Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-13-2011, 3:35 PM
Kamikaze Kamikaze is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 35
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default glove legality question

This seemed like the best place to ask this, Im pretty sure SAP gloves are illegal in california(right?) but what about camelbak fr magnum force gloves? http://www.amazon.com/FR-MAG-FORCE-G...8548684&sr=8-1
arent they kinda the same thing? They both have something to protect your knuckles.

Last edited by Kamikaze; 10-13-2011 at 4:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-13-2011, 4:29 PM
Falconis Falconis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,691
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I will have to look up the specifics, but I think the big difference is are they weighted or just reinforced at the knuckles. My motorcycle riding gloves have carbon fiber reinforcements on them at the knuckle area. If the gloves were weighted, I know for a fact that would pose a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-13-2011, 4:32 PM
Norcal Industries's Avatar
Norcal Industries Norcal Industries is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: sacramento, california
Posts: 1,257
iTrader: 64 / 100%
Default

dang, those are pricey too.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-13-2011, 4:46 PM
Kamikaze Kamikaze is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 35
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconis View Post
I will have to look up the specifics, but I think the big difference is are they weighted or just reinforced at the knuckles. My motorcycle riding gloves have carbon fiber reinforcements on them at the knuckle area. If the gloves were weighted, I know for a fact that would pose a problem.
Oh thanks, if I did have a pair of SAP gloves would I be able to sell them to someone out of state or is it illegal to ship them from CA?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-13-2011, 4:49 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 22,959
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norcal Industries View Post
dang, those are pricey too.
Yes and no.

I've seen a lot of motorcycling gloves priced at well over that.
Icon (I think) makes a glove with titanium-reinforced knuckles.
__________________
-- Rich


Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-13-2011, 5:39 PM
TrailerparkTrash's Avatar
TrailerparkTrash TrailerparkTrash is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DPRK- Democratic People's Republic of Koreafornia
Posts: 1,678
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

SAP gloves are cool. Just as a conversation-piece that is..........
__________________


My views:

-I hate being bipolar its awesome.

-Life member, NRA
-10mm. Because .45ACP just doesn't cut it anymore.
-Hold my beer. Watch this.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-13-2011, 10:27 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,850
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze View Post
Oh thanks, if I did have a pair of SAP gloves would I be able to sell them to someone out of state or is it illegal to ship them from CA?
Simple possession of sap gloves in CA is illegal.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011




If You Heard The Shot, You Weren't The Target
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-14-2011, 11:22 AM
Kamikaze Kamikaze is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 35
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Simple possession of sap gloves in CA is illegal.
Oh well I guess its a good thing I dont have them then
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-14-2011, 3:41 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 22,959
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

__________________
-- Rich


Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-14-2011, 3:52 PM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,579
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
I was thinking that same thing
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-14-2011, 4:12 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 22,959
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClamperSir View Post
I was thinking that same thing
The " " was what did it.
__________________
-- Rich


Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-14-2011, 4:14 PM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,579
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The " " was what did it.
Yeah real sly
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-14-2011, 4:15 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 22,959
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClamperSir View Post
Yeah real sly
Probably a good thing Ron is retired now
__________________
-- Rich


Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-14-2011, 4:16 PM
MrClamperSir's Avatar
MrClamperSir MrClamperSir is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Almost Paradise
Posts: 2,579
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Haha, he probably isn't aware of who he was winking at.
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
Its very rare LEO encounter some armed crazy who is going to kill them, but it happens enough to warrant their training....... And its rare to encounter LEO willing to lie, cheat and falsify testimony, but it happens enough to warrant invoking all your rights the second you are stopped.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-14-2011, 4:19 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 10,759
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Never liked Sap Gloves, too obvious. Now a palm sap under regular leather gloves, that's another story.
__________________


Ignorance can be educated.
Crazy can be medicated.
But there is no cure for stupid.


Police Brutality? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114

NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-14-2011, 4:45 PM
Kamikaze Kamikaze is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 35
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClamperSir View Post
Haha, he probably isn't aware of who he was winking at.
Actually I am aware that he is a retired LEO it says it in his signature. I also dont have SAP gloves and just put the "" because the questions I was asking makes it seem like I own a pair.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-23-2011, 7:27 PM
Gnome's Avatar
Gnome Gnome is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,693
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze View Post
Actually I am aware that he is a retired LEO it says it in his signature. I also dont have SAP gloves and just put the "" because the questions I was asking makes it seem like I own a pair.
I doubt any LEO (retired or active) on this forum care what you do or don't have in the privacy of your own home.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Pluribus Unum View Post
During Y2K my neighbor and I were talking and he said he had a basement full of water and canned food. He asked if I had stocked up and I said that I had. I told him I bought a 12 guage shotgun, a .308 rifle and several bricks of .22 ammo.

He is an anti-gun guy and he said. "Well, you can't eat ammunition". I replied with "When I'm starving to death with a case of ammunition, who's door do you think I am going to knock on?"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-12-2012, 5:15 PM
Anchors's Avatar
Anchors Anchors is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default Confused

Okay I'm confused.
I know this thread is old, but as far as I can tell, SAP gloves are not illegal in California. Some seasoned LEOs here seem to think they are, while others don't. And some of the "in the know" people here seem to also think they are not illegal.
Disclaimer: I don't own them, nor do I think they're that great of defensive weapons (did own them when I was younger and lived in Arizona, they kind of suck for anything other than conversational pieces. Sold them to a buddy for $10 I think haha).

Can I get clarification?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
A sap is not the same thing as "sap gloves." There was a bill last session to make weighted gloves illegal but then the legislature realized that would make all sorts of motorcycle gloves illegal.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
As I said above, SAP Gloves - even if those are and I doubt they are - are not controlled in California. Just because some LEO tried to charge BWO with something that doesn't exist doesn't mean its illegal.

-Gene
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt C View Post
Just saw this... Throw the gloves away. Lots of POST academies teach that weighted or armored gloves are illegal as "SAP" gloves. There is no such thing in the penal code, but it will take a lot of money resolve the issue if you get popped for them. Totally not worth it. My motorcycle gloves are all leather now.

And yes, any blunt object used or intended to be used as a weapon is a felony to possess. There is case law on that. (that did not even apply to me and it was still harder to beat than the AW stuff...)

Last edited by Anchors; 12-12-2012 at 9:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-12-2012, 5:18 PM
Armed24-7's Avatar
Armed24-7 Armed24-7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 268
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze View Post
Oh well I guess its a good thing I dont have them then
LOL....good thing indeed!
__________________

"If you expect logic associated with California law, it will only make your head hurt.." - Ron-Solo, 2013
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-12-2012, 6:57 PM
bohoki's Avatar
bohoki bohoki is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 95492
Posts: 17,807
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

yea i cant find the law banning them

they are not billies or brass knuckles they are heavy gloves
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-12-2012, 9:06 PM
Anchors's Avatar
Anchors Anchors is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
yea i cant find the law banning them

they are not billies or brass knuckles they are heavy gloves
I'm going to put sap gloves in the same bin that bullet button AR15s were in before they became accepted practice.
Completely legal, but most officers (and people in general) are going to assume it isn't.
Best not to push it as there isn't going to be that much support for sap gloves like there was for black rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-12-2012, 9:13 PM
rolncode3's Avatar
rolncode3 rolncode3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 134
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

PC 22210 clearly states that saps are illegal. No need to guess.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:59 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,872
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolncode3 View Post
PC 22210 clearly states that saps are illegal. No need to guess.
As in 'saps are illegal ergo sap gloves are illegal'?

Is that anything like 'billies are illegal ergo billy goats are illegal'?

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-13-2012, 2:14 PM
Kody the Enforcer's Avatar
Kody the Enforcer Kody the Enforcer is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 34
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
Okay I'm confused.
I know this thread is old, but as far as I can tell, SAP gloves are not illegal in California. Some seasoned LEOs here seem to think they are, while others don't. And some of the "in the know" people here seem to also think they are not illegal.
Disclaimer: I don't own them, nor do I think they're that great of defensive weapons (did own them when I was younger and lived in Arizona, they kind of suck for anything other than conversational pieces. Sold them to a buddy for $10 I think haha).

Can I get clarification?
sap gloves = sap, therefore illegal. You are overthinking California law. It only results in headaches.
__________________
Take pride in what you do, say, and believe. Give everything your best effort, and never break your word of honor. You will never question if you did the right thing, even if it doesn't work out the way you wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-13-2012, 2:25 PM
Ninety's Avatar
Ninety Ninety is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: OC , AZ
Posts: 3,947
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

under that code an ASP is illegal to own as well.. Never knew that.. what a bunch of garbage.. CA has some weird laws... the police can have them and that is fine but a private citizen its a felony?? amazing.
__________________
NRA Member
The Constitution does not bestow wisdom. It's up to the body politic to be wise. -Patriot
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
I'd much rather go to my grave never needing my gun, than go there wishing I had it.
- Phil Dalmolin

The Battle of Athens was illegal too.

Last edited by retired; 12-21-2012 at 2:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-13-2012, 4:48 PM
Kody the Enforcer's Avatar
Kody the Enforcer Kody the Enforcer is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 34
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
under that code an ASP is illegal to own as well.. Never knew that.. what a bunch of garebage.. CA has some weird laws... the police can have them and that is fine but a private citizen its a felony?? amazing.
Yep. Any baton, nightstick, ASP, PR-24, etc is considered a billy.

Trying to make sense out of CA weapon laws will only give you a headache.
__________________
Take pride in what you do, say, and believe. Give everything your best effort, and never break your word of honor. You will never question if you did the right thing, even if it doesn't work out the way you wanted.

Last edited by retired; 12-21-2012 at 2:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-13-2012, 4:50 PM
Kody the Enforcer's Avatar
Kody the Enforcer Kody the Enforcer is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 34
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
I'm going to put sap gloves in the same bin that bullet button AR15s were in before they became accepted practice.
Completely lega
l, but most officers (and people in general) are going to assume it isn't.
Best not to push it as there isn't going to be that much support for sap gloves like there was for black rifles.
That kind of logic will get you a new name: inmate
__________________
Take pride in what you do, say, and believe. Give everything your best effort, and never break your word of honor. You will never question if you did the right thing, even if it doesn't work out the way you wanted.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-18-2012, 5:35 PM
ArmedCMT's Avatar
ArmedCMT ArmedCMT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Moorpark
Posts: 1,937
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default Baton question.

So i cant own an expanding baton even if it stays in my safe? Or can i own it just cant poses it outside my domain kinda thing? If someone owns one of these can they sell/give it to someone who can legally own it or should it just discreetly go into the trash?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-20-2012, 3:14 PM
ArmedCMT's Avatar
ArmedCMT ArmedCMT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Moorpark
Posts: 1,937
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

anyone wanna weigh in on this?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-20-2012, 4:39 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,872
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmedCMT View Post
So i cant own an expanding baton even if it stays in my safe? Or can i own it just cant poses it outside my domain kinda thing? If someone owns one of these can they sell/give it to someone who can legally own it or should it just discreetly go into the trash?
Its pretty black and white...simple possession is a crime (regardless of where you possess it.)

Also notice below (although I didn't bold it) that giving, selling, lending are also crimes.

16590. As used in this part, "generally prohibited weapon" means
any of the following:

(a) An air gauge knife, as prohibited by Section 20310.
(b) Ammunition that contains or consists of a flechette dart, as
prohibited by Section 30210.
(c) A ballistic knife, as prohibited by Section 21110.
(d) A belt buckle knife, as prohibited by Section 20410.
(e) A bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, as
prohibited by Section 30210.
(f) A camouflaging firearm container, as prohibited by Section
24310.
(g) A cane gun, as prohibited by Section 24410.
(h) A cane sword, as prohibited by Section 20510.
(i) A concealed dirk or dagger, as prohibited by Section 21310.
(j) A concealed explosive substance, other than fixed ammunition,
as prohibited by Section 19100.
(k) A firearm that is not immediately recognizable as a firearm,
as prohibited by Section 24510.
(l) A large-capacity magazine, as prohibited by Section 32310.
(m) A leaded cane or an instrument or weapon of the kind commonly
known as a billy, blackjack, sandbag, sandclub, sap, or slungshot, as
prohibited by Section 22210.

(n) A lipstick case knife, as prohibited by Section 20610.
(o) Metal knuckles, as prohibited by Section 21810.
(p) A metal military practice handgrenade or a metal replica
handgrenade, as prohibited by Section 19200.
(q) A multiburst trigger activator, as prohibited by Section
32900.
(r) A nunchaku, as prohibited by Section 22010.
(s) A shobi-zue, as prohibited by Section 20710.
(t) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as
prohibited by Section 33215.
(u) A shuriken, as prohibited by Section 22410.
(v) An unconventional pistol, as prohibited by Section 31500.
(w) An undetectable firearm, as prohibited by Section 24610.
(x) A wallet gun, as prohibited by Section 24710.
(y) A writing pen knife, as prohibited by Section 20910.
(z) A zip gun, as prohibited by Section 33600.

22210. Except as provided in Section 22215 and Chapter 1
(commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person
in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports
into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who
gives, lends, or possesses any leaded cane, or any instrument or
weapon of the kind commonly known as a billy, blackjack, sandbag,
sandclub, sap, or slungshot, is punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to
subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

17735. The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any
instrument, ammunition, weapon, or device that is not a firearm and
is found and possessed by a person who meets all of the following:

(a) The person is not prohibited from possessing firearms or
ammunition under subdivision (a) of Section 30305 or Chapter 2
(commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section
29900) of Division 9 of Title 4 of this part, or Section 8100 or
8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(b) The person possessed the instrument, ammunition, weapon, or
device no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport it to a
law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to
law.
(c) If the person is transporting the item, the person is
transporting it to a law enforcement agency for disposition according
to law.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:22 AM
Anchors's Avatar
Anchors Anchors is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kody the Enforcer View Post
That kind of logic will get you a new name: inmate
That is uncalled for.
That kind of logic is the reason you can have an AR15 in California outside of one blessed by the chief/sheriff with an official letter stating that it is for duty use. I'm only thinking here, thinking is not a crime yet.

And no, a "sap" is an old school billie, which is a lead or steel weight attached to a spring, wrapped in leather.
Cops used to carry them way back in the day before ASPs and nightsticks became more popular.

So basically I am right. Sap gloves aren't illegal but multiple officers (including many here) think they are, so not owning them is the only way to stay out of jail.

Last edited by Anchors; 12-21-2012 at 4:48 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:05 AM
missiondude's Avatar
missiondude missiondude is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,511
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Just wear motorcycle gloves and carry a roll of nickels with you at all times. Never know when you will encounter a parking meter.
__________________
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The original common sense gun law...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-21-2012, 1:35 PM
5shot's Avatar
5shot 5shot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chino, Ca.
Posts: 1,229
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
And no, a "sap" is an old school billie, which is a lead or steel weight attached to a spring, wrapped in leather.
Cops used to carry them way back in the day before ASPs and nightsticks became more popular.
No, those would be classified as a "blackjack".

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
So basically I am right. Sap gloves aren't illegal but multiple officers (including many here) think they are, so not owning them is the only way to stay out of jail.
No, you are wrong. "Saps" come in different forms, but all contain granulated lead. There are flat beavertail shaped ones that contain granulated lead, palm saps that contain granulated lead, and sap gloves that contain granulated lead.
__________________
John Bishop
Member: NRA Life, CRPA, WEGC

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-21-2012, 4:46 PM
Anchors's Avatar
Anchors Anchors is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
No, those would be classified as a "blackjack".

No, you are wrong. "Saps" come in different forms, but all contain granulated lead. There are flat beavertail shaped ones that contain granulated lead, palm saps that contain granulated lead, and sap gloves that contain granulated lead.
I apologize then and that actually makes more sense.
I just took issue with the idea that he thinks it is wrong for me to try and question the meaning of the law or figure it out.
Then anything leather and weighted with granulated lead shot is a "sap"? That seems like the clearest definition I've found so far.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-21-2012, 4:51 PM
Anchors's Avatar
Anchors Anchors is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Then again:

Not that Wiki is always right:
Quote:
Sap
A sap is a flat-profiled, leather-covered lead rod, fitted with a spring handle.[4] It is also the name for a weapon of similar design (also called a slapper, slap jack or beavertail sap). A sap has a flat profile as opposed to a cylindrical profile of a blackjack, and spreads its impact out over a broader area, making it less likely to break bone. It was primarily used for head strikes, intended to stun an opponent or render him unconscious.
Dictionary: (obviously not legally binding)
Quote:
sap
/sap/
Noun
The fluid, chiefly water with dissolved sugars and mineral salts, that circulates in the vascular system of a plant.
A tunnel or trench to conceal an assailant's approach to a fortified place.
A foolish and gullible person.
A bludgeon or club.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-21-2012, 7:53 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,850
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
That is uncalled for.
That kind of logic is the reason you can have an AR15 in California outside of one blessed by the chief/sheriff with an official letter stating that it is for duty use. I'm only thinking here, thinking is not a crime yet.

And no, a "sap" is an old school billie, which is a lead or steel weight attached to a spring, wrapped in leather.
Cops used to carry them way back in the day before ASPs and nightsticks became more popular.

So basically I am right. Sap gloves aren't illegal but multiple officers (including many here) think they are, so not owning them is the only way to stay out of jail.

Since you are wrong, your response is uncalled for. Sap gloves ARE illegal and are considered the same as a sap. Saps come in many different forms. During my 32 year career, I had several different saps. My department did not allow sap gloves, but others did.

I don't know where you base your expert opinion on, but your logic is flawed.
Possession of sap gloves is a felony. It is not "questionable" as some have suggested.

Get caught with sap gloves and you will most likely become an inmate somewhere.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011




If You Heard The Shot, You Weren't The Target

Last edited by Ron-Solo; 12-21-2012 at 7:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-24-2012, 7:37 PM
Anchors's Avatar
Anchors Anchors is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 5,922
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
Since you are wrong, your response is uncalled for. Sap gloves ARE illegal and are considered the same as a sap. Saps come in many different forms. During my 32 year career, I had several different saps. My department did not allow sap gloves, but others did.

I don't know where you base your expert opinion on, but your logic is flawed.
Possession of sap gloves is a felony. It is not "questionable" as some have suggested.

Get caught with sap gloves and you will most likely become an inmate somewhere.
Hey, I respect your opinion. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Do you know of any case law that defines "sap" or of anyone being convicted for simple possession of SAP gloves? Or did you personally witness convictions for that in your career?

Not trying to argue, genuinely curious.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-24-2012, 7:49 PM
5shot's Avatar
5shot 5shot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Chino, Ca.
Posts: 1,229
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
Hey, I respect your opinion. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Do you know of any case law that defines "sap" or of anyone being convicted for simple possession of SAP gloves? Or did you personally witness convictions for that in your career?

Not trying to argue, genuinely curious.

The section describes a category of weapons, not a specific description of a weapon.
Example, "billy". "Billy" can mean a billy club, baton, side handle baton, riot baton, night stick, collapsible baton, or even a stick or baseball bat in the right circumstances.
__________________
John Bishop
Member: NRA Life, CRPA, WEGC

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-24-2012, 8:18 PM
Ron-Solo's Avatar
Ron-Solo Ron-Solo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,850
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAnchors View Post
Hey, I respect your opinion. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Do you know of any case law that defines "sap" or of anyone being convicted for simple possession of SAP gloves? Or did you personally witness convictions for that in your career?

Not trying to argue, genuinely curious.
I've sent people to prison for possession as a deputy, approved arrests as a sergeant and filed cases with th D.A., approved arrests as a watch commander, as a court supervisor, I've seen many cases where people were tried and convicted.

We used to use the California Legal Sourcebook, but since I'm retired I don't have access to them anymore. Blacks Law Dictionary also has a lot of legal definitions too.
__________________
LASD Retired
1978-2011




If You Heard The Shot, You Weren't The Target
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:41 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.