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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-30-2013, 1:47 PM
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Default 2013 CA AB 187 Bonta Ammunition Tax (appears DEAD 5/24)

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...arch_keywords=

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

AB 187, as introduced, Bonta. Ammunition.
Existing law prohibits that a handgun ammunition vendor, as defined, from selling, offering for sale, or displaying for sale, any handgun ammunition in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser without the assistance of the vendor or employee thereof. Existing law requires, subject to exceptions, that handgun ammunition vendors obtain a thumbprint and other information from ammunition purchasers, as specified.
This bill would state the intent of the Legislature to enact legislation that would establish a tax on all ammunition sold in retail stores and gun shows in the state and direct tax revenue to a fund to prevent crime in high-crime areas of the state.
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Vote: MAJORITY Appropriation: NO Fiscal Committee: NO Local Program: NO
Bill Text
The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

SECTION 1.
It is the intent of the Legislature that would enact legislation to establish a tax on all ammunition sold in retail stores and gun shows in the state and direct the revenue from the tax to a high-crime prevention fund for crime prevention efforts in high-crime areas of the state.

(That is, still a 'spot' bill, detailed text to come)
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2013, 2:48 PM
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reads like a poll tax
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  #3  
Old 01-30-2013, 3:18 PM
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So -only- retail stores and gun shows get taxed? Yeah this wont fly.
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Old 01-30-2013, 3:44 PM
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They tax cigarets supposedly for health treatment reasons. They could use the new health car laws to regulate ammunition because it contains lead and combustible chemicals. Use tax and NOT ammo tax per se.
They are throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.
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  #5  
Old 01-30-2013, 3:52 PM
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Regressive, and hurts minorities of low-income most exposed to crime.

Seeks to ban firearm possession and use by increasing the expense thereof.

Easy for a little man with layers of armed security paid for by someone else to think up.
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  #6  
Old 01-30-2013, 4:59 PM
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So how do we know if something has been taxed on a box of ammo? Will it have stickers on it like a pack of cigarettes?

Welcome to the new moonshine biz. Ammo runners from across the border.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:10 PM
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It just bothers me how so many of these bills basically cubby-hole all gun owners as the cause/source of all violent gun crime... and this one extends it in a manner such that we are expected to pay for efforts to "fix the problem" with some nebulous fund in Sacramento somewhere...

I'm just an Engineer in the 'burbs who happens to like shooting... lolwut?

PS some media coverage of this bill (among others) here: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/cali...mmo-taxes.html
Note that the other bill related to mental health services for children (no ID on it listed) listed a "nickel per round" tax on ammo... ouch?!

Last edited by scootle; 01-30-2013 at 5:13 PM..
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagman00 View Post
So how do we know if something has been taxed on a box of ammo? Will it have stickers on it like a pack of cigarettes?

Welcome to the new moonshine biz. Ammo runners from across the border.
Instead of build parties we'll have to start having border ammo buy parties. Arizona is already courting Remington, I bet they will be very happy to have a lot of Californians hopping the border to buy ammo in their state.
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:37 PM
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And this would help cut down on crime how ?!?!

Damn idiotic, unAmerican Politicians doing whatever they can to incringe on the 2A.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootle View Post
It just bothers me how so many of these bills basically cubby-hole all gun owners as the cause/source of all violent gun crime... and this one extends it in a manner such that we are expected to pay for efforts to "fix the problem" with some nebulous fund in Sacramento somewhere...

I'm just an Engineer in the 'burbs who happens to like shooting... lolwut?

PS some media coverage of this bill (among others) here: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/cali...mmo-taxes.html
Note that the other bill related to mental health services for children (no ID on it listed) listed a "nickel per round" tax on ammo... ouch?!
You mean "nickel per round" "related to mental health services for children that will go into the general tax fund and be used on everything but children's mental health services".
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:48 PM
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[QUOTE=Sniper3142;10373261]And this would help cut down on crime how ?!?!

Gang bangers would not have enough stolen money, to pay the tax, to buy ammo for their stolen firearms.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercf View Post
Instead of build parties we'll have to start having border ammo buy parties. Arizona is already courting Remington, I bet they will be very happy to have a lot of Californians hopping the border to buy ammo in their state.
I'm ready! Sign me up for 10k rounds from arizona ;-)
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:52 PM
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It was bound to happen. But can they tax our civil right???
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:13 PM
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I can see it now. Someone rents a schoolbus and a 14 foot unsullied trailer for a road trip to Arizona ...
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:31 PM
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If this law gets passed (hopefully not), in a couple years they'll put a measure on the ballot to divert this tax money from mental health issues to something else like they did with the dros.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:33 PM
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Jerry Brown loves taxes, this will pass if it reaches his desk.
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:34 PM
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2013, 6:29 AM
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Quote:
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It was bound to happen. But can they tax our civil right???
Silly gun owner, you have no rights!
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:42 AM
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Well, I have been wanting to take more trips to Vegas anyway.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2013, 7:59 AM
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And people wonder why many gun owners have 50-100k rounds stashed, "nobody needs that much ammo". It is to protect against stupidity like this.

I will just continue diverting every spare $ I can get to building my stash so crap like this won't affect me.
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  #21  
Old 01-31-2013, 8:03 AM
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And people wonder why many gun owners have 50-100k rounds stashed, "nobody needs that much ammo". It is to protect against stupidity like this.

I will just continue diverting every spare $ I can get to building my stash so crap like this won't affect me.
BOOOOOM ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 01-31-2013, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagman00 View Post
So how do we know if something has been taxed on a box of ammo? Will it have stickers on it like a pack of cigarettes?

Welcome to the new moonshine biz. Ammo runners from across the border.
I support the Stamp Tax idea. That went over well before the first War for Independence. Perhaps it can spark another return to freedom-hopefully with less bloodshed this time?
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  #23  
Old 01-31-2013, 9:45 AM
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I can see it now. Someone rents a schoolbus and a 14 foot unsullied trailer for a road trip to Arizona ...
Or perhaps a CalGuns "road trip"? I certainly hope that it turns out better than that deep sea fishing trip. I still can't believe that we all lost all of our weapons...at least no one drowned thanks to those CalGuns swimming lessons.
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  #24  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:21 AM
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Tried to email Bonta through his website with the following:

Please do not pursue AB187. Gun ownership is a Constitutional right. Taxing ammunition sales is the equivalent of a poll tax on voting and has been ruled unconstitutional under the 14th amendment (please see the 1966 case of Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections). Your proposed legislation is probably unconstitutional and if passed will open this state to litigation it can't afford. Thank you for your consideration on this issue.

My response? An error on the website: Address is not in District. Please contact your District Representative.

I guess the guy wants to pass laws that affect everyone in the state, but doesn't want to hear about it...

-Ruskie
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuskieShooter View Post
Tried to email Bonta through his website with the following:

Please do not pursue AB187. Gun ownership is a Constitutional right. Taxing ammunition sales is the equivalent of a poll tax on voting and has been ruled unconstitutional under the 14th amendment (please see the 1966 case of Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections). Your proposed legislation is probably unconstitutional and if passed will open this state to litigation it can't afford. Thank you for your consideration on this issue.

My response? An error on the website: Address is not in District. Please contact your District Representative.

I guess the guy wants to pass laws that affect everyone in the state, but doesn't want to hear about it...

-Ruskie
They're all setup like that. I tried to do that for the members of both public safety committees and was denied. Unfortunately, phone calls it is.
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  #26  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:03 AM
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I really hope this passes
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:04 AM
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it probably just checks zip code, why not just modify your zip?
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:10 AM
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Well my daughter starts a UNLV in the fall (diving/academic scholarships) so I guess I will be making trips to see her compete on a regular basis.
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:22 AM
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BOOO!
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:34 AM
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Making us the outcasts even more in this state.

Saying good by to more local businesses.

All for more fake feel good politicians.

California will never stop.
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  #31  
Old 01-31-2013, 11:44 AM
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I like how they want to sell this as helping Mental Health.

Seems like I remember 2004 when they passed Prop 63 which was an extra 1% tax on people making a million or more. I also remember reading that they have more money from that tax than they can spend on mental health and in 2012 I seem to remember someone calling for an audit of the funds because they were using it for native american sweat therapy and yoga.

Bunch of dang crooks.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:04 PM
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I was listening to a local radio talking head (bay area) yesterday and this is exactly what his vision is to "change our gun crazy personal habits". Tax us into submission, he compared it to tobacco, publicly shun us as in smoking bans and taxes. He supports our right to own whatever guns he thinks is OK but not allow us to afford to purchase or shoot them. This I believe is our biggest challenge and it will be starting at the local level.
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Old 01-31-2013, 1:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJ View Post
I was listening to a local radio talking head (bay area) yesterday and this is exactly what his vision is to "change our gun crazy personal habits". Tax us into submission, he compared it to tobacco, publicly shun us as in smoking bans and taxes. He supports our right to own whatever guns he thinks is OK but not allow us to afford to purchase or shoot them. This I believe is our biggest challenge and it will be starting at the local level.
What he doesn't get is that tobacco isn't a right under the Constitution and can therefore be taxed. Levying a tax on a constitutional right has already been determined to be a violation of the 14th Amendment.

-Ruskie
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Old 03-17-2013, 8:37 AM
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FYI ...8 states are looking to buy into this tax...NEVADA is one of the states...road trip to az..ut,,,tx...
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2013, 8:41 AM
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Ill be a buyer in AZ for sure. Ill buy probably 5-10k each time.
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.....In fact, the majority of people don't want freedom and wouldn't know what to do with it even if they had it.
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Old 03-17-2013, 8:46 AM
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Ill be a buyer in AZ for sure. Ill buy probably 5-10k each time.
Next years session they'll make it illegal to buy ammo outside of the state.
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Old 03-17-2013, 8:49 AM
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"Existing law requires, subject to exceptions, that handgun ammunition vendors obtain a thumbprint and other information from ammunition purchasers, as specified."

When did this happen?
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  #38  
Old 03-17-2013, 9:00 AM
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Where did all the CA tobacco tax go? To "help educate children"
Can someone vote against these Democrat bastards soon?
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  #39  
Old 03-17-2013, 9:03 AM
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The sad part is that the tax funds will end up funding more anti-gun legislation. California is like the movie Brazil, we get tortured and have to pay for the torture ourselves.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
They're all setup like that. I tried to do that for the members of both public safety committees and was denied. Unfortunately, phone calls it is.
Unless you happen to consider the local Walmart in his district as your secondary address. I may or may not consider quite a few Walmarts in districts whose representatives that I'm trying to get my point across to as my homes away from home. . . Oh and I've received auto responses that would make me assume that my messages were at least received, albeit ignored.
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