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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 03-05-2013, 5:32 PM
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Default CBS: Police can confiscate high cap mags/clips as public nuisance

Sorry if this has been posted already. I did a search and nothing came up.

A proposed municipal ordinance is in the works;
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...blic-nuisance/
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Old 03-05-2013, 5:41 PM
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This has lawsuit written all over it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 5:47 PM
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Mag Ban L.A. - City meeting 2/22
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=709700

audio
http://www.lacity.org/government/Ele...aCategory=1814
needs windows

but this would be a follow up or just the time it takes the media to report on things..
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Old 03-05-2013, 5:52 PM
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clear 4th amendment violation
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Old 03-05-2013, 5:52 PM
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Calguns Foundation told the City we'd be happy to sue them over this, if passed. Also, magazines which are lawfully possessed are not a public nuisance.
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Old 03-05-2013, 6:00 PM
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Unrealistic. Unlawful. Unintelligent.

But I do have some questions....

If, for some miracle, this ordnance does take effect, how does LEOs .. "the rank & file" guys feel about putting their lives even more in danger with confiscation?

How many citizens would react violently to "gestapo"-like tactics this type of ordnance MIGHT bring?

This one is easy... Are Anti-gunners and liberals running out of idiotic ideas?
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Bsandoc40 View Post
Unrealistic. Unlawful. Unintelligent.

But I do have some questions....

If, for some miracle, this ordnance does take effect, how does LEOs .. "the rank & file" guys feel about putting their lives even more in danger with confiscation?

How many citizens would react violently to "gestapo"-like tactics this type of ordnance MIGHT bring?

I just cant see an idea like this ending well....
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:03 PM
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I just cant see an idea like this ending well....
That's the point, it would end badly. That's why we don't ever want it to happen. (at least that's how I interpreted this post)
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dreaded Claymore View Post
That's the point, it would end badly. That's why we don't ever want it to happen. (at least that's how I interpreted this post)
well that was my 3rd rewrite, all other statements i wanted to post might have landed me behind bars.
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You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Calguns Foundation told the City we'd be happy to sue them over this, if passed. Also, magazines which are lawfully possessed are not a public nuisance.
Are you guys suing the state over the 10+ round magazine summary destruction as a nuisance law? Seems like this would be the better route to go instead of suing individual cities.

http://law.justia.com/codes/californ...0-32390/32390/

Quote:
2011 California Code
Penal Code
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
ARTICLE 1. Rules Governing Large-Capacity Magazines
Section 32390

Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any large-capacity magazine is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010.
(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2013, 7:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Calguns Foundation told the City we'd be happy to sue them over this, if passed. Also, magazines which are lawfully possessed are not a public nuisance.
Thank you, your work is greatly appreciated!
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  #12  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:57 PM
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if mags are a public nuisance then wtf are the police using them
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:28 PM
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Lordy cakes! The government is truly out of control. With all their problems, they want to confiscate magazines, and Carmen Trutanich, a politician we were told to support, spearheads the movement? I thought when you became a lawyer you took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States?
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Old 03-11-2013, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Shotgun Man View Post
Lordy cakes! The government is truly out of control. With all their problems, they want to confiscate magazines, and Carmen Trutanich, a politician we were told to support, spearheads the movement? I thought when you became a lawyer you took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States?
GO back to your instructor and have them show you case law that supports this ridiculous suggestion.
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Old 03-26-2013, 2:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Shotgun Man View Post
Lordy cakes! The government is truly out of control. With all their problems, they want to confiscate magazines, and Carmen Trutanich, a politician we were told to support, spearheads the movement? I thought when you became a lawyer you took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States?

Listen to this. Advance it to 10:15. Its an interview of Dr. Paul Craig Roberts former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:32 PM
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I was advised at CCW class to NOT carry mags over ten rounds, even if you have legal ones that are larger. Why? Because of this.

YES it is illegal. But....
YES you will get arrested;
YES you can lose your CCW;
YES you may get cleared in court, but
YES it will cost you time, money, and heartache to do it.
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by winnre View Post
I was advised at CCW class to NOT carry mags over ten rounds, even if you have legal ones that are larger. Why? Because of this.

YES it is illegal. But....
YES you will get arrested;
YES you can lose your CCW;
YES you may get cleared in court, but
YES it will cost you time, money, and heartache to do it.
What complete and utter garbage information. Tell whoever told you that to call Jason Davis and that CGF will pick up the tab for their education just so they stop spreading nonsense at their classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDay View Post
Are you guys suing the state over the 10+ round magazine summary destruction as a nuisance law? Seems like this would be the better route to go instead of suing individual cities.

http://law.justia.com/codes/californ...0-32390/32390/
You're misreading the PC like City of Los Angeles is:

Quote:
32390. Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section
32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any large-capacity magazine is a
nuisance and is subject to Section 18010.
However:

Quote:
16005. Nothing in the Deadly Weapons Recodification Act of 2010 is
intended to substantively change the law relating to deadly weapons.
The act is intended to be entirely nonsubstantive in effect.
Every
provision of this part, of Title 2 (commencing with Section 12001) of
Part 4, and every other provision of this act, including, without
limitation, every cross-reference in every provision of the act,
shall be interpreted consistent with the nonsubstantive intent of the
act.
I won't discuss strategy here beyond reiterating what we told Los Angeles at its public hearing:
The people have a fundamental right to keep and bear firearms for self-defense, including those in common use which use magazines having a capacity of greater than 10 rounds.

Any outright ban on the possession of magazines is a violation of the Second Amendment.

If Los Angeles passes any outright ban on the possession of magazines within its jurisdiction, The Calguns Foundation and Cal-FFL will, along with taxpaying residents of LA, sue the City for civil rights violations in federal court and take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.

We will absolutely not accept LA scapegoating tens of thousands of law abiding gun owners and retailers in Los Angeles, and countless travelers and visitors, for the evil and insane acts of a few criminals.
-Brandon
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  #18  
Old 03-06-2013, 8:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
I was advised at CCW class to NOT carry mags over ten rounds, even if you have legal ones that are larger. Why? Because of this.

YES it is legal. But....
YES you will get arrested;
YES you can lose your CCW;
YES you may get cleared in court, but
YES it will cost you time, money, and heartache to do it.

Fixed that for you.
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Old 03-06-2013, 9:00 AM
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Fixed that for you.
Yes thank you, sorry about that! I wonder if stupid state laws get passed this same way.
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Old 03-06-2013, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
I was advised at CCW class to NOT carry mags over ten rounds, even if you have legal ones that are larger. Why? Because of this.

YES it is illegal. But....
YES you will get arrested;
YES you can lose your CCW;
YES you may get cleared in court, but
YES it will cost you time, money, and heartache to do it.
This has been discussed before. A nuisance is a civil action. You can't get arrested for it.
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Old 03-16-2013, 8:08 AM
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This has been discussed before. A nuisance is a civil action. You can't get arrested for it.
If one of us stole a citizen's legally owned private property and had it destroyed just because we didn't like it, we would be held liable and probably be criminally charged. This should be no different if a government agent did the same.
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I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?
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Old 03-16-2013, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
I was advised at CCW class to NOT carry mags over ten rounds, even if you have legal ones that are larger. Why? Because of this.

YES it is illegal. But....
YES you will get arrested;
YES you can lose your CCW;
YES you may get cleared in court, but
YES it will cost you time, money, and heartache to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
This has been discussed before. A nuisance is a civil action. You can't get arrested for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyca View Post
If one of us stole a citizen's legally owned private property and had it destroyed just because we didn't like it, we would be held liable and probably be criminally charged. This should be no different if a government agent did the same.
What a non-sequitur. I was responding to the idea that the person who possessed the standard mags could not be arrested for simple possession. The state law allows confiscation as a civil action brought by the state or local government.
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2013, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
I was advised at CCW class...
Why does this kind of sentence always end in FUD?
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GettoPhilosopher View Post
Why does this kind of sentence always end in FUD?
No ****.

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Old 03-19-2013, 10:24 AM
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Why does this kind of sentence always end in FUD?
No, the entire issue ends in FUD, but the cops can still haul you in. It is the COPS who teach the class and the COPS who tell you what they will haul you in for. The fact that you are right and they are wrong does NOT mean your day will not be ruined just the same.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:34 PM
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COPS are not lawyers. COPS regularly violate peoples' rights. COPS may haul you in, but THEY will go for a ride (as long as you really didn't break the law).

If you want to avoid risk, carry unicorn horns and glitter. Otherwise, know the law better than the cops - and when to STFU. Oh, and this.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
No, the entire issue ends in FUD, but the cops can still haul you in. It is the COPS who teach the class and the COPS who tell you what they will haul you in for. The fact that you are right and they are wrong does NOT mean your day will not be ruined just the same.
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2013, 9:24 PM
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Originally Posted by winnre View Post
No, the entire issue ends in FUD, but the cops can still haul you in. It is the COPS who teach the class and the COPS who tell you what they will haul you in for. The fact that you are right and they are wrong does NOT mean your day will not be ruined just the same.
I was reading a "standard magazine" thread on Officer.com and it seems to be the case that most of the Officers there seem to think possesion of a + 10 round magazine is unlawful. Its insane how many LEO's don't seem to know the law. We seem to be dammed no matter what we do.
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Old 03-25-2013, 8:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
I was advised at CCW class to NOT carry mags over ten rounds, even if you have legal ones that are larger. Why? Because of this.

YES it is illegal. But....
YES you will get arrested;
YES you can lose your CCW;
YES you may get cleared in court, but
YES it will cost you time, money, and heartache to do it.
NO if pre-ban it is not illegal to posses
YES you might get arrested, however a DA would be unable to issue based on lack of corpus
NO you would not loose CCW unless charged and convicted (go back to previous YES
YES you would be cleared in court if it gets that far
YES it may cost time and money
BUT it will cost only if you fail to pursue the false arrest and or wrongful prosecution.
Bottom line know the laws and stick up for yourself.
PS: CCW classes are supposed to inform you as to the state of the law, the state of the law is no deep dark secret read it yourself.

Bought an M&P 15-22 last month and they tried to make me sign a statement verifying that I was aware that a bullet button was required. Kind of tired of so-called experts in these gun laws not knowing squat.
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  #29  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:43 PM
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It is time to deflate completely. Our governing powers no longer have any credibility.
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Old 03-21-2013, 5:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Shotgun Man View Post
It is time to deflate completely. Our governing powers no longer have any credibility.
But they get away with all they do.
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  #31  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:06 PM
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Good thing I don't own any.
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  #32  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:25 PM
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Well I know people have had their lawfully owned 30 round magazines confiscated by law enforcement and destroyed due to that state law. There's more than one thread about it happening on here.
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Old 03-09-2013, 9:02 AM
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Well I know people have had their lawfully owned 30 round magazines confiscated by law enforcement and destroyed due to that state law. There's more than one thread about it happening on here.
Wow. More info and links please.
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Old 03-06-2013, 5:34 PM
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If this attempt at infringement comes to pass we're going to see a lot of people contributing to make a legal example of Los Angeles.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:40 PM
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It is completely unlawful/unconstitutional for a county, city, or other small municipality to pass any laws or ordinances that are stricter then state law. It is in violation of the commerce clause. Once passed it will have an injunction put on it (at least should) because it violates the 4th Amendment rights of citizens that dont live in city limits but have to travel through to get to their destination.
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Old 03-09-2013, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by volksweegle View Post
It is completely unlawful/unconstitutional for a county, city, or other small municipality to pass any laws or ordinances that are stricter then state law. It is in violation of the commerce clause. Once passed it will have an injunction put on it (at least should) because it violates the 4th Amendment rights of citizens that dont live in city limits but have to travel through to get to their destination.
I think it's just unlawful for state, county and city laws to be more lenient, not stricter. But I could be wrong.
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Old 03-10-2013, 7:33 AM
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I think it's just unlawful for state, county and city laws to be more lenient, not stricter. But I could be wrong.
Yes, you're wrong. Cities have to be mindful of state preemption and the Constitution.
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Old 03-08-2013, 9:41 AM
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Trutanich is an embarrassment for Los Angeles and those here that promoted him. Who knew?

D'oh!
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Old 03-08-2013, 2:43 PM
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Trutanich is an embarrassment for Los Angeles and those here that promoted him. Who knew?

D'oh!
I recall that some had more trepidation over that support than others. Nuff said.
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Old 03-09-2013, 5:29 AM
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won't the city have to PROVE that the magazine was not legally owned prior to 2000? I mean short of watching you drive home from Reno with them, having mags for a gun that didn't exist prior to 2000 or admitting to manufacture they've got a tough row to hoe.
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