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  #1  
Old 01-28-2013, 6:34 AM
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Default Out of state family transfers question.

Hey all. I have a question. My mom just recently moved to Vegas and she wants to give me her revolver. I was going to go drive up there and pick it up. I have filled out the doj paperwork but have not sent it in. Will it be legal for me to bring it across state lines if the paperwork has or has not been filed in time?
I don't want to break any laws here.

Thanks
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:43 AM
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if your mom is now an NV resident, it is now federal felony for her to personally give you a firearm for you to take back to CA. it is a second federal felony for you to acquire a firearm outside of your home state and bring it back home. Your mom must deliver the firearm to a CA FFL for you to do the DROS and 10 day wait. There is no intrafamily exemption to this federal interstate transfer law.

That CADOJ form does not exempt you from federal law.
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Old 01-28-2013, 6:56 AM
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Wow ok thanks. Glad I went ahead and asked before I left next month. ..
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Old 01-28-2013, 7:01 AM
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Could you just put her in the car and drive to CA and exchange there.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2013, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfull View Post
Could you just put her in the car and drive to CA and exchange there.
FTF at an FFL to dros yes.
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2013, 9:01 AM
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Zinfull - Casper has it right. An Interstate transfer has nothing to do with where you and the seller are. It has to with the fact the new owner and old owner are residents of different states.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
if your mom is now an NV resident, it is now federal felony for her to personally give you a firearm for you to take back to CA.

Living in Nevada does not necessarily make her a resident.
She may still be considered to be a California resident if she:
  • has a California Driver's license
  • filed taxes in for 2012 in California
  • lived in California for the majority of the past 12 months
  • owns a vehicle registered in California
  • is registered to vote in California
  • has accounts in California banks
  • owns property
  • etc

OP - if you Mom's move has been fairly recent she may still be legally considered a California Resident
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Old 01-28-2013, 2:24 PM
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She moved to Nevada in October and she said she has only changed her bills and her address threw USPS. Her cars / DMV/drivers license , bank is still for California.

Also, I talked to the DOJ. And they said it was perfectly legal to cross state lines with a family members firearm. Even if it is not in my name yet. He also said I just need to fill out the form and make sure I put down my hand gun safety permit number on the form. He also said it will take around 6-8 weeks for paperwork to be complete and that I don't have to wait. I can go pick it up.

Now I'm confused.
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Old 01-28-2013, 2:39 PM
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Read this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...wpost&t=503873
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Old 01-28-2013, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburn View Post
She moved to Nevada in October and she said she has only changed her bills and her address threw USPS. Her cars / DMV/drivers license , bank is still for California.

Also, I talked to the DOJ. And they said it was perfectly legal to cross state lines with a family members firearm. Even if it is not in my name yet. He also said I just need to fill out the form and make sure I put down my hand gun safety permit number on the form. He also said it will take around 6-8 weeks for paperwork to be complete and that I don't have to wait. I can go pick it up.

Now I'm confused.
you talked to CADOJ, not federal DOJ.

CADOJ only concerns itself with CA law, not federal law. CADOJ told you correctly that it was not a violation of CA law for you to cross state lines with your mother's firearm that you want to do an intrafamily transfer to yourself. FIll out the CADOJ form with $19 and CA is happy. Their advice, even though it is CA-legal, is not federally legal when the transferor is a resident of another state. You'd need to check with NV and the feds to see if your mother is still a CA resident or is not an NV resident. Just because your ID is from your old state doesn't necessarily make you still a resident of that old state.
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Old 01-28-2013, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburn View Post
She moved to Nevada in October and she said she has only changed her bills and her address threw USPS. Her cars / DMV/drivers license , bank is still for California.

Also, I talked to the DOJ. And they said it was perfectly legal to cross state lines with a family members firearm. Even if it is not in my name yet. He also said I just need to fill out the form and make sure I put down my hand gun safety permit number on the form. He also said it will take around 6-8 weeks for paperwork to be complete and that I don't have to wait. I can go pick it up.

Now I'm confused.
If I were you I would just do what they told you, asking legal advice from a bunch of wanta be wiki lawyers is the last thing you should do.

Idont think there is anything wrong with what you are going to do as long as the weapon is not banned in CA. Off roster is fine.
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Old 01-28-2013, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
You mean the one where he did what he was told by DOJ and had no issues?
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2013, 3:17 PM
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And yet the Calguns Wiki is the most comprehensive firearms legal database... you seem to not understand the distinction between state and federal law.
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Old 01-28-2013, 3:30 PM
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Ok so just to be clear.

1. Any hand gun being transferred from mother to son that reside in 2 different states must do so threw an FFL dealer of the new owners state (in my case, Ca). Even if I sent in all the correct DOJ forms and paid the fees.

2. If the hand gun is not on the roster, she, (my mother) must fill out the correct forms along with a notarized letter stating that this hand gun is being gifted.

3. It is a Federal felony to cross state lines with a hand gun that is not registered in your name.

For the record. This hand gun, I believe, is on the roster. (Smith and Wesson model 19-3) revolver. This was a ca. police issued 357mag

So the easiest way to get this gun in my hands is to have her send it through an FFL dealer of my choice in ca. Then wait the 10 day period. Having the FFL dealer do the transfer.
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Old 01-28-2013, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburn View Post
She moved to Nevada in October and she said she has only changed her bills and her address threw USPS. Her cars / DMV/drivers license , bank is still for California.

Also, I talked to the DOJ. And they said it was perfectly legal to cross state lines with a family members firearm. Even if it is not in my name yet. He also said I just need to fill out the form and make sure I put down my hand gun safety permit number on the form. He also said it will take around 6-8 weeks for paperwork to be complete and that I don't have to wait. I can go pick it up.

Now I'm confused.
Not an uncommon problem.

The CA-DOJ lawyers understand the problem. Unfortunately for callers, the lawyers are not the ones who answer the phone.

Those folks who do answer the phones seldom remember Federal law - which is the governing law on interstate transfers.

So, your understanding is correct, with one minor change - since the gun will go through a CA FFL, DROS does all the registration stuff, and the OPLAW form is not needed; don't file an OPLAW form, and don't let your chosen Local Gun Store tell you all you need is the form - gun store clerks are not a lot better on this point than the CA-DOJ phone answerers.

Quote:
3. It is a Federal felony to cross state lines with a hand gun that is not registered in your name.
ETA this isn't quite correct, either. It isn't the 'registration' issue, it's where you got the gun compared to where you live. If someone had willed you a handgun, or given it to you, before 1991, it likely would not be associated with you in the state's records. Interstate travel with such a handgun is no problem. It's living in state X and getting possession of (purchase, trade, gift - inheritance is fine) the handgun in state Y, and bringing it back to X, that is the problem.
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Last edited by Librarian; 01-28-2013 at 3:52 PM..
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2013, 3:50 PM
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I just find it odd that even though I transfer the hand gun in my name with Ca DOJ. It is illegal to go pick it up sense it is in another state. For all they know. I already had it in possession.
For instance.
Say my mom handed me her fire arms and said "hey I'm moving to Nevada tomorrow and I want you to have my guns." She gives them to me and she changes her address/ residency the next day. I fill out the paperwork the following week and send it in. In this case. I transfer the guns into my name after she is already a NV resident. Does this now violate federal laws?
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Old 01-28-2013, 3:59 PM
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If it is not illegal to cross state lines with the hand gun. Is it legal to go over to NV and bring it back and then take it to a FFL dealer to do the transfers and the 10 day waiting period? Just a thought.
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Old 01-28-2013, 4:05 PM
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You need to figure out the status her residency before you go through all the what-ifs. That will determine your options. While you wait, re-read the stickies.
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Old 01-28-2013, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburn View Post
I just find it odd that even though I transfer the hand gun in my name with Ca DOJ. It is illegal to go pick it up sense it is in another state. For all they know. I already had it in possession.
For instance.
Say my mom handed me her fire arms and said "hey I'm moving to Nevada tomorrow and I want you to have my guns." She gives them to me and she changes her address/ residency the next day. I fill out the paperwork the following week and send it in. In this case. I transfer the guns into my name after she is already a NV resident. Does this now violate federal laws?
we're telling you what the law is and how it applies to the scenario you posted. We won't tell you what you might be able to get away with. Sure you might be able to get away with it claiming she gave them to you in October, but if that is the case, you are already late in filing an intrafamily transfer form. you were supposed to do it within 30-days.

And we don't know if anybody has seen that firearm in her possession between Octoboer and now? did an LEO have reason to note the serial number? did she take to to an FFL to have it repaired? Did she pawn it for a bit? Did she take it to some range that makes you list what firearms you're shooting? did she lend it to a friend? We don't know any of these answers. If any of them were YES, then there miight be a papertrail showing that she didn't leave it with you in Oct.

See, we can only tell you what the law requires you to do. IF your mom is currently an NV resident, FEDERAL law requires her to use a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer of that handgun. It doesn't matter what CADOJ tells you, they don't enforce federal law. You need to call the feds. We can post the federal laws that prohibit it, and you won't find an "intrafamily" exemption in those laws.
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Old 01-28-2013, 4:29 PM
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I appricate all the info. I'll do what I need to do so no laws are broken. I'll figure out her residency and go from there.

Thanks for all the input.
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Old 01-28-2013, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cburn View Post
If it is not illegal to cross state lines with the hand gun. Is it legal to go over to NV and bring it back and then take it to a FFL dealer to do the transfers and the 10 day waiting period? Just a thought.
No. Illegal for you, an unlicensed person, to take possession out of state, illegal to bring back to CA. Must go directly to FFL in your state of residence (in this case, CA) and from the FFL to you after he does all the required FFL-things.
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Old 01-28-2013, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
And we don't know if anybody has seen that firearm in her possession between Octoboer and now? did an LEO have reason to note the serial number? did she take to to an FFL to have it repaired? Did she pawn it for a bit? Did she take it to some range that makes you list what firearms you're shooting? did she lend it to a friend? We don't know any of these answers. If any of them were YES, then there miight be a papertrail showing that she didn't leave it with you in Oct.

See, we can only tell you what the law requires you to do. IF your mom is currently an NV resident, FEDERAL law requires her to use a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer of that handgun. It doesn't matter what CADOJ tells you, they don't enforce federal law. You need to call the feds. We can post the federal laws that prohibit it, and you won't find an "intrafamily" exemption in those laws.
FYI.
Per NV state laws [NRS 244.364] and Clark County Ordinances [CCO 12.04.200 & 12.04.110]...
Residents of Clark County are required to register all handguns they bring into Clark County within 72 hours.
A person who lives in Clark County for 60 consecutive days is considered a resident of Clark County.
Failure to comply is a misdemeanor per handgun and the unregistered handgun(s) can be confiscated.

Since, mom moved to Las Vegas (Clark County, NV) in October.
By now, she should have complied with NV laws and registered all her handguns with LVMPD.
And if they are registered with LVMPD, that is a papertrail showing that a NV resident owns them.

So, just going to NV and taking firearms back to CA, is a violation of multiple Federal laws. In addition after you do this, mailing in the CA DOJ form will make you comply with CA state laws but will document for the BATFE that you violated Federal laws.

There is no intra-familial gift exemption to Federal laws.
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Last edited by Quiet; 01-28-2013 at 6:13 PM..
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  #23  
Old 01-28-2013, 6:24 PM
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Hold the phone...You mean there are already laws on the books for moving firearms from one state to another? I thought that was what all this gun control was going to prevent. It is supposed to be easy to buy guns in one state and take them to another, and these new laws are going to prevent that.

Real question: can said mother ship the gun to FFL if a) the pistol is on roster or b) off roster?
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Old 01-28-2013, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto4Fun View Post

Real question: can said mother ship the gun to FFL if a) the pistol is on roster or b) off roster?
Either way as intrafamilial gifts.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki articles on

Intrafamilial transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...Family_Members

Interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Tr...rms_Interstate
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:32 AM
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May I ask, is it the same for a rifle? I am wanting to build my son an AR15 for his birthday and he lives in California. I currewntly live in Nevada. What would be the legal process if I was to hand deliver it to him in California?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
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OHM- It's the same for any firearm transfer between residents of different states.
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