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  #41  
Old 01-01-2013, 5:58 PM
lawdawg0417 lawdawg0417 is offline
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Im just starting into reloading and I can say i have been tempted to grab brass laying around but in the end I follow the rules. Must agree brass hole is a great name.
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  #42  
Old 01-01-2013, 8:34 PM
drkphibr drkphibr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taloft View Post
Most ranges have rules against taking photographs of other people without their permission. I'd be careful, you might find that you are the one getting asked to leave.

.
Hmmmm...
  1. Signs all over the place about brass "rules".
  2. Not a single sign prohibiting photography at the range and a public range at that
  3. Dude was snagging the brass from our lane bucket with an active shooter.
Ummm, who's in the wrong here?

Last edited by drkphibr; 01-01-2013 at 8:36 PM.. Reason: spelling of course
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  #43  
Old 01-01-2013, 8:45 PM
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This is why hammers where invented for slime, sneaky gollum fingers reaching into buckets.
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  #44  
Old 01-01-2013, 9:23 PM
keenkeen keenkeen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixoclockhold View Post
My RSO tells me when someone is shooting or shot my caliber and tells me to go get it.

Try giving the RSO a soda and chips once in a while.
Teacher's pet.

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  #45  
Old 01-02-2013, 4:42 AM
Wrangler John Wrangler John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classwarfare View Post
So here is my problem with that. You sell the brass as scrap, right? So it is taken out of circulation. Why not just let those of us who are, how shall we say, very diligent brass recyclers pay for the scrap value of other people's brass when we leave the range? We get brass, you get your money and it's a win/win.
Liability.

There is no way to know the history or condition of the brass, especially rifle brass. If the brass is given or sold to an individual for reloading and a case fails causing injury, whether or not the cause was due to the reloader, a liability claim can ensue. Because public agencies have deeper pockets than individuals, we can expect a lawsuit. Many public agencies are self-insured, with stop loss policies from commercial insurance underwriters to cover major losses, so that risk management departments establish policy to reduce exposure. The range official that told you about the .223 Remington brass and suggested you take it, was exposing the range to liability. Many local governments have legal departments staffed with attorneys to litigate such claims, however there is a cost to each department that generates a liability claim in that the counsel's time is billed to the agency, so even if the case is bogus or settled out of court, there can be considerable expense involved.

If the policy is to allow the shooter to collect only their own brass, and forbid collecting any range brass, with a rule to that effect clearly posted where enforcement can result in ejection from the range, then the collector was violating range policy. In effect he or she was stealing from the range and agency, lessening the liability on the part of the range.

In the case of selling or trading pistol brass to a commercial reloading company, that sale is done under a vendor agreement, essentially a contract, that both parties agree to and that stipulates that the range makes no guarantee to the suitability of the brass to be reloaded, stipulating that the vendor has the responsibility to clean and inspect all brass to ensure it is within industry (SAMMI) standards and free of defects. The reloader in this instance is accepting the liability for the finished product, and must provide the agency or range a Certificate of Insurance for a one million dollar liability policy that names the agency/range as additionally insured. Given that reloads are for target use only, and use cast lead wad cutter bullets at low velocities, there is a lessened probability of an injury ensuing.

The same conditions are stipulated in the agreement between a metal scrapper and the agency, including the Certificate of Insurance. In this instance the agency/range is selling the brass as scrap with the understanding that it will not be used for reloading.

I never pick up brass from the range for any use, it is totally unknown as to how many firings it has undergone. When I shoot at any range I am very careful to retrieve my fired brass, so no one else will be harmed by reloading a case near exhaustion.

There is another reason for this in that my fired cases headstamp often do not reflect the actual cartridge. For example, if I form .257 Roberts or 6mm Remington from 7mm Mauser, or 7mm IHMSA from .308 Winchester, or 7mm IHMSA-Rimmed from .30-30 Winchester, or 6.5-284 from .284 Winchester brass the headstamp will not match. Joe Schmo comes along and tries to reload it and at the minimum may break a decapping stem.

Reloading is a potentially hazardous activity, which is why firearms manufacturers usually include a disclaimer in their manuals to the effect that use of reloaded ammunition is not recommended and the use of reloaded ammunition voids any warranty.

Nothing in this life is ever simple.

Last edited by Wrangler John; 01-02-2013 at 5:04 AM..
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  #46  
Old 01-02-2013, 6:19 PM
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Socalman Socalman is offline
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Why do I think Wrangler John has either a law or insurance background?
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  #47  
Old 01-02-2013, 6:25 PM
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I have done this and offered the range owner $3/lb for the brass I took. .300WM is about $1/caseing. No harm no foul.
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  #48  
Old 01-02-2013, 6:38 PM
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If the range didnt have a problem with it i dont see why anyone else should care. He could work there, be the range owners son, be the range owner etc... Or he could have a deal with the range to go take his pickings and pay for what he takes.

If the Range officer didnt have enough of a problem with it to go stop him then i say let him be.
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  #49  
Old 01-02-2013, 6:38 PM
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If the range didnt have a problem with it i dont see why anyone else should care. He could work there, be the range owners son, be the range owner etc... Or he could have a deal with the range to go take his pickings and pay for what he takes.

If the Range officer didnt have enough of a problem with it to go stop him then i say let him be.
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  #50  
Old 01-02-2013, 10:49 PM
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yeah seriously. you guys aren't shooting enough if you have time to watch and talk about someone picking up brass.

leave the man be.
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  #51  
Old 01-03-2013, 2:42 AM
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From the pics, it appears that it happened at the Livermore Pleasanton Rod and Gun Club. Range policy is you can collect your own brass.

Last edited by slopoke; 01-03-2013 at 2:46 AM..
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  #52  
Old 01-04-2013, 7:01 AM
drkphibr drkphibr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindwreck View Post
yeah seriously. you guys aren't shooting enough if you have time to watch and talk about someone picking up brass.

leave the man be.
Hard not to take notice of this when we have multiple shooters with us in a single lane (rest of us waiting our turns) and seeing this guy hop from lane/bucket to lane/bucket and doing so right in front of us in our lane as well with an active shooter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slopoke View Post
From the pics, it appears that it happened at the Livermore Pleasanton Rod and Gun Club. Range policy is you can collect your own brass.
Yes, range policy is one can collect their own brass...he seems to have an interpretation issue with the words "your own" or can't distinguish his brass on the ground from his brass that may have landed in the bucket...in every lane.

He apparently played too much Zero Wing when younger and now applies the phrase "All your base are belong to us" with a slight modification..."All your brass are belong to me".
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