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  #1  
Old 07-05-2013, 10:40 PM
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Default CALGUNS Politically Progressive Thread

I appreciate all of the information that this site has provided me. However, it is obvious that a good portion of posters here would be considered Conservative in their political beliefs. While I appreciate those views, the fact remains that I am politically a Progressive, a typically Californian Leftist if you will, although I differ with the average Democrat on 2A issues. I am an Air Force Veteran, a believer in the first amendment as it pertains to the separation of church and state, an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment, a gun owner, a father, and a patriot. It would be nice to communicate with likewise progressives that share my support of the 2nd Amendment. I know from talking to people that there are a lot more of us than the right wing would suggest. So, my suggestion would be for a forum dedicated to us on the Left, so that we can join the discussion on how best to preserve our 2A rights.

Last edited by Ericb760; 07-05-2013 at 10:53 PM..
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:05 PM
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Huh? I think you're on the wrong forum?

By the way, 1st Amendment has nothing to do with the seperation of church and state. In fact, I don't recall any of those words last time I read it.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:11 PM
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Huh? I think you're on the wrong forum?

By the way, 1st Amendment has nothing to do with the seperation of church and state. In fact, I don't recall any of those words last time I read it.

Best of luck to you.
I meant simply that the 1A allows for every citizen to freely proclaim their belief, be that religious or political. It would seem by your sarcasm that this is unacceptable. Best of luck to you also.
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Old 07-06-2013, 1:38 PM
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Huh? I think you're on the wrong forum?
Divided we fail. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, so if the man is a proud gun owner and supporter of the 2A, perhaps welcoming him on this gun forum to talk about guns/gun rights and agreeing to disagree on other issues would be more appropriate.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:27 PM
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Nope. I'm an athiest who doesn't believe in the feeedom of speech or religion. In fact, I don't believe in the 2nd Amendment either. Guns and loud noises scare me.

I'm only here to mock the right wing tin foil hat wearing anti-government racist baby killing gun owners.

Is that the response you're looking for? I sure hope so. Maybe now you can sleep tonight.
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Old 07-06-2013, 1:08 PM
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Nope. I'm an athiest who doesn't believe in the feeedom of speech or religion. In fact, I don't believe in the 2nd Amendment either. Guns and loud noises scare me.

I'm only here to mock the right wing tin foil hat wearing anti-government racist baby killing gun owners.

Is that the response you're looking for? I sure hope so. Maybe now you can sleep tonight.
No, that was not the response I was looking for. I was looking for an adult conversation.
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Old 07-06-2013, 2:14 PM
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No, that was not the response I was looking for. I was looking for an adult conversation.
Unfortunately, adult conversation is often lacking on this site. Or at least on OT.

California is an overwhelmingly a liberal/ progressive State, as we can see by the vast majority of elected officials tend to lean to the left. As a gun enthusiast myself, it is sad to see so many of these officials introducing restrictive laws that do nothing to fix the problems that they claim to address.

As a political moderate with both liberal and conservative tendencies, I can often agree with much of the positive legislation that has improved the rights of citizen minority groups in California, as well as some of the environmental improvement standards. I see the need for government services that allow for broader access for all citizens, not just those who can afford to pay a premium for them. I understand that public unions are a necessity after having a parent who was a government employee and myself working as a government employee for a few years before starting my own business. Having fought with the district over reduced pay for myself/employees (already paid little in comparison to what we did) while the chancellor and school presidents received massive raises.

My conservative and business side agrees with the reduction of onerous restrictions and regulations that is hampering businesses. With every step I take as a business owner, I have to shell out money to the city/state, and receive little back other than headaches. I'm against illegal labor, having to deal with it on a regular basis, due to wage suppression and illegal competition. I understand the need for welfare and sec.8 overhaul to allow only those who truly need it, to have access to it.

This being a firearm forum, I think all pro-firearm individuals should be made to feel welcome, despite our political differences. In California, the Democrats are the ones who are in control of the state's government. If more pro-firearm Democrats are made to feel welcomed and embraced by the firearm community, maybe we could shift the current anti-gun stance of the party to a far more favorable pro-gun stance, or at least get rid of the anti-gun politicians and not have to settle for the theocrats or the locusts.
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:32 PM
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Well, the 1st protects you from government infringement of free speech. It also protects everyone else who would choose to criticize you for you voicing your opinion.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:52 AM
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There already is a forum for that:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/f...splay.php?f=71

It's for EVERYONE; it doesn't discriminate between political beliefs, other than separating between the PEOPLE and the GOVERNMENT.

.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:54 AM
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Call it what you want, it's still liberalism and it's sinking this nation fast.
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  #11  
Old 07-06-2013, 1:16 AM
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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Words a progressive never heard as a child.
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Old 07-07-2013, 7:18 AM
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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Words a progressive never heard as a child.
hahahaha touche. if you are a liberal you hate guns. you are guilty by association. sorry, but that is the reality of the situation. don't shoot the messenger....
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Old 07-06-2013, 1:57 PM
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I am politically a Progressive, a typically Californian Leftist if you will, although I differ with the average Democrat on 2A issues. I am an Air Force Veteran, a believer in the first amendment as it pertains to the separation of church and state, an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment, a gun owner, a father, and a patriot.
That's neither a Californian Leftist nor a "progressive". That's a solid libertarian/conservative viewpoint.

If you think the Gov should get involved with everything; or that service & parenthood (sperm donor hood?) mean nothing, THEN you are a Leftist.
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Old 07-06-2013, 3:02 PM
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I'm just a pro constitution, non idealogic minded human being. Untied by my raising or brainwashed beliefs. All the small distractions detach each other from the real danger. Government. Right or left screws us the same.
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Old 07-06-2013, 4:27 PM
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Welcome, Ericb760 - there are a number of forumites around that lean politically left/progressive on many issues other than firearms policy/gun control - you just have to develop a bit of a thick skin if you're going to wade into certain spots, like OT....
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Old 07-06-2013, 4:31 PM
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why you got to make all this so complicated. welcome to the forum. dont let these turds scare you off!@
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Old 07-06-2013, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericb760 View Post
I appreciate all of the information that this site has provided me. However, it is obvious that a good portion of posters here would be considered Conservative in their political beliefs. While I appreciate those views, the fact remains that I am politically a Progressive, a typically Californian Leftist if you will, although I differ with the average Democrat on 2A issues. I am an Air Force Veteran, a believer in the first amendment as it pertains to the separation of church and state, an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment, a gun owner, a father, and a patriot. It would be nice to communicate with likewise progressives that share my support of the 2nd Amendment. I know from talking to people that there are a lot more of us than the right wing would suggest. So, my suggestion would be for a forum dedicated to us on the Left, so that we can join the discussion on how best to preserve our 2A rights.
The only way to accomplish the bold is to stop voting for progressive Democrats!!
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Old 07-06-2013, 7:32 PM
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The only way to accomplish the bold is to stop voting for progressive Democrats!!
Maybe one day he'll figure out why trying to vote in 2a progressive democrats in CA is a waste of time.
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Old 07-06-2013, 9:27 PM
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Maybe one day he'll figure out why trying to vote in 2a progressive democrats in CA is a waste of time.
Completely agree! No offense OP, but 2A restrictions and stringent gun control are across the board Democrat agenda items. Bread and butter. Might as well get them to try and vote against a pro choice bill, won't happen. There is no changing the policy of an entire party. Can you imagine how short the career would be for a Dem official that voted against the party on any CA state firearms bills? It may have happened but I am unaware of it.
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Old 07-06-2013, 9:43 PM
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Completely agree! No offense OP, but 2A restrictions and stringent gun control are across the board Democrat agenda items. Bread and butter. Might as well get them to try and vote against a pro choice bill, won't happen. There is no changing the policy of an entire party. Can you imagine how short the career would be for a Dem official that voted against the party on any CA state firearms bills? It may have happened but I am unaware of it.
I agree that the vast majority of ELECTED Democrats are anti-gun. I am less convinced that the overwhelming majority of Democratic VOTERS are. And it is them that we must reach out to. I have many liberal friends that I have taken shooting. Once they understand that it's more about being a hobby then it is about killing things, more than one has gone on to purchase a gun. Their political views didn't really change, they just started seeing gun ownership in a different light, instead of it being the big, bad, bogeyman. I'd like to see a concerted effort to arrange some sort of "Take A Liberal To The Range Day". Reach out to your friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Mention that you are in to target shooting and ask if they'd like to join you sometime. You just might be surprised at their response.
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:47 PM
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Welcome. There are several dyed-in-the-wool leftist liberals here on the forum. Most are quiet about their political persuasions. Some are open about them. As you have probably already seen, any discussion of politics on this site tends to be very one-sided, with little but insults for democrats or liberals. If you want to be a leftie and participate here, you have to have a thick skin.

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I agree that the vast majority of ELECTED Democrats are anti-gun. I am less convinced that the overwhelming majority of Democratic VOTERS are.
This is a question of some debate. The reason for the debate is that "anti-gun" and "pro-gun" are not absolute statements, but questions of degree. For example, in the pro-gun camp we have people who claim that everyone (including convicted felons) should have access to all guns, up to and including nuclear arms. In the middle we have people who are in favor of what they consider sensible gun control laws, which may for example include licensing, psychological fitness tests, registration, assault weapons bans, and bans of high-capacity magazines. On the other extreme end we have people who want to ban all guns. Most democratic voters fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. Whether you want to call that pro-gun or anti-gun is in the eye of the beholder.

On this forum, the overwhelming majority of the posters, and therefore the tenor of the discussion are on the extreme pro-gun end (this is highly correlated but not identical with extremely conservative political positions). The style of discussion can be very abrasive. A considerable amount of all posts on here are flinging invectives in the general directions of people like President Obama (occasionally referred to as Barry Sotero, supposedly a Kenyan-born Indonesian citizen and impostor in the office of president, or referred to by insults like Obummer and 0bama), or Attorneys General Holder and Harris, or Governor Brown (whom some people here hold in high esteem, while most refer to him as Moonbeam or "if its brown, flush it down"), or the California legislature, or liberals in general (often referred to as "libtards", which gave rise to a discussion forum called "guntards", a self-defined group of liberals with guns). Again, as I said above: you have to have a thick skin if you are willing to out yourself as a liberal here.

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I'd like to see a concerted effort to arrange some sort of "Take A Liberal To The Range Day". Reach out to your friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc.
Let me exaggerate a little bit: Some members here seem to be of the opinion that the only use for liberals in shooting is as targets. Now seriously, I have not seen much call for murder of liberals, but as you have seen from a few posts in just this thread, many posters want to stay at least at arms lengths from liberals.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:00 AM
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I agree that the vast majority of ELECTED Democrats are anti-gun. I am less convinced that the overwhelming majority of Democratic VOTERS are. And it is them that we must reach out to. I have many liberal friends that I have taken shooting. Once they understand that it's more about being a hobby then it is about killing things, more than one has gone on to purchase a gun. Their political views didn't really change, they just started seeing gun ownership in a different light, instead of it being the big, bad, bogeyman. I'd like to see a concerted effort to arrange some sort of "Take A Liberal To The Range Day". Reach out to your friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Mention that you are in to target shooting and ask if they'd like to join you sometime. You just might be surprised at their response.
Ok, so you believe the majority of democrat voters aren't anti gun. Fair enough.

Guess what? They need to stop voting for democrats in CA. There are pro 2a democrat politicians, in other states. They aren't in CA. Voting for democrats(and sometimes republicans) in CA = anti gun. "some more laws" and "just a little more restriction" is absolutely unacceptable. You and your friends can enjoy owning guns, shooting guns, great, we need more gun owners. However casting votes to anti 2a politicians... you might as well be shooting yourself in the foot. In an ideal world you might be able to be pro 2a and vote democrat, but not in this state.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericb760 View Post
I agree that the vast majority of ELECTED Democrats are anti-gun. I am less convinced that the overwhelming majority of Democratic VOTERS are. And it is them that we must reach out to. I have many liberal friends that I have taken shooting. Once they understand that it's more about being a hobby then it is about killing things, more than one has gone on to purchase a gun. Their political views didn't really change, they just started seeing gun ownership in a different light, instead of it being the big, bad, bogeyman. I'd like to see a concerted effort to arrange some sort of "Take A Liberal To The Range Day". Reach out to your friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. Mention that you are in to target shooting and ask if they'd like to join you sometime. You just might be surprised at their response.
The bolded is exactly where your comrades at DU fail. Gun ownership and 2A are not more about being a hobby, that just happens to be a secondary reason for gun ownership and the 2A. The Second Amendment is NOT a silly little hobby that we are clinging on to, it is a civil right and it should be treated as such. That is why you will often hear the mantra "Not one inch". You might be fooling yourself, but you will not convince many other on CG that you care much about the 2A if you continue to vote for Leftists, Progressives, or Democrats in general, at least here in California.
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Old 07-07-2013, 7:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ericb760 View Post
I appreciate all of the information that this site has provided me. However, it is obvious that a good portion of posters here would be considered Conservative in their political beliefs. While I appreciate those views, the fact remains that I am politically a Progressive, a typically Californian Leftist if you will, although I differ with the average Democrat on 2A issues. I am an Air Force Veteran, a believer in the first amendment as it pertains to the separation of church and state, an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment, a gun owner, a father, and a patriot. It would be nice to communicate with likewise progressives that share my support of the 2nd Amendment. I know from talking to people that there are a lot more of us than the right wing would suggest. So, my suggestion would be for a forum dedicated to us on the Left, so that we can join the discussion on how best to preserve our 2A rights.
so you'd like to segregate the different viewpoints so you can only hear your viewpoints? of course you would.
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Old 07-07-2013, 8:02 AM
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^^^+ forever, thanks glock7
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:33 PM
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I wonder if any of you are familiar with Emperor Nero's musical abilities...
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Old 07-07-2013, 7:05 PM
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I wonder if any of you are familiar with Emperor Nero's musical abilities...
Of course.

Progressive liberals fiddle while California burns...

We welcome our friendly undocumented workers and cheerfully give them financial breaks unavailable to U.S. citizens.

We encourage the FSA, knowing full well that EBT and welfare were originally intended as a bootstrap up...not as an ongoing way of support for those who, whatever the excuse, don't really feel like getting up and working 5 days a week; like the people who support their lifestyle do.

California is broke, financially, politically, and philosophically.

Those who can, move to a state where citizens are actually responsible to fix their own issues, instead of sucking on the teat of a nanny state.

Thinking that you'll convert liberals to favor the 2nd Amendment is an admirable but lofty goal. I wish you luck.

I'd submit that the great majority of liberal Democrats fully realize the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, but don't mind living under a government that is becoming increasingly controlling and approaching tyrannical, as long as they can escape responsibility for their own lot in life with massive government assistance.

-hanko
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Old 07-07-2013, 8:08 PM
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I'd submit that the great majority of liberal Democrats fully realize the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, but don't mind living under a government that is becoming increasingly controlling and approaching tyrannical, as long as they can escape responsibility for their own lot in life with massive government assistance.

-hanko
And I would counter that the "great majority" of liberal Democrats, do, indeed, have a higher tolerance for government intrusion in their lives, however, there will come a time when that level exceeds the majority of Democrats tolerance as well. I already hear it among my friends and colleagues. They might be a little late to the party, but at least they are showing up. Rather than rejecting that shift, I would suggest that you embrace it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 8:42 PM
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And I would counter that the "great majority" of liberal Democrats, do, indeed, have a higher tolerance for government intrusion in their lives, however, there will come a time when that level exceeds the majority of Democrats tolerance as well. I already hear it among my friends and colleagues. They might be a little late to the party, but at least they are showing up. Rather than rejecting that shift, I would suggest that you embrace it.
Not only will I embrace it, I just might make love to it.

Though I'm patiently waiting to see just the smallest evidence of it...maybe the 2014 elections, I pray.

eta...The hardest concept you have to impart is that the Constitution guarantees equal opportunity, not equal results. Good results happen when one works his butt off...working your butt off may be the 2nd most difficult concept.

Good op, too.

-hanko
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Why can't you guys participate in a simple discussion about some guy's mom making a porno without violating the COC? This is why we can't have nice things.



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Old 07-07-2013, 3:00 PM
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What's stopping you from creating CAProgressiveGunOwners.org or something similar?

There aren't any political belief specific forums on cgn now, what makes progressives so special that they get their own forum?
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Old 07-07-2013, 6:19 PM
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What's stopping you from creating CAProgressiveGunOwners.org or something similar?

There aren't any political belief specific forums on cgn now, what makes progressives so special that they get their own forum?
Believe me, I've considered it, and I am a member of The Liberal Gun Club. My intent was to enter the enemy's camp, so to speak, and attempt to engage the more conservative members on how better they could engage in dialogue with liberals and to suggest how to convert liberals on the fence. This fallacy that liberals don't own guns is, quite frankly, a figment of the conservative mind that cannot comprehend it. In the real world, we own guns just like you do. perhaps not in the same numbers, but we do exist. And we are just as concerned as you are over the erosion of our liberties when it comes to gun ownership in California. One simpleton suggestion echoed here is to stop voting Democratic. While that may seem the easy answer, in real life it's just not that simple. Would you start voting Democrat just because you believe in a woman's right to choose? I started this thread to attempt to engage conservatives on how best to address issues that effect us both. I won't continue to waste my time if your only response is to fling your feces at me.

Last edited by Ericb760; 07-07-2013 at 6:28 PM..
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Old 07-09-2013, 5:06 PM
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Believe me, I've considered it, and I am a member of The Liberal Gun Club. My intent was to enter the enemy's camp, so to speak, and attempt to engage the more conservative members on how better they could engage in dialogue with liberals and to suggest how to convert liberals on the fence. This fallacy that liberals don't own guns is, quite frankly, a figment of the conservative mind that cannot comprehend it. In the real world, we own guns just like you do. perhaps not in the same numbers, but we do exist. And we are just as concerned as you are over the erosion of our liberties when it comes to gun ownership in California. One simpleton suggestion echoed here is to stop voting Democratic. While that may seem the easy answer, in real life it's just not that simple. Would you start voting Democrat just because you believe in a woman's right to choose? I started this thread to attempt to engage conservatives on how best to address issues that effect us both. I won't continue to waste my time if your only response is to fling your feces at me.
You don't need a special progressive sub-forum here. You can engage without one. You're going to need a thick skin and be willing to deal with some people who want nothing more than to fling poo at you. Start a thread on how to engage at least some element of the left on 2A rights. How do I convince a left of center person on the fence about guns to care about 2A rights, especially with the onslaught after Newton and given that the candidates they naturally support are rabidly anti? In other words how do I get that left of center person to send a letter to DiFi or Nancy Skinner that says I love you and support you but you're wrong on guns?

It doesn't matter how much somebody loves guns if they continually nominate, donate, and for vote for candidates who want to ban guns. Do I vote taxes, or guns, or social issues, or the environment? Like many here I'm economically conservative and socially liberal. We don't have a viable option that matches our beliefs so we hold out noses and prioritize our issues on election day. Not that it matters as my representative will be whatever progressive the local machine supports. I voted for Gary Johnson knowing it didn't matter.

I welcome your effort. We'll never win if we stay in an echo chamber. Until we can move the needle on election day we're stuck with fighting in court.
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Old 07-07-2013, 3:03 PM
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I appreciate all of the information that this site has provided me. However, it is obvious that a good portion of posters here would be considered Conservative in their political beliefs. While I appreciate those views, the fact remains that I am politically a Progressive, a typically Californian Leftist if you will, although I differ with the average Democrat on 2A issues. I am an Air Force Veteran, a believer in the first amendment as it pertains to the separation of church and state, an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment, a gun owner, a father, and a patriot. It would be nice to communicate with likewise progressives that share my support of the 2nd Amendment. I know from talking to people that there are a lot more of us than the right wing would suggest. So, my suggestion would be for a forum dedicated to us on the Left, so that we can join the discussion on how best to preserve our 2A rights.
What about the rest of your political platform?

And what kinds of restrictions do you feel are appropriate to the 2A?
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Old 07-07-2013, 6:26 PM
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What about the rest of your political platform?

And what kinds of restrictions do you feel are appropriate to the 2A?
The rest of my political platform is irrelevant to this discussion. As to 2A restrictions, I believe that your 2A rights end where my God given rights begin. I.E., if in exercising your 2A rights, you infringe on my right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, you have crossed the line.
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Old 07-07-2013, 7:33 PM
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And you completely miss the point that I am one of those gun owners also. And I am mad as hell that Democrats in this state have done so well at demonizing me and my hobby. While it might help you sleep at night, making knee-jerk statements on how illogical democratic thought is, really serves no purpose in the debate. We all recognize that we see issues differently. Insulting me says more about your character than mine. And the chance of this state turning red anytime soon is about the same as you getting chosen to head Planned Parenthood. Sometimes it seems that conservatives can only do one thing, and one thing only. And that is to ***** about Democrats and bang their spoons on their high-chairs like some insolent baby. Protip, pal: You will continue to lose this argument in this state if you refuse to even engage with your fellow citizens on the important topics of the day. Gun Control/2A being one of the most important.
I did not miss the point. I understood it very clearly. I'm glad that you are mad as hell the D's in CA have demonized you and your hobby, buy I am livid that they have stomped on the Constitution and my civil rights. There's a huge difference from your train of thought of being inconvenienced and someone like myself and many others on here who are active in trying to restore civil rights. And, discussing how illogical democratic thought is, is the debate. That is the only reason these things are happening. Someone's feelings get hurt, they react emotionally, not logically, and the end result is always legislation that lacks logic. And speaking of being on high-chairs, it the the Democrats that always claim to have the moral high ground on the gun issue, not the Republicans.

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I would absolutely agree. But you cannot tell me that every shot you put downrange you do for 2A reasons. I propose minimizing that aspect of gun ownership, at least initially. Take it from me, if you take a lib to the range and start spouting "Molon Labe!" at them, you will have already lost the game. Better to play up the sportsman aspects than try to thump them over the head with a concept that is distant and foreign to them. Has that been working very well for you up to now? And can we please set aside my voting record for now? While I did vote for Obama, I DID NOT vote for any sitting California politician.
Most, if not all, of my shots put downrange have been recreational. Read my post again, it is still a secondary reason for gun ownership. Once again, the sportsman card is failed logic. Playing up the sportsman aspect is one the main reasons why Democrats feel they can control the issue. To them it is about sportsmen, and guess what? They don't feel that a sportsman needs an AR15 which means that it is ok to ban such weapons.

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Believe me, I've considered it, and I am a member of The Liberal Gun Club. My intent was to enter the enemy's camp, so to speak, and attempt to engage the more conservative members on how better they could engage in dialogue with liberals and to suggest how to convert liberals on the fence. This fallacy that liberals don't own guns is, quite frankly, a figment of the conservative mind that cannot comprehend it. In the real world, we own guns just like you do. perhaps not in the same numbers, but we do exist. And we are just as concerned as you are over the erosion of our liberties when it comes to gun ownership in California. One simpleton suggestion echoed here is to stop voting Democratic. While that may seem the easy answer, in real life it's just not that simple. Would you start voting Democrat just because you believe in a woman's right to choose? I started this thread to attempt to engage conservatives on how best to address issues that effect us both. I won't continue to waste my time if your only response is to fling your feces at me.
First, there is no way you can be just as concerned over the erosion of your liberties if you are voting in those that erode your liberties. Second, a simpleton would believe that it is possible to vote for a candidate that would side with and be concerned with and act on every one of your political viewpoints and have society's problems solved. A realist should choose maybe a handful of topics and vote based on that even if you know the candidate is not for other issues that might not be as high up on your priorities list for you. So, yes, if my biggest issue was a woman's right to choose, then I would vote Democrat. It just so happens that my biggest issue is 2A and civil rights.

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The rest of my political platform is irrelevant to this discussion. As to 2A restrictions, I believe that your 2A rights end where my God given rights begin. I.E., if in exercising your 2A rights, you infringe on my right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, you have crossed the line.
Anything related to infringing on you right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness with a gun is already illegal, everything else is knee-jerk legislation based on emotion rather than logic.
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Old 07-07-2013, 8:11 PM
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Anything related to infringing on you right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness with a gun is already illegal, everything else is knee-jerk legislation based on emotion rather than logic.
I sincerely hope that you comprehend just how close you and I are on that issue. It's a start, is it not?
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:55 PM
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The rest of my political platform is irrelevant to this discussion. As to 2A restrictions, I believe that your 2A rights end where my God given rights begin. I.E., if in exercising your 2A rights, you infringe on my right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, you have crossed the line.
Okay fair enough on the irrelevant stuff then.

So onto the 2A. Cool, sounds like you would have no problem if I owned fully automatic weapons, plenty of ammo (cause they eat it like candy) and sound suppressors, SBRs, SBSs, and of course I'm sure you won't mind if I carry a pistol (or two, or three) concealed, maybe even a nice shotgun pistol.

I of course support all those things for everyone else as well.

Repeal the NFA and every other gun law enacted since at the Federal, State, and Local levels. I believe 2A means just what it says, in the same way 1A does.
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Old 07-07-2013, 3:09 PM
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:02 PM
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I always find it quite curious when a liberal progressive tells conservatives "you need to reach out to democrats, take them to the range and who knows, they might be persuaded to 2A. If you don't do that, its your fault if you lose your 2A rights!"

The logic just eludes me....
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Old 07-08-2013, 8:03 AM
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I always find it quite curious when a liberal progressive tells conservatives "you need to reach out to democrats, take them to the range and who knows, they might be persuaded to 2A. If you don't do that, its your fault if you lose your 2A rights!"

The logic just eludes me....
In the microcosm that is California politics, your statement is essentially true. It's too bad that this simple fact remains beyond your grasp.
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