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  #1  
Old 01-28-2013, 5:47 PM
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Default I'm Not a Good Shot: Any Recommended Self Help Videos?

I shoot mostly a C75B Single Action Only 9mm. I am not a very good shot. The creepy trigger doesn;t help, but I think the gun is fine. At 15 yards, I can't do much better than saucer size groups. I do notably better with my Dan Wesson Pointman 7 in 45ACP (a much higher end gun), but would like to see some kind of good self help videos on how to best shoot a handgun for accuracy. I may need personal instruction, but for now, some Internet type instruction would be useful (I hope) for smaller groups.

Thanks.

Phil
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:41 PM
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Sell all your guns and ammo CHEAP to fellow CalGunners!

First for 9mm!! I'll take it!
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:42 PM
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Take a class. After that, practicing what you learn and trying to stay away from sloppy or bad habits becomes easier. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:45 PM
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Start by bringing in the target closer, like 5 yards or 7 yards.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:46 PM
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I realize you are asking for videos to temporarily "help" you out. The reality is, you need hands on training with a competent trainer. You'd be amazed at how much better you will shoot after a session with a good trainer. Well worth the money. Just skip out on a few shooting sessions and save your money on ammo and use it for future training. Easily the best money I have ever spent on firearms was spent on good training. So many people own multiple firearms and have never spent the money on good training. I guess I would rather be proficient with one firearm than being a crappy shooter with two firearms. YMMV
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:46 PM
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YouTube max michel from team sig sauer.

He has lots of good pointers.

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Old 01-28-2013, 6:54 PM
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After spending the first 6 months or so shooting my 1911 and a Sig SP2022 (.45 and 9 mm respectively) and not getting a whole lot better, I rented a .22 and spent some serious time at the range and focused on all of the basics. Stance, grip, breathing, trigger finger. After 2 trips, my groups got much, much smaller!!! I was SO happy to see some improvement! Then, I switched to the 1911 and kept in mind the basics. Shot only 5 shots. All in the black bullseye or 10 ring. So, I HIGHLY recommend training on a small caliber pistol to get the fundamentals down.

I'll see if I can dig up some other threads on it, but I know of at least 2 in recent memory-one on breathing and another on slow, deliberate training.

The one thing you don't want to do is to aimlessly (pun intended!) go shooting. This will only reinforce habits that will be hard to break later on.

I second the suggestion on a personal coach/trainer. And, I'm sure if you're nearby someone, you can meet up with them at a range and they can give you some pointers! (HEY!!! Wait a minute! I'm a San Ramonian too!!!). I'd offer my help, but I'm a newbie too and for all I know, my smaller groups could be a fluke!

I've got a Ruger 22/45 in jail right now and pick it up on the 6th. I'll probably be shooting again after that. Where do you normally shoot? I like Livermore, but have been going to Reeds since it's been Arctic-Cold out here lately.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:56 PM
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I'd agree. Take a class, snap cap training, have a partner come with you and critique your stance, flinch, and other aspects from grip to posture. (someone who knows what they are doing) But first and foremost, take a good handgun class.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacTown View Post
I realize you are asking for videos to temporarily "help" you out. The reality is, you need hands on training with a competent trainer. You'd be amazed at how much better you will shoot after a session with a good trainer. Well worth the money. Just skip out on a few shooting sessions and save your money on ammo and use it for future training. Easily the best money I have ever spent on firearms was spent on good training. So many people own multiple firearms and have never spent the money on good training. I guess I would rather be proficient with one firearm than being a crappy shooter with two firearms. YMMV
^^ This! I took a CCW class recently and needed range qualification for the FL CCW permit. Only shot 25 rounds but the trainer was familiar with Glocks and gave me tips that improved my groupings immensely! I can only imagine how much my shooting would improve if I spent more time with a trainer.
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2013, 7:05 PM
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Here's the one on breathing: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=683100

And this from the 1911 forums. Check out post #17
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=396151

One thing that is also very useful is to take pictures of your targets. Then, analyze them. Use one of the shooting charts to tell you what you're doing wrong. Ex: Shooting low and slightly left is usually flinching or anticipating the recoil. Other tips are: Dry Fire and using snap caps when you're out on the range-Have a friend load the mag with one or two snap caps in it. Then, when you come up to the snap cap, it will tell you whether or not you're flinching. (Kind of embarrassing-Ask me how I know).
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2013, 7:15 PM
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Go to You Tube and do a search for "Pistol shooting tips" or "Pistol shooting techniques" The videos are good but it's all about good live instruction and trigger time.... Nothing trumps trigger time. Ask at the range if they can recommend an instructor for some 1 on 1.

Have a friend video tape you at the range so you can see how you actually look when you pull that trigger, a little video goes a long way... you'll probably see things you had no idea you were doing.

Buy a laser bore sighter (about $30-$40 at Walmart) so you can see where the bullet is actually going relative to where the sights tell you it's going. I have a Glock 17 that kept consistently shooting high and to the right at anything more than 15 feet... I went thru hundreds of rounds, finally just for kicks i bought a bore sighter (Wal-Mart $30).... Low and behold, with my Trijicon sights perfectly lined up and level at 20 feet away from my target, I was 1" high and right at the 2 O'clock from the dead center of the target. A couple of adjustments later and it was right where it should be.

Most of the time (IMHO) it's an operator inconsistency with the lining up of the sights or the sights themselves being a bit off (it doesn't take much). I would also recommend some Hi-Viz targets. They are stickers that go on your paper targets and go from black to neon green where the bullet strikes them...great tool for correction of follow up shots. The rest is just trigger time.
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:10 PM
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Dry firing has helped me immensely.... remove ALL ammo from the room you'll be dry firing in, double check that the gun is unloaded, and pick a spot with a safe backdrop to dry fire at (I use my brick fireplace which would stop a bullet if something went horribly wrong). Practice a consistent grip/stance, pull the trigger straight back, and keep your eye(s) on the front sight the entire time. The front sight shouldn't move at all when the hammer drops. You can balance a coin on the front sight or the top of the slide, and try to dry fire without letting the coin to fall off when you pull the trigger.

At the range, bring some snap caps and have someone load a couple of them in a mag along with live ammo (so you don't know when you'll get a snap cap or a live round)... this is very useful in catching yourself flinching. As XDJYo mentioned, it can be pretty embarrassing when you flinch on a snap cap and I've found that shame is a particularly good motivator.

When my groups start to open up at the range, I stop, take a few minutes to rest, then dry fire 20-30 times before I load up another mag. This helps to eliminate flinching if you don't have a buddy to mix snap caps in with live rounds for you.

If you dry fire just 5-10 minutes every night, you should see some improvement in your groups pretty quickly. Remember: keep your eyes on the front sight, consistent grip/stance, pull the trigger straight back, and just "let" the gun go off. Resist the urge to peek at the target as/after you fire each shot... keep your eyes on that front sight as the gun levels out, even if you aren't firing multiple shots in succession.

Another piece of advice that helped me is to not worry so much about getting perfect sight picture, but rather concentrate more on sight alignment and a straight trigger pull. Many people will wait and wait until they think the sights are perfectly lined up with the center of the bullseye, then snap off a round quickly before they lose that sight picture. This leads to anticipating the recoil/flinching/sloppy trigger pulls, which will cause you to throw the shot much worse than you would have with a solid sight alignment and trigger pull, even if the POA is slightly off center when the trigger breaks.

I'm not a crack shot by ANY stretch of the imagination, but all the above advice has really helped me tighten up my groups over the past few months. As others have mentioned, there's no substitute for good professional training, but there are some things you can do by yourself to improve your technique. Good luck, have fun, and always follow the 4 main safety rules at all times!
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:38 PM
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Nothing in particular to add except some advice from someone at the range on grip:
"Ask 20 different shooters how to hold a pistol, and You'll get 40 different answers that are all the "only right way." The main thing is to hold it so that you are comfortable and hit the target consistently. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to work."

Besides that, thanks everyone for the great tips.
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
YouTube max michel from team sig sauer.

He has lots of good pointers.
+1

I put a lot of his pointers to use, it works.
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  #15  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:32 AM
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Solid fundamentals are essential. If you fail to master trigger control, sight alignment, sight picture you will never be anything but a mediocre shooter.
Get some professional, in person, assistance.
Videos are great for shooters with experience, but you have to somewhat up to speed when you view and attempt to put into practice the techniques you viewed. Videoing yourself can be of great benefit to improving performance on the range.
Practice makes permanent. Only Perfect Practice make perfect. Practice crap for 10 years and you will be a crap master. Practice perfectly, it pays off in the end.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:39 AM
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Dry fire and snap caps helped me a lot. First gun I ever shot was a .40 and I did ok, but being mostly self-taught I definitely learned the wrong way. Took me a long time to correct my bad habits and even today I have to slow waaaaay down and concentrate if I'm shooting for accuracy.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:48 AM
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Training obviously is the best way to improve your shooting. If you still don't believe us, you can watch a few videos. I learned a lot by watching the Magpul Dynamic Handgun DVD. They covered the basics pretty well.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
I'd agree. Take a class, snap cap training, have a partner come with you and critique your stance, flinch, and other aspects from grip to posture. (someone who knows what they are doing) But first and foremost, take a good handgun class.
+1 to that. I have many friends who own or have owned weapons, including some who are in a line of work that requires them to be armed every day. Best advice I've received wasn't from any of them, it was from a class that focused on fundamentals.

As others have suggested, mixing live and dummy rounds at the range is a quick way to find out how clean your presses are and whether or not you're anticipating. I'll be practicing those drill tonight myself.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
C75B Single Action Only
Quote:
The creepy trigger
Those two things don't usually go together.
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Old 01-29-2013, 6:05 PM
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Based on these responses, I intend on getting a Browning Buckmark 22 rimfire, learn the fundamentals through a class if I can find one, videos from reputable sources, practice a lot (live and w/snap caps on all pistols I have), and then apply the lessons learned to live fire with my 9mm and 45ACP.

Phil
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Old 01-29-2013, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
Those two things don't usually go together.
Yes, I hoped for better with SAO and trigger performance, but the trigger is not great. I like a light pull and very crisp let off. Not happening with this gun. My Dan Wesson PointMan 7 is much better, but it should be for twice the price of the CZ75B.

Phil
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Old 01-29-2013, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
Based on these responses, I intend on getting a Browning Buckmark 22 rimfire, learn the fundamentals through a class if I can find one, videos from reputable sources, practice a lot (live and w/snap caps on all pistols I have), and then apply the lessons learned to live fire with my 9mm and 45ACP.

Phil
Hi Phil-

Just as an option (not sure how much the Buckmark's are), but I just bought a Ruger 22/45 (same grip angle as the 1911) for $275 at Reeds in Santa Clara. That was with a $25 credit for the Ruger I rented. I pick it up on the 6th.

Anyway, if you're willing to head up to USI in Concord, I know a bunch of Calgunners meet there on Sundays. Maybe you can get a few hints and make a pal or two!

And, every time I'm at Livermore, the Range Officers are always very friendly and they give me pointers for free (they probably take pity on me!). I don't know of any Calgunners that hit Livermore, although I'm sure they exist!

PM me the next time you hit Livermore or Reeds or something and maybe we can meet up!

Good luck with the shooting and be safe.

Johnny
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:46 PM
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FYI, Rob Pincus (yes, that Rob Pincus) has some pretty good dvd's on firearms training. You might want to check them out...

http://www.icetraining.us/

I tried one of his dvd's given to me by the NRA but I was more of an advanced student.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:52 PM
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Two things that have really helped my handgun accuracy.

First competing in Bullseye matches (in slow fire the main emphasis is to get all the shots to score - at 50 yds, strong hand only). Scoring your shots helps you understand what your doing wrong. Having people around at the matches who have a few pointers helps also.

Second, eye correction is a big deal. I'm near sighted and now do my pistol work without correction. Not wearing corrective glasses really helped my groups. When I use even half correction glasses the front sight becomes to blurry (and the rear sight is worse).
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Old 01-30-2013, 7:33 AM
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Phil,

I also have a 75b SA and a buckmark. If you're used to a 1911 trigger, everything else seems "long and creepy". You will find a similar issue with the buckmark. It has a very short and light trigger pull. It definitely spoils you, and I don't think this particular .22 will help you with improving accuracy on a CZ75.
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Old 01-30-2013, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iknownot View Post
Take a class. After that, practicing what you learn and trying to stay away from sloppy or bad habits becomes easier. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, take a class from a reputable school / instructor. Sooner, rather than later, for the reasons stated above. It will be money well spent.
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Old 01-30-2013, 7:40 AM
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BTW, you might check with CZ-USA forums to see what people do about improving their triggers.

On the SA trigger, you are supposed to be able to adjust both the pre-travel and post-travel. Some people get rid of the firing pin safety as well. I haven't tried it yet though.

IMO, the CZ 75 is as good a 9mm as you can get. I shoot it better than berettas and glocks. The trigger on the SA should beat a beretta or glock's standard trigger.

The best .22 practice would be a Kadet conversion kit, but those are very hard to find now.
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Old 01-30-2013, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
Based on these responses, I intend on getting a Browning Buckmark 22 rimfire, learn the fundamentals through a class if I can find one, videos from reputable sources, practice a lot (live and w/snap caps on all pistols I have), and then apply the lessons learned to live fire with my 9mm and 45ACP.

Phil
While you don't necessarily need the .22, it's just a LOT cheaper to get the trigger time.

I'd look up Bill Tidwell. He makes his rounds through the Bay Area regularly. But yea, basically the point of taking the class is when you're shooting, unless you know what to look or feel for, you can only see the results of your shooting and try to infer what you did wrong. With an instructor, you have someone who's watching you through every step of the process and can give you targeted advice. The payment you make to a good fundamentals instructor is usually less that what you'd pay in ammo for a centerfire pistol to get the same results.
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Old 01-30-2013, 3:43 PM
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Yes, Bill Tidwell is who I got my First Steps pistol course from. He teaches out of Livermore and Reeds in Santa Clara. IIRC, there are others who advertise pistol or target training at the ranges. Next time you're there, chat with one of the range officers.
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Old 01-30-2013, 3:46 PM
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just keep shooting


if that doesn't work try a different gun then repeat
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Old 01-30-2013, 5:17 PM
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I don't know how much experience you have and you didn't mention anything about grip, but I like to always start new shooters with the grip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVhTA-n0ivE
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Old 01-30-2013, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil3 View Post
I shoot mostly a C75B Single Action Only 9mm. I am not a very good shot. The creepy trigger doesn;t help, but I think the gun is fine. At 15 yards, I can't do much better than saucer size groups. I do notably better with my Dan Wesson Pointman 7 in 45ACP (a much higher end gun), but would like to see some kind of good self help videos on how to best shoot a handgun for accuracy. I may need personal instruction, but for now, some Internet type instruction would be useful (I hope) for smaller groups.

Thanks.

Phil
I recommend lots of focused dry fire but here's my video on grip; might help you out..

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Old 01-30-2013, 6:07 PM
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Here's a quick old trick. Have some one stack 5 or 6 quarters on top if your slide, as close to the front sight post as you can, and pull the trigger. Pull it over, and over, and over, and... You get the point. It teaches you a nice smooth trigger press.

If you want to get crazy, punish yourself every time this coins fall off. Hahahha. Depending on your level of masocism, you can improve quickly.

This, of course, depends on the style of pistol you have.
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Old 01-31-2013, 3:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
YouTube max michel from team sig sauer.

He has lots of good pointers.
He definitely does. Thanks!
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  #35  
Old 01-31-2013, 3:28 AM
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RonnieP RonnieP is offline
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@OP

Buy a .22LR handgun and go Practice.

Pennies to shoot = More range/practice time
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  #36  
Old 01-31-2013, 3:45 AM
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kimber_ss kimber_ss is online now
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Go with Wes at LFI guns! He will find out what you are doing wrong and fix it. Money well spent!
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