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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:29 PM
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Some shool districts are reviewing using armed guards at schools. I made an offer to cover 1/3 of the cost of a guard for the rest of the school year, and I have been contacted to discuss the actuality of this happening.

The kids and parents in Newtown have asked for the police to remain at the schools.

Wayne was a just a little ahead of his time. The question shouldn't be "should we arm up security at achools," the question should be "why did we ever let it get so weak?"

The struggle is far from over, and there will be a lot of second guessing on tactics. We see a very unified front in the media and with some politicians, but with the public I don't get the same response.

People "get" the 2nd amendment. People don't trust big government and they also don't trust the media blitz.

We still have a chance to win this.
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  #122  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:48 PM
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Coming back to something that was discussed, I think there's definitely a market for a very realistic, non-violent shooting game. In other words, the equivalent of Microsoft Flight Simulator: unlike most flight sims it is explicitly non-violent (no combat involved), but having a flown an airplane after playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, I was amazed at how realistic Microsoft Flight Simulator is.

Naturally building this game without including AR-15 variants, would be like building a flight simulator without including the Cessna 172. I'll readily back this on kickstarter: it's a way to get break both the "guns == violence" and "video games == violence" memes, get more people interested in target shooting, and it would be valuable to sport shooters.

(Probably worth starting this as a separate thread in OT forum)
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  #123  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:48 PM
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Coming back to something that was discussed, I think there's definitely a market for a very realistic, non-violent shooting game. In other words, the equivalent of Microsoft Flight Simulator: unlike most flight sims it is explicitly non-violent (no combat involved), but having a flown an airplane after playing Microsoft Flight Simulator, I was amazed at how realistic Microsoft Flight Simulator is.

Naturally building this game without including AR-15 variants, would be like building a flight simulator without including the Cessna 172. I'll readily back this on kickstarter: it's a way to get break both the "guns == violence" and "video games == violence" memes, get more people interested in target shooting, and it would be valuable to sport shooters.

(Probably worth starting this as a separate thread in OT forum)
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  #124  
Old 01-14-2013, 9:33 AM
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Saying Alan's work is not applied genius is probably the silliest thing you've ever said.

Gura's right on the substantive issues and the only reason this is even a conversation is because people don't like mommy and daddy fighting. There's nothing in the record yet that supports an argument to the contrary.

Here's some advice to everyone calling us armchair quarterbacks: remove thine own pacifier. Note that we're actually fighting the war and you're posting on a web forum.

-Brandon

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Originally Posted by fredieusa View Post
If you heard the recordings you will find out that it was a process they went through. he got to represent (and for that too i am grateful).

There was no unique stroke of GENIUS on his part that led to any victory. These are republican Prez appointed/nominated Justices.

I also recognize that it was a lead that should have been taken by NRA and they pretty much tried jumping on the Bandwagon and hijacking it as their victory.

I am not the devoted NRA fan. I see it for what it is. Gura is piping off here and it is not called for, specially considering he is not presenting any solutions.
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  #125  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post

Note that we're actually fighting the war and you're posting on a web forum.

-Brandon
Oooooh that sting.....
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  #126  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:25 AM
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The big problem is that most people that are "biased" either to the right or left when it comes to gun rights are quick to blame something OTHER than the dickhead mental case who decides to shoot up classrooms. The liberals say "BLAME GUNS!!!!", the conservatives say "BLAME GAMES!!!....and PORN!!!.... and GAY MARRIAGE!!!!... and NO PRAYER IN SCHOOL!!!" There's no convincing either side.

What's the answer? ..... watch violent gay porn while making out with an AR as you play COD.
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  #127  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:53 AM
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"New NRA ‘knowledge’ app includes coffin-shaped targets"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/1...ment-767739461

Commenter: "Aren't these the idiots who've told us guns don't kill people, but video games do?"

Ouch.

-Brandon
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  #128  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Saying Alan's work is not applied genius is probably the silliest thing you've ever said.

Gura's right on the substantive issues and the only reason this is even a conversation is because people don't like mommy and daddy fighting. There's nothing in the record yet that supports an argument to the contrary.

Here's some advice to everyone calling us armchair quarterbacks: remove thine own pacifier. Note that we're actually fighting the war and you're posting on a web forum.

-Brandon
And you do a very good job! Very admirable when you were a volunteer. Now that you get paid to fight for our 2A rights, aren't you basically just doing the job you are paid to do?

There are lots of armchair QB's here for sure. Isn't that what the forum will generally generate? Better to have people talk about it here and learn than be in the dark and only hear what the TV has to say.

Why toot your horn about how hard you work on the 2A? Most here would never question your dedication. Opinions are like.... But why mock every opinion that is not yours?
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  #129  
Old 01-14-2013, 2:54 PM
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This is about my cause, not a career; I'm compensated for some of my time, not all of it. My career is project management. I'm more than happy (actually would prefer to) win and go home. Believe it or not, this isn't fun or a great way to live.

Contrary to your implication, I prefer lively and informative debate and don't believe that gun rights can ever be homogenous. I'm not sure it even should be. I still support NRA's work to defend our rights in spite of my personal view that the video game angle was imprudent.

Perhaps armchair quarterbacks might find their rights harder to infringe if they talked less and worked more.

-Brandon

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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
And you do a very good job! Very admirable when you were a volunteer. Now that you get paid to fight for our 2A rights, aren't you basically just doing the job you are paid to do?

There are lots of armchair QB's here for sure. Isn't that what the forum will generally generate? Better to have people talk about it here and learn than be in the dark and only hear what the TV has to say.

Why toot your horn about how hard you work on the 2A? Most here would never question your dedication. Opinions are like.... But why mock every opinion that is not yours?
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  #130  
Old 01-14-2013, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
This is about my cause, not a career; I'm compensated for some of my time, not all of it. My career is project management. I'm more than happy (actually would prefer to) win and go home. Believe it or not, this isn't fun or a great way to live.

Contrary to your implication, I prefer lively and informative debate and don't believe that gun rights can ever be homogenous. I'm not sure it even should be. I still support NRA's work to defend our rights in spite of my personal view that the video game angle was imprudent.

Perhaps armchair quarterbacks might find their rights harder to infringe if they talked less and worked more.

-Brandon
I like this answer, better than the previous one

And i wasn't trying to implicate you. Just responding to the post you made.

You and i both know that the project management stuff we do, deals with a certain mind set and very much job at hand. (with a get er done attitude) Those parameters don't always work cohesively in other facets of life.
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  #131  
Old 01-14-2013, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by navycorpsman View Post
Dude the NRA has just begun the fight, they have been fighting for gun rights for 100 years I am sure they know what they are doing
I am an NRA life member since 1993.

After the shenanigans the NRA pulled to be involved with Heller and almost managed to screw up Heller, I don't share your confidence. For a large fraction of its history, the NRA has represented the interests of elmer fud hunters and almost nobody else.

The NRA tries to be on the forefront of gun rights defense, but I'll put my money with Gura and SAF on actually getting RKBA stuff done every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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  #132  
Old 01-14-2013, 4:55 PM
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Gura is trying to change the paradigm of the gun rights argument. We don't need to vilify some other group to justify our position. This is a basic right and we have it as part of the checks and balances created by the Constitution. We don't need to justify it or seek approval from any governmental body to have it. And we don't need to make half the population look bad while we're doing it.
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  #133  
Old 01-14-2013, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Extra411 View Post
Blaming video games is ignorant and completely out of touch.



If that's what you got out of GTA, you're playing it wrong. GTA doesn't even have a mission objective of "killing hookers". And "bonus points" for it? Are you just regurgitating anti-gaming rhetoric without checking any facts? Because there are no "bonus points"; the game doesn't even have a "points" scoring system. As all gun owners know, it's important to stick to facts, and I hope you realize how closely you are mimicking anti-gun groups in your approach to video games.

The player can do a lot of things in GTA because the game has a somewhat free-roaming structure. Does the fact that when given freedom in a game, the player can choose to do bad things surprise you? Hell, kids shouldn't even be playing GTA because the game is rated M. Why is the game's existence a problem for you, when it should be apparent that parents shouldn't let kids play those games in the first place? Or do you still subscribe to the mentality that "games are for kids" when the adult demography is incredibly huge?

This new form of "blame the entertainment" rhetoric is getting REALLY old. Why am I even defending the First Amendment on a 2A forum?
I've been reading that the current most likely effect is that the uber-realistic violence is in fact helping by allowing potentially violent people to let off steam without hurting anyone. To get it out of their system so to speak.
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  #134  
Old 01-14-2013, 9:31 PM
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The NRA (and we) are up against a multi-billion dollar media machine that has near-total dominance over the minds of "ordinary" Americans.

It's like expecting the Resistance to be able to outshout Goebbels' Propaganda Ministry.

Most Americans have made themselves suitable only for subjects, not citizens. They choose to be stupid, ignorant, and foolish. Their "opinions" come from television and magazines, either directly, or indirectly through their friends, who are directly influenced.

Thinking is no longer a virtue in our country.

If I received a penny for every time "assault weapon" (used in reference to a semi-automatic rifle) was spewed on a single day in the last month, I'd be filthy rich.
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  #135  
Old 01-14-2013, 9:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
"New NRA ‘knowledge’ app includes coffin-shaped targets"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/1...ment-767739461

Commenter: "Aren't these the idiots who've told us guns don't kill people, but video games do?"

Ouch.

-Brandon
That's debateable. And proves my point: the media controls public opinion. No attempt at reporting, just "thought leadership."

If those are "coffins," they must be for very fat men.
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  #136  
Old 01-15-2013, 12:04 AM
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That's debateable. And proves my point: the media controls public opinion. No attempt at reporting, just "thought leadership."

If those are "coffins," they must be for very fat men.
The media controls an avenue (not the exclusive, but an important one) to create and modify the public's perception. The public's opinion is the public's alone.

It's not helpful when actions reinforce those harmful perceptions.

-Brandon
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  #137  
Old 01-15-2013, 1:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tommyfly View Post
I feel the main reason the NRA failed at delivering its speech was because Wayne is such a horrible public speaker.

I remember many people who saw it on paper saying it was a great speech. But watching Wayne deliver it was like listening to someone read me the dictionary...
Would have to agree. Looking down the entire time doesn't look good on national TV. Teleprompters that run off an Ipad aren't that expensive. And an org with a $250,000,000 per-year budget that can't keep 'Code Pink' out of their press conference...
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  #138  
Old 01-15-2013, 2:22 AM
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Originally Posted by NytWolf View Post
Oh please ...

As the often restated statement goes, "hindsight is 20/20". That's all Alan Gura is doing, giving hindsight. The truth is, and we all know this, the NRA is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. You can't have expected the NRA to come out and say anything that the anti's are going to accept during the emotional time after the CT shooting.
You're quite right and that flies right over some peoples' heads...
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  #139  
Old 01-15-2013, 3:28 AM
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Originally Posted by solipsist View Post
Would have to agree. Looking down the entire time doesn't look good on national TV. Teleprompters that run off an Ipad aren't that expensive. And an org with a $250,000,000 per-year budget that can't keep 'Code Pink' out of their press conference...
$250M/year? Yeah? I seriously don't think so...
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  #140  
Old 01-15-2013, 6:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NytWolf
Oh please ...
As the often restated statement goes, "hindsight is 20/20". That's all Alan Gura is doing, giving hindsight. The truth is, and we all know this, the NRA is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. You can't have expected the NRA to come out and say anything that the anti's are going to accept during the emotional time after the CT shooting.
You're quite right and that flies right over some peoples' heads...
It has nothing to do with hindsight and everything to do with knowing good judgment and an effective media strategy. As far as I can tell the NRA has neither, and that needs to change.
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  #141  
Old 01-15-2013, 6:39 AM
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I thought by far the strongest argument articulated by Mr. LaPierre in that speech was that: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" .

This statement was roundly condemned by those who live by its dictum, that in response to an existential threat one must meet force with force.

This notion has the great advantage of being intuitively obvious to those who oppose it as well as those who promote it. We know that because its chief critics choose to be protected by good guys with guns.




"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" Matthew 7:20 kjv

The President is knee deep in armed good guys 24/7, as is his stand-in, who even now heads a task force bent on denying that protection to ordinary citizens. If these two men at the top of government really believe their own propaganda, let them stand-down the good guys with guns protecting their precious . . . assets.

If the president believes good guys with guns in schools is not the answer to protecting our children from bad guys with guns, let him remove the protection from his children's school and deny himself the peace of mind he enjoys as a benefit of their deployment.

That School also houses the children of our other masters in the federal government, who advocate and implement the president's policies on this matter. So in addition to the removal of the Secret Service detail protecting the Commander in Chief's kids, let them remove the other eleven armed guards protecting their offspring at that school.

Will they do so? Well of course they wont. They wont because they understand fully that the only effective response to a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.

And the proselytizer-in-chief and high priestess of the anti-gun zealots, our own beloved Senator Dianne Goldman Berman Feinstein, who famously, whilst advocating the prohibition of carry permits for the sheeple, carried in her handbag her own gun permit, let her eschew her current retinue of armed bodyguards.

Our current state Attorney General, the indefatigable protector and promoter of California's anti-gun laws and protector of the People's Peace, let her stand down her 24/7 taxpayer-funded armed escort.

If these officers of state and others responsible for our restrictive gun laws, had to live by them, how long do you think such laws would stay in force?

Why do celebrities who make their living glorifying the gun, advocate ever more restriction of our right to keep and bear arms, our call for the repeal of 2A, continue to enjoy the comfort of legal concealed carry weapons, and/or armed personal body guards, whilst seeking to deny the rest of us the same right of self defense?

Well of course they do so because they are amoral, shameless hypocrites. Hypocrites who well understand that the only effective answer to a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

Every minute of every day the same people bent on depriving you of the tools of self defense, are providing us with irrefutable evidence of why it is we need them.
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  #142  
Old 01-15-2013, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
$250M/year? Yeah? I seriously don't think so...
It was $243.5Mil in FY 2010. http://calffl.org/archive/gunorg990s/nra_2010.pdf

Perhaps their expenditures went down since then, with a presidential election and all...

-Brandon
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  #143  
Old 01-15-2013, 8:15 PM
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The WLP speech was awful, and this app was so stupid it's an insult to garden variety stupid people.

I am however finally going with "Life". Fixing the NRA will be easier than building a new org, and being inside the voice is stronger than outside. Besides, we need pressure against right NOW.

My only hope is we can get a modern, civil rights minded person, who can also intelligently string together a public argument based on far more solid ground than WLP, or most other rights advocates, have been able to in the national media. It won't happen today or next month, but this fight won't be over then either.

Imgaine if in the Piers-Ben Shapiro debate, Ben had pulled out the Ebony cover photo of Malcolm X with his fistful of 60 rounds of freedom during the tyranny argument. I guarantee you, someone like Gene would've made that exact point. Devastatingly. Shame on the NRA for not doing so themselves.

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  #144  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NytWolf View Post
Oh please ...

As the often restated statement goes, "hindsight is 20/20". That's all Alan Gura is doing, giving hindsight. The truth is, and we all know this, the NRA is damned if they do, and damned if they don't. You can't have expected the NRA to come out and say anything that the anti's are going to accept during the emotional time after the CT shooting.
This is the truth.

I would, however, like to see the SAF and NRA both sharing Mr. Gura's abilities. He does seem to be a generational talent.
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  #145  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Bull-Puckey!
I've played video games for a few decades now and I'll tell you for a FACT as each new generation of game comes out they are more violent, more graphic, the game play rewards more and more amoral actions and the people who say it has no influence are full of crap up to their brown eyes.

The industry responds to what the market wants and as kids grow up 'stabbing the hooker to death so I don't have to pay her', and getting bonus points for it, they start looking for something 'edgier' because stabbing the hooker is just the norm.

The original Texas Chainsaw Massacre was the most shocking, grotesque and graphically violent movie in history at the time of it's release. Now with all the slasher/torture/mutilation flicks kids are seeing Texas Chainsaw Massacre can be shown on public TV uncut!

How much do Super Bowl commercials cost?
Do you really think that people will pay tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for 15-30 seconds of air time if it didn't affect and influence people?

How many of the lying hypocrites telling us that their movies, TV shows or songs don't affect anyone have gone on to tell us as they win some award how proud they are that their art and talent has influenced so many people?

The NRA didn't 'fail' and Wayne LaPierre didn't misspeak, he told the truth and even gun owners have hobby horses they are willing to blind themselves over.
This oversimplifies things, however. It isn't only the ever increasing exposure to violent images, it is also our enabling culture. Everyone has now been raised with the idea that whatever we do is "understandable" and someone else's fault. There is a complete disconnect with personal responsibility. If you commit heinous crimes, "it was your parent's fault" for how they raised you.
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  #146  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:19 PM
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The NRA argument is mostly great: the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun IS a good guy with a gun. Who that exactly is should be left to each school district to decide on it's own. Localized control is always better than top down dictate from the State capital, much less DC. It may be private security or armed staff or it may be a teacher with a CCW. Certainly not EVERY single teacher needs to be armed. Just enough to make a potential mass murderer think twice if not one that could actually put him down. Sandy Hook could have been stopped if the Principal alone had been armed. Certainly an armed security could have responded once the Principal was shot, if not when he entered the building (by shooting the glass door).

Everything else, from video games to the civil rights angle is a distraction to that very simple fact on larger social and civil issues. NRA should keep it's focus simpler and on a tighter focus and use an eloquent spokesman who doesn't need to be the head of the organization. Chuck Woolery, etc would be perfect.
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"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

9mm + 5.56mm =
.45ACP + 7.62 NATO =
10mm + 6.8 SPC =


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