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  #1  
Old 10-30-2012, 6:20 PM
Colonel Monk Colonel Monk is offline
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Default What Permits are required to import "assault" weapons and convert to CA legal

Gents:

The supply of CA-legal weapons for import into the state is pretty thin. Distributors are out of them all the time.

They seem to be located in states that don't have "assault" restrictions for obvious reasons.

Question is, what permits are required to import, convert to CA legal, and sell these firearms?

We are re-applying for FFL 07 (from 01) anyway, and have plans to apply for Assault Weapons Permit to serve our LE customers. Will this allow us to do the conversion ourselves?

Thanks,

CM
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  #2  
Old 10-30-2012, 11:38 PM
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Need the assault weapons permit, in order to legally import/possess assault weapons.
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2012, 6:56 AM
Colonel Monk Colonel Monk is offline
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Thanks for your reply.

I do understand that the Dangerous Weapons / Assault Weapon permit is the one required to import / export - however, I was hoping someone could just elaborate a little...

AW permit combined with FFL07 - is this ALL the permitting required to put these guns into a CA-legal configuration? So with both we're high, tight, and legal?

Thanks,

CM
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2012, 6:37 PM
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Update thru another source - seems that having the AW / FFL07 combo does indeed make this possible.

Finding information is like pulling teeth. I know, "welcome to FFL-dom"....

CM
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  #5  
Old 10-31-2012, 9:27 PM
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Does anyone know where to find the official AW application and information? I've been looking for it online and can't seem to find it.
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  #6  
Old 10-31-2012, 9:33 PM
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start here for the forms, http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/forms
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  #7  
Old 10-31-2012, 9:34 PM
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It's the Dangerous Weapons Permit app, http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...D030DWapp.pdf?
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2012, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby's Tactical View Post
Does anyone know where to find the official AW application and information? I've been looking for it online and can't seem to find it.
Keep us posted on how this goes. Not an easy endeavor... I have the app. Scary as hell. We may delve into it at some point.



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  #9  
Old 11-01-2012, 8:01 AM
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Thanks for posting that Librarian, I was about to...

It's tough to find because if you search for "Assault Weapons Permit" you'll only find the one for Military personnel.

Now, for those of you who have applied, can you offer some advice on doing it right?

The good cause statement for us is pretty easy - it's for serving our Law Enforcement customers.

But, I'm confused about the references and the section in the instructions that mentions something about attaching letters....

Are we supposed to get letters of reference to include with the permit? Or is it optional, but expected?

We've got several LE customers that we could get to help us out, would just be nice to know just what DOJ is looking for.

Thanks again,

CM
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2012, 8:45 AM
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Now please don't quote me, but I am pretty sure those letters are required and they are required to come from the agency, not the officers.
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Rabbit View Post
Now please don't quote me, but I am pretty sure those letters are required and they are required to come from the agency, not the officers.
I haven't found anything in the instructions for the DW/AW permit that indicates this.

OK, from the permit application:

No dangerous weapons license or permit shall be issued to any applicant who fails to establish good cause for such license or permit or if issuance of the license or permit would endanger the public safety. (Cal. Code Regs., tit.11, 4128, subd. (b).) Applicants are required to provide clear and convincing evidence that there is a bona fide market or public necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit and that the applicants can satisfy that need without endangering public safety. (Cal. Code Regs., tit.11, 4128, subd. (c).) Examples of good cause recognized by the California Department of Justice (DOJ) to establish the bona fide necessity of the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit are listed in DOJ's regulations. (Cal. Code Regs., tit.11, 4128, subd. (c).) Below, please describe the clear and convincing evidence of the necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit to you and your ability to satisfy that necessity without endangering the public safety (use additional sheet(s) as necessary)

Regarding submission of the permit application:

A completed dangerous weapons application package consists of this completed form, including your ATI number obtained from the Live Scan operator upon your submission of your fingerprint impressions; all applicable documentation of necessity as required by California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 4132 (all federal, state, and local licenses as required, as well as all relevant reference letters and other forms of documentation of necessity as applicable), and a check or money order remittance in the proper amount, payable to the Department of Justice.

Nowhere here does it say that you NEED documentation from OFFICIAL channels.

I have tried to find some info on Title 11 4128 and it says the following regarding the legitimate need:

(c) To establish good cause, an applicant must provide the Department
with clear and convincing evidence that there is a bona fide market or
public necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons permit or li-
cense and that the applicant can satisfy that need without endangering
public safety. Except as provided by Penal Code Section 12095, good
causes recognized by the Department to establish a bona fide necessity
for issuance of dangerous weapons permits or licenses include the fol-
lowing:

(1) Sales to and/or manufacture for sales to law enforcement, military and/or dangerous weapon permittees/licensees.

(5) Repair and maintenance of dangerous weapons lawfully possessed
by others.


(7) The sale of assault weapons and/or the manufacture of assault
weapons for the sale to, purchase by, or possession of assault weapons
by: the agencies listed in subdivision (e), and the officers described in subdivision (f) of Section 12280; entities and persons who have been issued assault weapon permits; entities outside the state who have, in effect, a federal firearms dealer's license solely for the purpose of distribution to an entity listed herein; federal law enforcement and military agencies; law enforcement and military agencies of other states; and foreign governments and agencies approved by the United States State Department.

(8) Use of dangerous weapons for the design, manufacture, demonstration, and sales of dangerous weapons accessories to law enforcement and military agencies, qualifying peace officers, and California dangerous weapons licensee/permittees.


OK, so where I've seen somewhere else in my research on AUTOMATIC weapons permits the written demonstrated imminent need for the permit to sell to LE/Military, I do not see the same language written here regarding the Assault Weapons Permit.

What I read from the excerpts in the law I quoted above, is that if you have opportunity to sell an assault weapon or to do gunsmithing for a law enforcement officer who has AW permit, then you should be granted this permit.

My understanding is that it is not very difficult for LE officers to obtain permission to own an assault weapon for personal/duty use and training.

So just what kind of letters/documentation is required for the AW permit then?

tHANKS,

CM
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2012, 11:44 AM
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my apologies if I sounded like I disagreed with you in what the DOJ site states as 'requirements'. I'm simply operating off of my conversation with the DOJ agents that visited us for our initial inspection etc.

I'll simply leave you with this.... if it was only a matter of "Joe Smith, LAPD wants to buy an AW.", I would have the permit already.

Good luck.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2012, 11:46 AM
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Remember, submitting this application will recite a response. They will check all your references and they will contact the officers on the letters. In my case it also initiated an immediate inspection.
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2012, 12:47 PM
Colonel Monk Colonel Monk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Rabbit View Post
my apologies if I sounded like I disagreed with you in what the DOJ site states as 'requirements'. I'm simply operating off of my conversation with the DOJ agents that visited us for our initial inspection etc.

I'll simply leave you with this.... if it was only a matter of "Joe Smith, LAPD wants to buy an AW.", I would have the permit already.

Good luck.
No, sorry - all you're hearing is the the frustration of trying to figure out exactly what the heck the requirements actually are.

Stop being simple - what are the requirements? What did DOJ tell you needed to happen to be approved? This is the information nobody seems to have.

much appreciated,

CM
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2012, 12:52 PM
Colonel Monk Colonel Monk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
Remember, submitting this application will recite a response. They will check all your references and they will contact the officers on the letters. In my case it also initiated an immediate inspection.
Polish Mike,

Yeah, we figured as much. As yet, our FFL has not had an inspection since we opened 4 years ago. It seems long overdue.

So, sounds like you've been thru it. Did you get the permit? Can you shed some light on your experience?

Thanks,

CM
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2012, 1:50 PM
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I was told 'Command level' letter is required. Being this is Cali, I don't see them handing these out withut showing absolute need. If my little brain remembers correctly, the wording was...... you need letters <3> from law enforcement command lvl, can be prisons etc saying that they are in need of a new supplier/armoror and that they intend to purchase from you pretty much immediately.
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2012, 4:34 PM
Colonel Monk Colonel Monk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Rabbit View Post
I was told 'Command level' letter is required. Being this is Cali, I don't see them handing these out withut showing absolute need. If my little brain remembers correctly, the wording was...... you need letters <3> from law enforcement command lvl, can be prisons etc saying that they are in need of a new supplier/armoror and that they intend to purchase from you pretty much immediately.
Hi Rabbit,

What permit were you trying to get? AW or Machine gun?

I ask, because somewhere in my research I did find a requirement like that for the machine gun permit.... But for obvious reasons, I was under the impression that getting an AW permit was not as difficult, because AW are not NFA weapons.

The SBR, SBS, DD, and MG permits are really in a completely different echelon of weapons since you need ATF's express approval to own them.

This is not the case with AW, in just about any other state they are just another rifle. (as it should be...)

I know of a few FFLs here in CA that have AW permits and use the permits to import "AW" and then make them CA - compliant. But nobody seems to be willing to discuss what it took to get the permit.

Perhaps it's time to hire a lawyer to suss this out. Been planning to do this anyway, but thought we'd move forward with some of our own due diligence first.

Regards,

CM
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2012, 7:50 AM
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The AW permit. And yes, our intention was bringing in non compliant and making them compliant before selling. Along with of course, selling to LE. I have the permit application at home... damn thing is literally an inch thick. Hell, I would have needed to buy a new car <Done now anyway so at least I can check one thing off the 'list'. Woohoo love new car smell.> before applying because my Dodge Magnum had no separate trunk etc or buy a box which yeah, no thanks.

We will attempt this eventually, but having only been open a month, we are still establishing everything. I wish someone with one would speak up too, it would be nice to 'see' what fiery hoops they jumped through from someone with true experience.

Best of luck to you CM
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  #19  
Old 01-01-2013, 5:32 PM
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Can't you list the as your bona fide market that you will be selling CA compliant versus of the altered AW? Seems easier to say that than find an LEO that wants or needs AW.

E.g. "The applicant intends to take firearms that are AWs and alter them so that they are no longer meet the definition of AWs under California law and then sell these compliant firearms in CA. There is currently significant market demand for CA compliant firearms in the marketplace that is not being met by the current manufacturers and gun alteration specialists. In addition, the applicant foresees the expansion of CA style regulation into other states and wants to be prepared to provide safe and compliant firearms in those markets as well."
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