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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-29-2013, 9:56 PM
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Smile LaPierre is an awful speaker

I'm a member of the NRA and firm believer in gun rights so it kills me when I see the creepy and out of touch LaPierre out in public speaking for us.
Am I the only one that feels this way?
I know he's the vice President of the NRA but is there anyway we can hire a more eloquent and quick minded speaker? He's nothing but fodder for the anti- gun pundits.
I give good hard earned money to the NRA, all I ask is that they represent us well. In the meantime I'll do my part and contact my representatives and continue to donate money to the cause.
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Old 01-29-2013, 9:57 PM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:27 PM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA
You could join and help change in from within?

Just a thought.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:33 PM
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You could join and help change in from within?

Just a thought.
Exactly what I was thinking. Talk about cutting off you nose to spite your face. Don't help the largest group out to help you because the head guy doesn't speak well.
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Old 01-30-2013, 4:18 AM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA
This "I won't join because of _____ reason" only further divides us. Sad how people like you just refuse to see the big picture. Don't worry, we will save freeloaders rights too.
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Old 01-30-2013, 4:30 AM
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The NRA's media strategy is a trainwreck. It's content and delivery have been poor to say the least. I don't lay it all at the feet of WLP, what we're seeing is the result of organizational, no individual, incompetence. I'm a member, but I certainly don't begrudge anyone who isn't... as long as they give to Calguns instead
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Old 01-30-2013, 1:30 PM
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This "I won't join because of _____ reason" only further divides us. Sad how people like you just refuse to see the big picture. Don't worry, we will save freeloaders rights too.
What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.
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Old 01-30-2013, 1:33 PM
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What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.
Haven't been around that long eh? They helped us defeat AB962, the online ammo ban among many other things. With the statement you made above get ready to eat crow.
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Old 01-30-2013, 1:40 PM
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Haven't been around that long eh? They helped us defeat AB962, the online ammo ban among many other things. With the statement you made above get ready to eat crow.
Wow, big deal. How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.
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Old 01-30-2013, 2:01 PM
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What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.
There is only so much NRA can do, when the people of California keep electing the same bunch clowns in the Legislature.
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2013, 2:12 PM
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There is only so much NRA can do, when the people of California keep electing the same bunch clowns in the Legislature.
And with the prolifers and Prop 8 people having killed the CA GOP.
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Old 01-30-2013, 3:28 PM
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This "I won't join because of _____ reason" only further divides us. Sad how people like you just refuse to see the big picture. Don't worry, we will save freeloaders rights too.

True. Whether you like how WL speaks or not, never mind that 1 of the 5 seats at a Senate hearing was reserved for the NRA.
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2013, 1:24 PM
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This "I won't join because of _____ reason" only further divides us. Sad how people like you just refuse to see the big picture. Don't worry, we will save freeloaders rights too.
No, it is that LaPierre divides us. Why is it incorrect to suggest we would like a better leader and better spokesman to represent us? It's not. There are a lot of LEOs that have grown weary of the NRA specifically because of LaPierre and I don't blame them. I'm sure anti-2A would froth at the opportunity to ridicule a change at the top, but if that new person comes out swinging with intelligent and rational arguments, then I would be all for it. However, we all know that at the end of the day intelligent and rational arguments mean absolutely nothing in this climate of hysteria.

I contribute to Calguns and I fully support the current Firearms Policy Coalition (just got an email actually of a new member, The West Virginia Citizens Defense League ), it is absolutely the way to go! Independent and organized with a national Pro 2A agenda. Hmmm, so who will our spokesperson be?
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2013, 3:07 PM
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No, it is that LaPierre divides us. Why is it incorrect to suggest we would like a better leader and better spokesman to represent us? It's not. There are a lot of LEOs that have grown weary of the NRA specifically because of LaPierre and I don't blame them. I'm sure anti-2A would froth at the opportunity to ridicule a change at the top, but if that new person comes out swinging with intelligent and rational arguments, then I would be all for it. However, we all know that at the end of the day intelligent and rational arguments mean absolutely nothing in this climate of hysteria.

I contribute to Calguns and I fully support the current Firearms Policy Coalition (just got an email actually of a new member, The West Virginia Citizens Defense League ), it is absolutely the way to go! Independent and organized with a national Pro 2A agenda. Hmmm, so who will our spokesperson be?
You're still making a huge mistake if you're not an NRA member...
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:07 AM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA
Keene has been on TV fairly often - that doesn't work to loosen up your wallet a bit? One person is on your "don't like list" and that's why you don't join NRA - really? LaPierre hasn't been in his NRA position forever. Were you ever in NRA?

I will agree, NRA ought to use someone other than LaPierre when addressing middle of the road types. It seems to me he's best for preaching to the choir.

I've been and am in all sorts of organizations. I don't agree with everything they stand for or how they're run, it's always a balancing act. With ACLU I'm lucky to hit "50 - 50".

To borrow a phrase from work you're making very good the enemy of perfect.

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  #16  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:19 AM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA
Ugh...really?


So what ARE you doing to further RKBA other than posting on CalGuns.net?
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  #17  
Old 01-30-2013, 3:40 PM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA
That's bad form. Not defensible!
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2013, 3:40 AM
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Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA


-178S
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Old 01-29-2013, 9:58 PM
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I agree. Terrible speaker.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:03 PM
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completely agree. I love how he shoves all the blame to the 1A, believing in censorship in video games and movies. If you guys haven't seen Henson Ong speak in CT yet, you guys should check it out. If only LaPierre made the points he made. LaPierre essentially just pushed anti-gun people to believe that gun owners are pretty much exactly what they had already stereotyped.
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Old 01-30-2013, 3:31 AM
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I love how he shoves all the blame to the 1A, believing in censorship in video games and movies.
I love that too, because they're the actual root of the problem. And, they are the ones that blame the 2A for the fact that kids are desensitized to killing. Hollywood needs to STFU and look at themselves.
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Old 01-30-2013, 9:39 AM
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I love that too, because they're the actual root of the problem. And, they are the ones that blame the 2A for the fact that kids are desensitized to killing. Hollywood needs to STFU and look at themselves.
Just to be clear.. my "love" was sarcasm. I can't agree with your point about kids being desensitized to killing solely based on video games and movies... but Hollywood does need to STFU a lot of times. If anything, lack of parenting and just shoving brain pills into a kid's mouth hoping for magic fixes really mess things up more. Just look up all the spree shooters and you'll notice majority of them were on psychiatric meds.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:46 PM
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Just to be clear.. my "love" was sarcasm. I can't agree with your point about kids being desensitized to killing solely based on video games and movies... but Hollywood does need to STFU a lot of times. If anything, lack of parenting and just shoving brain pills into a kid's mouth hoping for magic fixes really mess things up more. Just look up all the spree shooters and you'll notice majority of them were on psychiatric meds.
I know. Clever, aren't I?

I think since they (Hollywood) seem to take such an active role in battling the 2A, they should have to answer up for their own sins. Which are much more significant contributors to the problem than you or I. Yet they use their influence that is made possible by us, and our money, against us. And for that I say they should eat a duck.

Are pills causing a problem? Maybe so, its hard to say since we don't know what our kids would be like if they weren't programmed to kill from a young age. But I don't see the pharmaceuticals on TV screaming for our guns to be taken from us, that is done by people like Scarlett Johanson, Silvester Stalone, etc etc.
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Old 01-30-2013, 9:24 AM
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completely agree. I love how he shoves all the blame to the 1A, believing in censorship in video games and movies. If you guys haven't seen Henson Ong speak in CT yet, you guys should check it out. If only LaPierre made the points he made. LaPierre essentially just pushed anti-gun people to believe that gun owners are pretty much exactly what they had already stereotyped.
"We do not need the government infringing on our civil rights, attempting to control the behavior of law-abiding citizens, and criminalizing things they don't understand that are used by millions of people who have done no wrong in a knee-jerk reaction to a tragic event involving the deaths of children.

Instead, the government needs to infringe on our civil rights, control the behavior of law-abiding citizens, and criminalize things they don't understand that are used by millions of people who have done no wrong...for our children."
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Old 01-31-2013, 2:22 PM
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completely agree. I love how he shoves all the blame to the 1A, believing in censorship in video games and movies. If you guys haven't seen Henson Ong speak in CT yet, you guys should check it out. If only LaPierre made the points he made. LaPierre essentially just pushed anti-gun people to believe that gun owners are pretty much exactly what they had already stereotyped.
Exactly
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:05 PM
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He's no Chuck Heston. We need a LIKEABLE head of the NRA. I like LaPierre's views on guns but he's just not likeable. Chuck Heston was likeable. Someone like a Dustin Ellerman would be great.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:58 PM
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Cool Wayne La Pierre: Mudslingers favorite

Bloomberg funded propaganda machine, Obama's campaign machine now turned into propaganda attack machine, and of course the lamestream media are all directed to destroying at best, marginalizing at the least, the public image of the NRA. Wayne will be a main target simply for being who he is, so be careful of falling into the web they are creating (Did you all see the Tweets "reporters" were throwing when WLP was giving his speech, they could not wait until the speech was over before marshaling opinion against him/us/NRA, preparing the talking points used against him forthwith). There will never be anyone speaking for the NRA that will not be attacked, this is simple reality. You play their game and attack WLP when he is/has done nothing wrong except be low-hanging fruit for their attacks. Heston "likeable"?. Heston dealt with nothing but insults and attacks from the anti-gun crowd when he was alive, what kind of revisionism is that view?. Look at Col. West, for example. Man "told it like it was", and the media ganged up on him, painting him as a "nutbar" and succeeded in him being ousted. Do you think it would be anything less for any spokesperson for NRA?. If anything in this propaganda war, NRA is dropping the ball by not being more proactive and aggressive. They already hate and will attack and put the pro-rights side down anyway, so what is there to lose?. I say: Fix Bayonets...
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2013, 8:13 AM
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Bloomberg funded propaganda machine, Obama's campaign machine now turned into propaganda attack machine, and of course the lamestream media are all directed to destroying at best, marginalizing at the least, the public image of the NRA. Wayne will be a main target simply for being who he is, so be careful of falling into the web they are creating (Did you all see the Tweets "reporters" were throwing when WLP was giving his speech, they could not wait until the speech was over before marshaling opinion against him/us/NRA, preparing the talking points used against him forthwith). There will never be anyone speaking for the NRA that will not be attacked, this is simple reality. You play their game and attack WLP when he is/has done nothing wrong except be low-hanging fruit for their attacks. Heston "likeable"?. Heston dealt with nothing but insults and attacks from the anti-gun crowd when he was alive, what kind of revisionism is that view?. Look at Col. West, for example. Man "told it like it was", and the media ganged up on him, painting him as a "nutbar" and succeeded in him being ousted. Do you think it would be anything less for any spokesperson for NRA?. If anything in this propaganda war, NRA is dropping the ball by not being more proactive and aggressive. They already hate and will attack and put the pro-rights side down anyway, so what is there to lose?. I say: Fix Bayonets...
Whatever. Just because he's leading something important doesn't make him the right man at the right time.

WLP is good at fire and brimstone which motivates the faithful to give more in times of relative calm, and everyone else just ignores him. That made him an OK, if uninspired, NRA leader in 2008.

He's so bad speaking to moderates or in debate it's actually shocking. No head of the NRA should ever lose to someone as mediocre as Piers, and WLP certainly did. That makes him a bad leader for what is happening in 2013.

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Old 01-30-2013, 9:05 AM
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Whatever. Just because he's leading something important doesn't make him the right man at the right time.

WLP is good at fire and brimstone which motivates the faithful to give more in times of relative calm, and everyone else just ignores him. That made him an OK, if uninspired, NRA leader in 2008.

He's so bad speaking to moderates or in debate it's actually shocking. No head of the NRA should ever lose to someone as mediocre as Piers, and WLP certainly did. That makes him a bad leader for what is happening in 2013.
^ This, i know his message gets traction with gun owners, but i think that is about it, it's important to reach out to people that are anti-gun or somewhere in the middle with arguments that get them to realize that the tool is not the problem the operator is.

I remember Charlton Heston debating people so well they were stumped and could barely respond to his arguments have yet to see that with Wayne.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:08 PM
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Seems like a good speaker to me. I think he comes across as humble, inteligent, and determined.

Although I can't say I ever saw Heston speak for the NRA, gonna have yt that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 4:23 AM
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You can't deny the fax that he is no pushover though. We need a tough speaker for the NRA and He is it. I think likeabe would be a liability.
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Old 01-30-2013, 4:34 AM
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You can't deny the fax that he is no pushover though. We need a tough speaker for the NRA and He is it. I think likeabe would be a liability.
True. The issue with many gun owners (calgunners) is that virtually noone can or will ever met their expectations except themselves. People were ripping on Charlton Heston the other day. Bunch of armchair quarterbacks who main objective in life is to biatch biatch biatch about everything under the sun. Bunch of whiny negative nancy's.

Unga bunga....I glad I wore a thong today because otherwise my panties would be all bunched up.
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Old 01-30-2013, 9:27 AM
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True. The issue with many gun owners (calgunners) is that virtually noone can or will ever met their expectations except themselves. People were ripping on Charlton Heston the other day. Bunch of armchair quarterbacks who main objective in life is to biatch biatch biatch about everything under the sun. Bunch of whiny negative nancy's.

Unga bunga....I glad I wore a thong today because otherwise my panties would be all bunched up.
THIS! UNGA BUNGA, I CONCUR!
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Old 01-30-2013, 9:30 AM
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Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."
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  #35  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:10 AM
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luvtolean luvtolean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."
Great. Make him the COO.

Someone that looks like they actually want to be there needs to be the one on TV and in front of Congress.

Compare Nugent and WLP. Nuge is loving every minute of it, WLP looks like he'd rather be having a colonoscopy.
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  #36  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:35 AM
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I agree with that, and more perhaps what LaPierre's role really is and where he is the most effective.

However we have to at least see that the NRA, in the court of public relations and image handling in the mainstream, can use more charisma and a better strategy. It certainly is that LaPierre should not be the only source in front of a camera doing that. It needs to be more saavy, and in a way that represents also a voice to a younger generation as well.

IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."
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  #37  
Old 01-30-2013, 3:45 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."
Actually no, we're not...

I am sure that WLP is an excellent lobbiest and a fairly good strategist. That in no way guarantees he'll be a good front man or CEO.

That's like making the best engineer or accountant the department manager. It might work but more often than not it does not work. The skills they have as great engineers and accountants do not necessarily translate into great leadership and managerial skills.
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  #38  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:51 PM
adrenalinemedic adrenalinemedic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."
Then he needs to stay the hell off of Piers Morgan's show, etc and stick to the halls (and alleys) of DC.

If we have pro-gun people (in this very thread!) who won't join NRA because LaPierre comes off like a mumbly, creepy uncle, how do you think that helps the 2nd Amendment campaign as a whole, with new members, young people, women, and undecideds?

You don't send your junkyard dog to the Westminster Dog Show. You send your proper, groomed, showdog, and you take that goddamn 1st place.
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  #39  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:04 AM
LuvLRBs LuvLRBs is offline
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I think the NRA needs multiple representatives speaking for it, including an articulate woman. The country has changed demographically and I hear a lot of " old white guys" bashing. Like the republican party, the NRA can't be seen as being out if touch with the "new" America. People need to feel welcome and get drawn into the positive aspects of firearm ownership. (disclaimer: female poster here)
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  #40  
Old 01-30-2013, 5:17 AM
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kick Z tail out kick Z tail out is offline
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Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
Like the republican party, the NRA can't be seen as being out if touch with the "new" America.
Absolutely. There needs to be an illegal alien face of the NRA.



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