR?

I'm only loading 26gr of Varget or 24gr of IMR 3031 under 50gr soft points.

Natchez claims to have called their distributor (I'm guessing Tula) and were told even though the boxes are marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem", they are magnum primers.

That's my basic question.

Order says: "TLKVB223M SMALL MAGNUM RIFLE PRIMERS"

The box says different.
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Last edited by doc540; 01-31-2013 at 6:25 PM..
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc540 View Post
So, the one's I received and marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem" are ok to use in my AR?

Natchez claims to have called their distributor (I'm guessing Tula) and were told even though the boxes are marked "Small Rifle .223 Rem", they are magnum primers.

That's my basic question.
I got my order of Tula primers 2 weeks ago from PVI. The box are labeled "small rifle 223 rem" as yours are. These are not magnum primers. They are normal small rifle primers with a harder cup. They will work perfectly in your AR15 unless you have some type of magnum specific load worked up that you use.

Natchez was wrong telling you they're magnums. They most likely say the "M" in the serial# and assumed magnum. Tula/Wolf have a bad serial number system.

In addition these primers are the ones Tula has shipped recently to suppliers. We most likely have the same lot# or similar.
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:29 PM
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This is goes back to Wolf labeling, from my own testing and other forum discussion the magnum primers were not any hotter they just had stronger cups to withstand the pressure. Wolf only introduced Small rifle and small magnum at the beginning and they received a lot of concerns regarding slam fires and started telling people to use the magnums for semi-autos. This is why they started with the different names. 5.56 Nato and .223 Rem Primers.

For most other brands the magnums are hotter but not with wolf/tula. Their sr/srm primers chrono the same speed for a given load. And the magnums can still have a hard time lighting milsurp powder.

Feel free to disagree. But you can tell even from Tula's response that the magnums were the .223 rem primers and that they are the same.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelogic View Post
This is goes back to Wolf labeling, from my own testing and other forum discussion the magnum primers were not any hotter they just had stronger cups to withstand the pressure. Wolf only introduced Small rifle and small magnum at the beginning and they received a lot of concerns regarding slam fires and started telling people to use the magnums for semi-autos. This is why they started with the different names. 5.56 Nato and .223 Rem Primers.

For most other brands the magnums are hotter but not with wolf/tula. Their sr/srm primers chrono the same speed for a given load. And the magnums can still have a hard time lighting milsurp powder.

Feel free to disagree. But you can tell even from Tula's response that the magnums were the .223 rem primers and that they are the same.
There is no disagreement here. I am simply providing correct information. The OP got the normal small rifle primers with harder cups (non-magnum).

Again, for wolf and tula (wolf has slightly different model#s)
Quote:
KVB223 = small rifle primers
KVB556M = small rifle magnum primers
KVB223M = most people call these "AR15 primers" ---they are the exact same thing as small rifle primers however they have a harder cup. They are NOT magnum. The serial number IS misleading. These are ideal for AR15s as they have a floating firing pin and can dimple softer cup small rifle primers, and in rare cases cause slam-fires.
That's just facts, man. If you get the KVB556M those are in fact real deal magnum primers. They are hotter than KVB223 or KVB223M.

If you want to disagree with the facts, which you aren't really doing because you keep only talking about 2 of the 3 primers, you're wrong. There is a hotter small rifle magnum primer provided by Wolf and Tula for purchase.

*EDIT* what you most likely tested between was the KVB223 and KVB223M and you thought that the KVB223M were magnums due to their retarded model numbering system by Wolf/Tula. Those 2 models as i've said several times are both non-magnum and will yield the same results. If you use the KVB556M it's a whole different ballgame as those are in fact magnum primers.

Last edited by morrow; 01-31-2013 at 6:40 PM..
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:36 PM
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I'll load some up and test them.

If they work, the Dillon 550's gonna get busy.
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Last edited by doc540; 01-31-2013 at 6:39 PM..
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:38 PM
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Yep doc540, looks like we have the same lot#
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
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Yep doc540, looks like we have the same lot#
They've run well in your AR?
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:43 PM
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They've run well in your AR?
Yes, wonderfully. They will work fine for you unless you have some magnum specific load...which would be somewhat odd. The vast majority of loads for AR15s are for non-magnum primers. I am sure you will be fine.

Good purchase!
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, wonderfully. They will work fine for you unless you have some magnum specific load...which would be somewhat odd. The vast majority of loads for AR15s are for non-magnum primers. I am sure you will be fine.

Good purchase!
Thanks

Again, I'm only loading 26gr of Varget or 24gr of IMR 3031 under 50gr soft points.

The way things are now, when I get an email that something's come in stock, I jump on it pronto.

Just went through about 150, thirty round AR mags to fund my reloading supplies and a bolt gun in .223.

I went from NO small rifle primers to 10K. That's a good feeling.
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:55 PM
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PART# UPC-BOX UPC-CASE TYPE
KVB223 814950018059 814950019056 SMALL RIFLE Standard Rifle
KVB556M 814950018066 814950019063 SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM 5.56 NATO Harder cup
KBV223M 814950018073 814950019070 SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM Magnum Rifle Harder cup magnum
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Last edited by nothing4u; 01-31-2013 at 7:10 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-31-2013, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
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PART# UPC-BOX UPC-CASE TYPE
KVB223 814950018059 814950019056 SMALL RIFLE Standard Rifle
KVB556M 814950018066 814950019063 SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM 5.56 NATO Harder cup
KBV223M 814950018073 814950019070 SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM Magnum Rifle Harder cup magnum
That info you copy/pasted i've seen on other forums and adds to the confusion, especially due to the poor descriptions.

Did you copy/paste that? or did you type it? Where did you copy/paste it from? I ask because one of the serial numbers has the V and B backwards.
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Old 01-31-2013, 7:01 PM
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Its cut and paste, it's originally from this website

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...Berdan-Primers

I got the same primers as the Doc540, and could not figure out which they were. I originally thought PVI sent the wrong primers until I searched for the UPC. The boxes do not have any of the listed Part# KVB**** marked on them which adds to the confusion.
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Last edited by nothing4u; 01-31-2013 at 7:16 PM.. Reason: Mistake, pics are Doc's not OP
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Old 01-31-2013, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
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Its cut and paste
From where exactly? Whoever or whatever company wrote that on their website wrote a part number wrong, which is funny.

And yes again those descriptions are very misleading.
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Old 01-31-2013, 7:10 PM
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It' even like that from Tula's website http://tulammousa.com/products/non-c...mers/#more-205

KVB223 SMALL RIFLE Standard Rifle
KVB556M SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM 5.56 NATO
KBV223M SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM Magnum Rifle
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Old 01-31-2013, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothing4u View Post
It' even like that from Wolfs website http://tulammousa.com/products/non-c...mers/#more-205

KVB223 SMALL RIFLE Standard Rifle
KVB556M SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM 5.56 NATO
KBV223M SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM Magnum Rifle
Hahaha that's priceless. In addition to having purely stupid part #s and descriptions, they actually misspell a serial number on their own website

Thanks for the entertainment

That being said all I buy pretty much is Wolf/Tula.
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Old 01-31-2013, 8:02 PM
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Been loading for yeas and tried a few different primers for my ar and mini 14.Most times i use h335 or 844 powders both specify a magnum primer so that is what i try to use.I have used winchesters that say for either magnum or standard and had no problem firing off any powders.All worked well.I have used cci magnums and rem magnums too again without problems.

I have not used a mil spec primer for semi autos ever and never had a problem with slam fires or firing when chambering a round.IMO if this were to occur the problem is not with the primer its with the gun itself and may need some work.
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Old 01-31-2013, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15robert View Post
Been loading for yeas and tried a few different primers for my ar and mini 14.Most times i use h335 or 844 powders both specify a magnum primer so that is what i try to use.I have used winchesters that say for either magnum or standard and had no problem firing off any powders.All worked well.I have used cci magnums and rem magnums too again without problems.

I have not used a mil spec primer for semi autos ever and never had a problem with slam fires or firing when chambering a round.IMO if this were to occur the problem is not with the primer its with the gun itself and may need some work.
Same here. I've only used regular small rifle primers for my AR15 until recently. The harder cup 223 primers from Wolf/Tula seem to be the only thing available lately in the small rifle primer field!
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2013, 12:02 AM
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heh I bought 10k of the 556 mag and the box says 223 something or other...I don't care, I just loaded and shot them. Whatever works.
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Old 03-19-2013, 6:16 AM
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Wolf and Tula are not the same even though they are made in the same factory.
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Old 03-19-2013, 7:11 AM
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Several hundred downrange in both the SBR and the bolt gun without any problems.
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Old 03-19-2013, 8:34 AM
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The Russians are just screwing with the US consumer. NOBODY knows or can understand which is which. Payback for losing the Cold War...Just use the starting load and be observant as to what the brass looks like after shooting. With everything OOS or costing 4 times what it did, you should be picking up every piece of brass, so look at it while it's in your paw.
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Old 03-19-2013, 9:20 AM
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Brass is looking just fine, no problems with these Tula primers.
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