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  #1  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:27 PM
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Default Active Military from Texas buy from pirvate party?

I am a private party selling a long gun and an active Military on vacation from Texas wants to buy it but he is leaving to go home this Saturday.
Is there any way for this transaction to happen and being he is in the Military does he have to wait 10 days for the long gun. does he even have to do a dros?
He does have his ID and hold a Conceal and Carry Permit from Texas.
thanks for any info.
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisout View Post
I am a private party selling a long gun and an active Military on vacation from Texas wants to buy it but he is leaving to go home this Saturday.
Is there any way for this transaction to happen and being he is in the Military does he have to wait 10 days for the long gun. does he even have to do a dros?
He does have his ID and hold a Conceal and Carry Permit from Texas.
thanks for any info.
I believe federally one can only buy a gun in a state that borders his state of residence.... but when he does so, he has to follow the gun laws of that state.

California requires that only residents can purchase guns, and must prove residency before doing so, so a visitor cannot buy a gun in California.

Now.. if he moved to California, and the gun was older than 50 years old, he could have bought it from you without a gun dealer... cash and carry... and then moved back to Texas without filling out any paperwork....
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The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
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12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.

Last edited by E Pluribus Unum; 01-09-2013 at 11:35 PM..
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:44 PM
Rhythm of Life Rhythm of Life is offline
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If he had orders stating he was stationed in CA yes.... but still must do 10 day wait.
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:01 AM
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I believe when active military are anywhere they have orders and read that one but the ten day wait would kill the deal. I did not know if his Conceal and carry permit would be good in Cali. and if it would work the same way as in other states. I believe some other States allow CCW from other states and also allow the holder to not have to go through a waiting period or even do a dros. just a copy of ID and ccw along with a picture of the buyer. the rifle is not C&R.
Seems active Military should have some exceptions from the 10 wait if not it does not seem right.

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Originally Posted by Rhythm of Life View Post
If he had orders stating he was stationed in CA yes.... but still must do 10 day wait.
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisout View Post
I believe when active military are anywhere they have orders and read that one but the ten day wait would kill the deal. I did not know if his Conceal and carry permit would be good in Cali. and if it would work the same way as in other states. I believe some other States allow CCW from other states and also allow the holder to not have to go through a waiting period or even do a dros. just a copy of ID and ccw along with a picture of the buyer. the rifle is not C&R.
Seems active Military should have some exceptions from the 10 wait if not it does not seem right.
Not applicable here... the guy is active duty military visiting here.... no orders placing him in California means, he's just like a civilian... visiting California...

I just thought of something....


You could go to a local gun dealer and work out a sale...

You sell it to the gun dealer for X.... gun dealer agrees to sell it to Texas resident once he returns home for X+Y, and then transfer it to a gun dealer in his home town.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:32 AM
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chrisout chrisout is offline
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I believe he may have orders here but the second scenario may work except for the shipping costs. I respect the military and have already offered him a substantial discount. I can not pay for shipping too so we will see. I will ask Robert at Elite Arms in Manteca tomorrow. maybe they will give some sort of discount for Military. I saw something about law enforcement and Military on the front of the shop glass.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2013, 1:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisout View Post
I believe he may have orders here but the second scenario may work except for the shipping costs. I respect the military and have already offered him a substantial discount. I can not pay for shipping too so we will see. I will ask Robert at Elite Arms in Manteca tomorrow. maybe they will give some sort of discount for Military. I saw something about law enforcement and Military on the front of the shop glass.
That's why you need to go in and talk to them....

You would be selling the rifle to the gun store... shipping, and transfer fees would be negotiated by the Texan. You offering him a substantial discount makes it more likely he can do this economically.

Example:

Rifle worth $1000.

You want to sell it to Texan for $600.00.

Instead... you sell it to gun store for $600.00, they sell it to Texan, and arrange to ship it to a Texas FFL for $750.00.... Texan's FFL charges $50 to receive rifle... Texan has possession of rifle for $800, both gun stores have compensation for being involved....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2013, 1:44 AM
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...... or you could drive to El Paso Texas... give the man the rifle, have him pay you the money... and then you can drive home.... private party sales are legal in Texas...


P.S.

El Paso Texas is closer to Los Angeles, Ca. than it is Beaumont Texas.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2013, 3:32 AM
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Librarian Librarian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
...... or you could drive to El Paso Texas... give the man the rifle, have him pay you the money... and then you can drive home.... private party sales are legal in Texas...
But interstate sales, CA resident to TX resident (in this case by virtue of PCS orders to TX) requires an FFL in the receiver's state.

See also http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873 and think TX-resident rather than CA.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2013, 8:04 AM
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not going to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
...... or you could drive to El Paso Texas... give the man the rifle, have him pay you the money... and then you can drive home.... private party sales are legal in Texas...


P.S.

El Paso Texas is closer to Los Angeles, Ca. than it is Beaumont Texas.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
But interstate sales, CA resident to TX resident (in this case by virtue of PCS orders to TX) requires an FFL in the receiver's state.

See also http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873 and think TX-resident rather than CA.
Technically speaking....

In Texas, private party transfer is legal without a dealer... as long as one believes the other is of age, and is not a degenerate. How's he supposed to know the guy is from California?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Technically speaking....

In Texas, private party transfer is legal without a dealer... as long as one believes the other is of age, and is not a degenerate. How's he supposed to know the guy is from California?
I don't know about Texas, but in most places suggesting someone risk 5 years in Federal Prison is not a friendly act.

And at Calguns, it's a violation of terms of membership.
__________________
Calguns Wiki, Magazine Qs, Knife laws

Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
- most questions that start 'Is it legal ...' go there.

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  #13  
Old 01-10-2013, 2:02 PM
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Well the Texas who turns out in from Cali but stationed in Texas did not want to wait ten days or pay for shipping so no sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisout View Post
I am a private party selling a long gun and an active Military on vacation from Texas wants to buy it but he is leaving to go home this Saturday.
Is there any way for this transaction to happen and being he is in the Military does he have to wait 10 days for the long gun. does he even have to do a dros?
He does have his ID and hold a Conceal and Carry Permit from Texas.
thanks for any info.
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2013, 2:03 PM
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chrisout chrisout is offline
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Well the Texas who turns out in from Cali but stationed in Texas did not want to wait ten days or pay for shipping so no sale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisout View Post
I am a private party selling a long gun and an active Military on vacation from Texas wants to buy it but he is leaving to go home this Saturday.
Is there any way for this transaction to happen and being he is in the Military does he have to wait 10 days for the long gun. does he even have to do a dros?
He does have his ID and hold a Conceal and Carry Permit from Texas.
thanks for any info.
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2013, 3:35 PM
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E Pluribus Unum E Pluribus Unum is offline
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I don't know about Texas, but in most places suggesting someone risk 5 years in Federal Prison is not a friendly act.

And at Calguns, it's a violation of terms of membership.
Relax man.. it was toungue-in-cheek... did you see the " "

Like someone is going to drive to texas and back rather than pay for shipping... you should have known it was a joke.

Besides that, I already said in my first post one can only purchase a gun in a state that borders his state of residence.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gura
The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meplat View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse……..except for police.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-10-2013, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
Relax man.. it was toungue-in-cheek... did you see the " "

Like someone is going to drive to texas and back rather than pay for shipping... you should have known it was a joke.

Besides that, I already said in my first post one can only purchase a gun in a state that borders his state of residence.
I am 'professionally', if you will, unable to see 5 years in jail as a joking matter.

And that bit about adjoining states changed to any state in 1999 -
Quote:
Subsec. (b)(3)(A). Pub. L. 99–308, § 102(4)(B), inserted a new cl. (A) and struck out former cl. (A) which provided that par. (3) “shall not apply to the sale or delivery of a rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State contiguous to the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the purchaser’s State of residence permits such sale or delivery by law, the sale fully complies with the legal conditions of sale in both such contiguous States, and the purchaser and the licensee have, prior to the sale, or delivery for sale, of the rifle or shotgun, complied with all of the requirements of section 922 (c) applicable to intrastate transactions other than at the licensee’s business premises,”.
It now says
Quote:
[It's a crime for a dealer to deliver ... ] (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located,

except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun

to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located

if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States

(and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
the details do not matter until the Governor signs or allows the bill to become law.

Ask CA law questions in the How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me Forum
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Last edited by Librarian; 01-10-2013 at 4:31 PM..
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2013, 4:45 PM
HappyCamper781 HappyCamper781 is offline
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As I understand it, it's a legal sale. (IANAL)

As he is stationed in Texas, he must abide by all Texas gun sale laws.

As you are in a Cali resident, you must abide by all California laws, so you still need a FFL PPT + 10 day wait either way, and the FFL can ship to out of state, provided all laws in customer's state of resident are being met as well.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2013, 4:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCamper781 View Post
As I understand it, it's a legal sale. (IANAL)

As he is stationed in Texas, he must abide by all Texas gun sale laws.

As you are in a Cali resident, you must abide by all California laws, so you still need a FFL PPT + 10 day wait either way, and the FFL can ship to out of state, provided all laws in customer's state of resident are being met as well.
Your ARE correct although he has residency in Cali also. Also as the law states, any active military has residency where there current orders are even if it is for weeks.
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