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  #1  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:10 PM
SO.CALISHOOTER SO.CALISHOOTER is offline
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Default What to pick? Ruger p95 or S&W sigma . Or just go all out and get the glock

New to cal guns, first post.. I've been researching a couple of handguns that catch my interest (looks and price,reliability) for my first handgun I'm counting down the days until I'm 21. The guns that I have been looking at are a ruger p95 , smith and wesson sigma 40 , or just thinking of going straight for the glock 22 from all the good feedback I hear about them but also I wanted something different from a glock. Much input would be greatly appreciated from experienced shooters and before anything yes I have handled guns before thanks in advance
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:15 PM
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Also I'am awaiting my ca guard card any day I will be a armed security guard. So anything I get will be carried on the job.. Thanks again
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:31 PM
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Get the Glock and never look back.
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:33 PM
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Glock > Ruger P95 > S&W Sigma
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:40 PM
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As stated above, save up enough money and get the Glock. The Ruger is a reliable gun, but much heavier than the Glock and Sigma. The Sigma is based somewhat off of the Glock design and cheaper, but not a Glock.
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacaville View Post
Glock > Ruger P95 > S&W Sigma
+1 to this. P-Series are fine pistols, but I would choose a Glock over any of them.
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2013, 7:42 PM
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Another vote for the Glock. I love mine.
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Old 01-24-2013, 7:44 PM
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What's the average price for a glock after tax and dros?
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2013, 8:08 PM
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About $600. But it's totally worth it. You may also find some good deals here in the classifieds for around $400-$500
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Old 01-24-2013, 8:15 PM
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Thanks guys I appreciate it
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:20 PM
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You may not find what you are looking for at all at this point. All the stores around me have been totally empty as far as handguns go. I have seen the Springfield XD though. That is also a very reliable gun. I have had all these guns that have been mentioned. I will brea it down for you.

Glock: I own 2 of them, a 17 and a 21. Both of them are very easy to take apart and clean. They are both very acurate and made with quality in mind. The after market parts for the Glock are very easy to come by and very reasonably prices. Extra mags for the glock are $25 each. I have 5 mags for each of my glocks. The grip on glocks is something that you will have to get used to. They are square and at a very wierd angle. the trigger is not that great either but they do have a great and short reset for fast follow up shots. This was the desidind factor for me above the M&P. Cost: plan on spending about $600-$650 OTD

P95: Very good gun. You can hit a target at 100yards with the p95 the sites are great and easy to see. The Ruger has ALL of its parts made in the USA, they have an excellent warranty with a fantastic customer service department. This is great for your first pistol and its very afforable too. Mags are more expensive at around $40 each. Cost $400-$450 OTD

Sigma: This is one of my favorite guns ever. I abused the heck out of mine ane it just kept ticking. I was able to feed anything thru it. never stove piped, FTF or FTE. if you want a gun that you can work on alter, learn how to do some basic smithing on and still have a very accurate and reliable gun than the Sigma is the gun for you. You can deal with the standard 14lb trigger or you can do some very simple mods and bring it down to 4lbs. There are lots of YouTube vids on how to do trigger jobs on the Sigma. Extra mag are kind of pricy though. they run about $47 to $55. The reset trigger reset sucks. But I am able to hit a fly in the eye at 25 yards with a Sigma and that is a heck of alot better than I am with my Glocks or my Ruger or any other pistol I own. Cost: $300 to $400. I paid $400 OTD.

Springfield XD: very reliable gun and very acurate. They are better looking than any of the above mentioned. They take full advantage of the sight radius and are used in compitition all over the world. The stock trigger is lighter than a sigma but has the same reset. You can buy kits to make the reset very short and take the pre travel ond over travel away completely they are very difficult to take apart and clean when you go beyond the field strip. you will almost need an extra pair of hands. Extra mags ar $40 each. Cost $450 to $500 OTD

You may also want to look at the Rock Island 1911. These guns are solid and a great value for the GI model. They are standard 1911s and the 1911 is one of the only guns with more aftermarket parts than the glock. They are made from the same plans and equipment as the Colt except they are not made here and they have a matte finish. The warranty is lifetime and they have graet customer service. I planned on getting one myself last sept. but I got a great deal on my Glock 21 FS that I just could not pass up. If Diane Finstien bill passes you have nothing to worry about they are 7-8 round mags. Extra mags are $15-$35 depending on the brands that you choose. they have many different models to choose from but the GI is the cheapest Cost: $400 to $500 OTD
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:28 PM
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1. Don't cheapout and get the lowest price gun. They last and last.
2. Used guns are a great buy.
3. I very seldom dislike a firearm, but the Sigma has the WORST trigger I've EVER felt. It's abysmal. Horrid. Inexcusable.

You are comparing 2 strikers vs. a DA/SA gun. They are very different in how the controls work.

But man, buy a P95 or it's older brother the P89 and buy the Glock.

.
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2013, 7:43 AM
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Originally Posted by orangeusa View Post
3. I very seldom dislike a firearm, but the Sigma has the WORST trigger I've EVER felt. It's abysmal. Horrid. Inexcusable.
.
Do not buy a used gun as your first gun. You do not know enough about them to look at them and tell if there is anything wrong. I made the mistake as buying use as my second and boy oh boy did I get burned.

The Trigger on the Sigma is only bad if you are coming off a Glock. The thing about Glock is after you have fired a Glock and gotten used to a Glock it will feel like there is something wrong with all of your other guns. Nothing will feel right if you get used to a Glock first. Just a warning. Its great for glock but its not no great for you.

You also may want to look at a S&W M&P9 or 40. mThey are both in the price range that you want to be in. about $500. They are also great guns and they are Glocks biggest competitor.
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:24 AM
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You picked the wrong Ruger my friend.
SR9 - just do it.



Reliable, sturdy, and (unlike a Glock) it ejects empty mags with extreme prejudice. They don't drop free, they shoot out.

Retails around $425 plus dros and tax.
A Glock retails around $560 plus dros and tax.

SR9 comes with an adjustable backstrap (something Glock will make you pay extra for - assuming you can get a GEN4 to begin with), better sight lines, and a much more ergonomic grip.

Note. the one pictured isn't mine (mine is the black version), but this is a good pic of it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:52 AM
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This guy has never held a Glock in his life. judging by the statement of "(unlike a Glock) it ejects empty mags with extreme prejudice".

I have never fired a Glock where the empty casing has fallen free. I have shot every glock that is legal on the market. The shells do not drop free.

Why are you trying to mislead this kid? He needs a reliable handgun that will serve him well under and condition. The ones he has thought about are great choices and they will not break the bank till he gets paid.

The four fireams I had mentioned to you was not to compare them directly to each other. They were to compare them to the kind of weapond you are looking for, Reliable. While true the SA/DA 1911 is a whole other animal than the strker fire Glock, XD or Sigma, it is still one of the most widely used gun models of all time.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:05 PM
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Thanks for all the input guys this information is highly appreciated, as to the m&p my cousin owns the m&p 40 and that was the first full size handgun I shot I like the 40cal hence having the glock 22 and sigma 40 as options the reason why I started looking at the ruger p95 was first the price then all the reviews I've read and looked up on YouTube seemed like a gun to consider as one of my options, also 9mm is pretty cheap. As to availability I have two turner's pretty close and ammo bros and last but not least there is also a bass pro shop 15 mins away from we're i live so I'm hoping when I turn 21 one of these stores will have my options in stock to go and get the feel of them in my hand.. Again thanks guys
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vector16 View Post
This guy has never held a Glock in his life. judging by the statement of "(unlike a Glock) it ejects empty mags with extreme prejudice".

I have never fired a Glock where the empty casing has fallen free. I have shot every glock that is legal on the market. The shells do not drop free.
I am not sure what you are saying here. I own 5 Glocks and over 100 mags total and they all drop free. I have never had to manually pull an empty magazine out of ANY of my Glocks.

Scott
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2013, 12:40 PM
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Orange Turners is prettey low on stock, thats my store. The Bass pro is the store you do not want to buy at. The prices for the pistols is the same as what the manf'r wants. Most stores will have some discount for you but not BPS esspecially the one in Rancho. The one in Manteca is a little bit better but not much and I know you are not going to drive 400 miles, twice to go up there. There are a lot of shops in Fontana and Rialto that have good prices for the items you are looking for. Go to them first. You can put down some money on the gun you want now and then finish paying on your b-day and that is when they will do the DROS.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:57 PM
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In your price range, throw your criteria for "looks" out the window.

IMHO, Glock exceeds your other choices in reliability.

Note that you can often find Glock police trade-ins for G22s for about $400.
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Old 01-25-2013, 1:14 PM
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That's we're I'am at I live in Fontana. I went to the turners in Ontario/Rancho in November and I asked one of the guys with a white shirt (guessing a manager) if he'd help me out I wanted to get a feel for a couple guns since I was gana turn 21 in a couple months(this being in Nov.) and he just straight up said no didn't even ask me if I was interested in looking at a rifle or shotgun just no and that was that I ignored him and looked at there inventory thru glass luckily a employee wade came along and had a good conversation with me about certain handguns even though I wasn't allowed to touch them, the point of this being if they wouldn't even let me touch one I don't think they'll let me do a partial pay for one.. Yeah bass pro is a big no no but might be a place were I could go and get a feel for it when I turn 21.. Do most places carry police trade -ins??
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Old 01-25-2013, 1:41 PM
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Most gun stores as so busy they have a hard time handling all the customers that a waving cash at them, so don't be too hard on them for not helping you although his response was pretty rude.

Seems that around here there are only a couple of places that randomly get in police trade-ins. You just have to ask around and keep checking for them when you are ready to buy.
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PM720 View Post
I am not sure what you are saying here. I own 5 Glocks and over 100 mags total and they all drop free. I have never had to manually pull an empty magazine out of ANY of my Glocks.

Scott
Sorry about that, i thought he was refering to the empty casing after the gun fires, the empty casing shoots right over your head. I just misread the post. The mag drops free. With the ruger, the mag does not shoot out of the frame and make a giant hole in the ground benieth.
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SO.CALISHOOTER View Post
That's we're I'am at I live in Fontana. I went to the turners in Ontario/Rancho in November and I asked one of the guys with a white shirt (guessing a manager) if he'd help me out I wanted to get a feel for a couple guns since I was gana turn 21 in a couple months(this being in Nov.) and he just straight up said no didn't even ask me if I was interested in looking at a rifle or shotgun just no and that was that I ignored him and looked at there inventory thru glass luckily a employee wade came along and had a good conversation with me about certain handguns even though I wasn't allowed to touch them, the point of this being if they wouldn't even let me touch one I don't think they'll let me do a partial pay for one.. Yeah bass pro is a big no no but might be a place were I could go and get a feel for it when I turn 21.. Do most places carry police trade -ins??
You will not be able to get a police trade in. Most of those go to the Orange station for sale. I would not even bother with a police trade anyway. They have thousands of rounds put thru them.
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:32 PM
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Don't bother with Glock haters. If the incompetent, high functioning retard Iraqi police never killed a Glock? That was something that sold me on the quality / reliability forever. I was "neutral" neither love nor hate Glocks, until that deployment. Now, I own a G22 and I would trust my life & my loved one's safety with that piece.

A GOOD (ref: good) 1911 is always a no-fail duty pistol.

Finally - I owned a Ruger P89 and I disliked the pistol. Fit & finish, reliability were average at best. Not the best I've owned.

When I look at the pistols I've currently or previously owned, I ask myself this: "Would I feel good carrying this on deployment to the Middle East?"

The following got resounding "yes"
- Glock 22
- Para Ordnance P14-45 1911 (older model)
- Springfield USGI 1911
- Sig Sauer 226

WOULD NOT like to rely upon them overseas:
- Ruger P89
- Taurus PT92 (Beretta Fs92 mock)
- Beretta 92... LOL!!!
- My revolvers (for obvious rationale)
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:44 PM
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Don't bother with Glock haters.
I sure hope that was not directed at me. If you read my first post i had said that I own 2 of them, G17 and G21. I would not even mess around with a .40 cal if I am spending over $500.

The 9mm is good because the target ammo is cheap and if you get the right round like the 147 gr JHP +p you can easily drop almost anything. I dropped a 130 lb deer with it last season.

The .45 cal is fantasic. its the classic all American round that can drop anyone. evem if you have 230gr Tula's. For PD I have mine loaded with 185gr JHP +p. If an intruder come into my home I can shoot them in the foot and stop their heart beat.
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMFdevildoc View Post
If the incompetent, high functioning retard Iraqi police never killed a Glock?
?? I'm trying to figure out what the heck that means!
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Old 01-25-2013, 2:56 PM
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?? I'm trying to figure out what the heck that means!
Thyat means if the RETARDED IRAQI POLICE never made a GLOCK not work than they are good guns by him. If you have ever had the plessure of seeing a middle eastener try and use a pistol, its quite a site. They do not know what to do with themselves. They are used to only using a 1 shot RPG or IEDs
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Old 01-25-2013, 3:26 PM
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You picked the wrong Ruger my friend.
SR9 - just do it.



Reliable, sturdy, and (unlike a Glock) it ejects empty mags with extreme prejudice. They don't drop free, they shoot out.

Retails around $425 plus dros and tax.
A Glock retails around $560 plus dros and tax.

SR9 comes with an adjustable backstrap (something Glock will make you pay extra for - assuming you can get a GEN4 to begin with), better sight lines, and a much more ergonomic grip.

Note. the one pictured isn't mine (mine is the black version), but this is a good pic of it.
I agree. My SR9 is a great gun, never a hiccup.
What I find funny is getting a Glock is considered "going all out" You're paying too much attention to the interwebs son.
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Old 01-25-2013, 3:48 PM
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Absolutley.
If you can afford it go with a CZ, Colt, Browning, HK, Kimber, Les Bear, Dan Wesson, Sig or Walther. Any of these firearms are by far better than Glock ever could be. BUT, you will PAY for it. My next gun is going to be a Kimber Custom II in .45 1911. I have thought long and hard about it and I will have the $1500 I need to purchase it from turners. The extra mags are $20 so I think I'll get 10 of them.

But in all reality, Don't really listen to some of these guys,. Glock is not the Holy Grail of firearms. The are nice for the money and the are simple to use and clean and they can take aliot of abuse. But so can the other ones we have mentioned before. The Sigma can take alot and still be a great gun for you to have as your first gun. You can put some work into it, not break the bank and have a reliable gun for years and years to come. No one will really want to steal it from you either.
Most of us have agreed the the 1911 is the go to gun for sure and has been battle tested for over 100 years. If you can get the 1911, do it. no matter which 1911 you get you can put a couple hundred bucks into it and get night sights, extra mags, extended beaver tail, skeletonized trigger etc and have a great gun fo many years that will never loose its value. if you get a 1911 in .40 cal you will spend some extra cash but they are pretty rare. I think that Sig makes one. If you can get your hands on a new SR1911 get that one, they are very mice guns, very tight tolerences and lifetime warranty. Glocks do not have a lifetime warranty, they have a 1 year warranty. Ruger do, Sig does and so does S&W.
Bottom line get what feels good to you. Do not buy a gun for the name. If yiou could I would go in blind folded and pick a gun on feel, not looks.
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Old 01-25-2013, 6:00 PM
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@vector16 why not consider a 40. If u spend 500 or more on a gun?? Wow I did not know that about glocks warranty but still they do run forever....@socal44 and @db42 is the SR line one of rugers top handgun at the moment?
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Old 01-25-2013, 6:04 PM
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@eldub1950 I did feel like I got the stink eye from the guy once I mentioned I wasn't 21 yet but hey he probably would of had a sell from me on another item(shotgun or rifle) if he would of been smarter
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Old 01-25-2013, 6:35 PM
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@vector16 why not consider a 40. If u spend 500 or more on a gun?? Wow I did not know that about glocks warranty but still they do run forever....@socal44 and @db42 is the SR line one of rugers top handgun at the moment?
First off, Alot of people that own Glocks think that they do not have to clean them after they go shoot them. Mine are perfect. I clean my guns completely every time I shoot them wether it be 1 round or 500 rounds. If you want you gun to work flawlessly the next time Clean IT. The manual says to clean it every 1000 rounds. Bull S$$$$. clean it every time and you will have a great gun for a long time. This means every gun you own, set a schedule wether you fire the gun or not, clean it every, say, 30 days and also clean it when you are done shooting it. There are a few people here that have seen my guns and they are surprised that they even have 1 round ever fired from them. I had 30K rounds from one of my Sigmas and it looked like it had never been fired at all, no barrel wear, breech wear etc, spotless everytime. The guy that bought one was very happy that he bought from me and not another that did not take as good care of their guns.

The reason why I will not spen real cash on a .40 is because the 40 cal round does not perform well. It does not have the distance of a 9mm and does not have the power of a .45. Really does not have the distance or the power of a .357. Th eSigma that I sold was a .40. Great gun, loved it. If I did not need the cash so damn bad ther would be no way in h3ll i would have sold it. Got the gun for under $400 OTD. The price on the 40 ammo is quite a bit more than the 9mm and is most cases is also more than the .45. The performance of the .40 cal pistols is left with some desire. If I can have one for under $500 than okay maybe. I would for sure buy another Sigma. I know exactly what needs to be done to make it a great gun. I can make the gun have a 4lb trigger and be smoother than any gun on the market.

If you get the Sigma which I do reccomend, shoot me a PM and we can arrange to get together and I'll hepl you out with the trigger and maybe stippling the grip. Below is my old one that I just sold.

SigmaRmag.jpg
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Old 01-25-2013, 6:57 PM
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@vector16 thanks I appreciate the offer if I get the sigma ill PM you.. Do u think for a first handgun it would be smarter to get used to a heavier trigger pull then a lighter one?
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SO.CALISHOOTER View Post
@vector16 why not consider a 40. If u spend 500 or more on a gun?? Wow I did not know that about glocks warranty but still they do run forever....@socal44 and @db42 is the SR line one of rugers top handgun at the moment?
The SR9 was designed to compete directly with the Glock's 19 and 17, and it is perfectly capable of doing so. The SR line is Ruger's best and brightest - with the SR45 having just been released at shot show.

Glock has an excellent warranty and so does Ruger.
If there's anything wrong with your gun Ruger will either fix it or replace it, for free. I only know a few people who've had to send them in for servicing, and all of them got free Ruger swag when the gun was returned.

BTW, avoid the 40cals. The use of the 40 was a bureaucratic decision, not a functional one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SO.CALISHOOTER View Post
@vector16 thanks I appreciate the offer if I get the sigma ill PM you.. Do u think for a first handgun it would be smarter to get used to a heavier trigger pull then a lighter one?
Heavier trigger pull means that you're more likely to make a mistake before you've fired. The more movement, the more chances for error.

Last edited by db42; 01-25-2013 at 7:06 PM..
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:14 PM
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vector16 vector16 is offline
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I think it would be to your advantage to have a gun that would teach you trigger control. That may come with a heavy pull or a longer pull. If you get a gun like an SR40 that has a pretty decent pull on it already you will be spoiled and not ever learn anything about trigger control or how to do your own smithing on a gun.
My wife is a real decent shot with her GP100 .357 with DA trigger. She id not a good shot with my G21 or my G17. her groups get wider if she uses her trigger in SA. I could out shoot anyone with a glock with my Sigma 40 any day of the week. with the lighter trigger I do not pay attention as much to the what is happening at muzzel. When you pull the trigger on any pistol, if you are right handed the muzzel is going to move down and to the left. That is super apperent when you are using a heavy or long trigger pull. If you are able to control that with a heavy pull than it is much easier woth a light pull. You just need to remember to pay attention to WTF you are doing. The thing about the Sigma is that it can really take a beating and still function even if you "limp wrist" it the gun will still fire and not jam up.

I think it may be better to start off with a heavier pull, so yes in answer to you question. If you start off with the heavy pull everything else will be lighter and easier for you to operate in the long term.
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vector16 View Post
I think it would be to your advantage to have a gun that would teach you trigger control. That may come with a heavy pull or a longer pull. If you get a gun like an SR40 that has a pretty decent pull on it already you will be spoiled and not ever learn anything about trigger control or how to do your own smithing on a gun.
Or you could have a gun with a lighter trigger pull, so it will be accurate when you need it to save your life.
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Old 01-25-2013, 7:58 PM
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out of those i would get the glock first, ruger second, and sw last
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:31 PM
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Out of all that were mentioned in this thread, I would do the them in this order because I have all of them. the second list is more prbable given the situation we are in today

1911
p95
sw40ve
XD 40
glock 17
sr40 if it was on the roster
sr9
glock 22 or 23

1911
sigma sw40ve
XD

Glocks are ver hard to come by right now and so are Rugers. Most of the dealers in SO. CAL get the guns from Davidson Fireams. most of us know them better as http://www.galleryofguns.com and if you are looking for something go to them first. Call turners and see what they have.
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:35 PM
SO.CALISHOOTER SO.CALISHOOTER is offline
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@vector16 that is a good point..@spetsnaz I would get them all if I had the money to spend all at once
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Old 01-25-2013, 8:36 PM
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Hey vector - that was a general remark, as we know, some folks LOVE Glocks and there is a small contingent of haters out there.

And yes - that is what I meant - if a mouth breathing, nearly clinically retarded Iraqi Police boot couldn't kill a Glock, that is a damn tough weapon IMO.

I didn't see them all too often, yet the few time I did, those jokers were busy trying to scam Valium or morphine from me... When they weren't busy engaging in rampant corruption, arbitrary tribal-based "law enforcement" and negligent discharges, dereliction of duty, accepting bribes - etc LOL
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