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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-15-2012, 7:39 PM
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Default Helping my mom ULCC

ok so my mom is going to start ULCC, she recently got a DV restraining order and is in fear of retaliation.

So, I am looking into all the laws and pulling my hair out lol I am also putting together a printout for her with quotes from different PC in case of a misinformed LEO.

Here is what I have so far:

PC 626.9
a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
....
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.


PC 16850
As used in Sections 17740, 23925, 25105, 25205, and 25610,
in Article 3 (commencing with Section 25505) of Chapter 2 of Division
5 of Title 4, and in Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 26350) of
Division 5 of Title 4, "locked container" means a secure container
that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination
lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not
include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

PC 16860
As used in Sections 16850, 25105, and 25205, "locking device"
means a device that is designed to prevent a firearm from
functioning and, when applied to the firearm, renders the firearm
inoperable.


26405. Section 26400 does not apply to, or affect, the carrying
of an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun in any of the following
circumstances:

(c) When the firearm is either in a locked container or encased
and it is being transported directly between any place
places where a person is not prohibited from
possessing that firearm and the course of travel shall include only
those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably
necessary under the circumstances.


am I forgetting anything?

thanks.

Last edited by Dantedamean; 11-15-2012 at 7:51 PM..
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Old 11-15-2012, 7:41 PM
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All due respect but, I see this ending poorly...
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2012, 10:07 AM
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Post Leave the state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invisible_Dave View Post
All due respect but, I see this ending poorly...
Ditto.

Can anyone reading this thread imagine that the allegedly crazed cop in question is ever unarmed?

That his situational awareness is inferior to the woman's?

That his muscle memory is less well-engrained than hers?

That he would know how to use a smaller variety of weapons, including both contact weapons (knife, etc.) and distance weapons (handgun, shotgun, and rifle)?

I'm not suggesting that she should not prepare or fight back.

However, her best bet is to leave the state and move to one where he has no jurisdiction, no law enforcement buddies, and little or no means of influencing the law enforcement system to his advantage.

This might sound impractical.

But she would be better off using lethal force against him in another state than if she were to do it here--assuming she has all the things she'd need to win a fight with him (armed or unarmed).

Why do I advocate going to this length to ensure her safety?

Too many people in the system have too much willingness to give the alleged perpetrator the benefit of the doubt just because he is an LEO--despite reasons not to do so, which they conveniently ignore. Disagree with me about this?

The exception to this proves the rule.

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Old 11-18-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarn_Helm View Post
However, her best bet is to leave the state
^ This.

Sometimes you need to recognize when you're playing a bad hand, fold, and go on to the next one. It sucks, it feels like letting the bad guys win and goes against every instinct of my being, but the most important thing is your mom's safety. If the situation is as the OP says[1], the cards are too stacked against her. If she stays and chooses to carry a weapon, I see one of three things happening:

1) She doesn't need it. If she carries illegally, she runs the risk of legal penalties.

2) She needs it and attempts to use it in self defense, against someone who's stronger and better trained. Somewhere on page twelve the next day is a small article about a retired police officer having to shoot their ex in self-defense, possibly even with a quote about how this tragedy would never have happened without all these guns out there in our communities.

3) She needs it and uses it successfully in self-defense. Congratulations, she's now shot a retired police officer. She does have a documented history of reported threats and violated restraining orders, which is something. But pretty much everything else about the situation as the OP describes it is stacked against her. At best it's going to take a pile of money (which the OP says they don't have) to keep her from going to jail for a very, very long time.

Leave, and live to fight another day. (If she really does want to take up the fight, be a spokesperson for carry rights... or perhaps, as another poster said, a plaintiff.)

-g


[1] If there's one thing I've learned in my time on this planet, it's that there are two sides to every story. I hope you understand, OP, that I don't know you and I don't know the situation. So I'm giving you my 2c based on the presumption that everything you've said is true and there really isn't another side to it...
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Old 11-18-2012, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarn_Helm View Post
Ditto.

Can anyone reading this thread imagine that the allegedly crazed cop in question is ever unarmed?

That his situational awareness is inferior to the woman's?

That his muscle memory is less well-engrained than hers?

That he would know how to use a smaller variety of weapons, including both contact weapons (knife, etc.) and distance weapons (handgun, shotgun, and rifle)?


The exception to this proves the rule.

Is this why most police seem to need to empty their gun to stop a threat and civilians dont?
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Old 11-15-2012, 8:27 PM
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Unfortunately, LUCC ( locked unloaded concealed carry) is an ineffective means of self defense. I hold a CCW permit and carry daily, and must thus state that even with a loaded pistol on my hip in certain cases I'd be unable to defend myself. LUCC presents a problem because any situation which allows you mother enough time to unlock, load, chamber, and shoot is enough time to withdraw and dial 911.
This point is important considering that after any live fire defensive incident the citizen WILL have to justify their actions in court.
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Old 11-15-2012, 8:32 PM
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LUCC may be useful in a mass shooting situation (where you may need a firearm for self defense, but are not necessarily the primary target), but unlikely to be useful for immediate self defense when you are the specific target. I've timed myself with my own setup and it takes me 8 seconds from reaching for it to loaded/cocked. Too slow if facing a crazy person with a knife or gun after you.

I'd tell her to get a taser or other personal defense device that allows for unpermitted "loaded" concealed carry.
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Old 11-16-2012, 1:08 AM
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i agree with all the above about talking your mom out of LUCC, key reasons:

Training: how much firearm experience does she have? can she safely unload it while blind folded, hanging upside down? how much range time does she have? you have to remember that your intention is to keep her safe. if you dont have confidence in her skill and ability, its best to keep the gun away from her before she gets hurt by her own gun

Practicalilty: those of us who carries everyday, we struggle enought to shave seconds of our draw-to-shoot speed. in the event that she faces someone and wants to use her gun, it will take WAY to long for anyone to go through the process of unlocking and loading the gun. like mentioned before, its more of a last option tool in case of a mass shooting where you have "some" time to actually go through the entire loading process.
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Old 11-17-2012, 4:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Stunna Lot View Post
Training: how much firearm experience does she have? can she safely unload it while blind folded, hanging upside down? how much range time does she have? you have to remember that your intention is to keep her safe. if you dont have confidence in her skill and ability, its best to keep the gun away from her before she gets hurt by her own gun
So should she leave her firearm at home and be without it in a life threatening situation and die? I always wonder why people tend to post that leaving it at home is better until some undescribed level of training is reach.

What would be the appropriate level of training and who gets to determine that? You, me, Obama, or the Brady Campaign? How would we trust those that set the training requirements are free from ulterior motives?
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Old 11-17-2012, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stator View Post
So should she leave her firearm at home and be without it in a life threatening situation and die? I always wonder why people tend to post that leaving it at home is better until some undescribed level of training is reach.
Politics aside, she is denied use of her weapon either way. Instead of it being locked up at home its locked up on her person. 6 in one and half dozen in the other.
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stator View Post
So should she leave her firearm at home and be without it in a life threatening situation and die? I always wonder why people tend to post that leaving it at home is better until some undescribed level of training is reach.

What would be the appropriate level of training and who gets to determine that? You, me, Obama, or the Brady Campaign? How would we trust those that set the training requirements are free from ulterior motives?
Fair question, since i didnt specify what is considered proper training, let me elaborate:

1.) OP should show his mom how to load and unload the gun safely/correctly/appropriately, make sure she practice with live rounds and no rounds. give her a week and then ask her: "mom, are you 100% confident in your ability and are you scared at all of the gun?" If she answers incorrectly to either, give her some more time to practice and get more comfortable and ask her again untill she answers both correctly.
2.) Op should take his mom to the range and teach her to shoot the gun and hit a life size target, i would suggest at 7 yards. Assuming the OP knows how to shoot, he should be able to see when his mom is competent and comfortable enough on the trigger
3.) Op should explain the self defense law to his mom. Have her understand the "concept" of "only use the gun if you feel like your life is in immidiate danger". He needs to make sure that she understand the concept, when to properly use the gun and have her explain to him in her own word to make sure that she fully gasp the concept and isn not just repeating what was told to her. Also throw in the LUCC laws too.

Those are the 3 steps i have taken and used for people who want to learn about guns and self defense. I usually start with step 3 first, however, either orders will work perfectly fine.

You just have to use common sense sometime, no need to anyone else to make a checklist for you on this one. Chances are that if you feel that someone isnt ready, they probably arent. However, if you taught them well and you have confidence in them, they are probably ready.
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Old 11-16-2012, 7:13 AM
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Come on guys! Of cause there are situations when even LCC will not be enough to protect yourself. But this is not a reason to completely give up and to leave gun at home. Sure, LCC is a MUCH better option IF it is available. What if it is not?!...
Yes, if you are attacked and struggling to fight of the aggressor, ULCC will not be much useful. But this is not the only type of attack. Sometimes victim does see the attack coming from a distance. Sometimes victim may be able to lock herself into a bathroom or a closet or a car before attacker gets to her. It will not give you protection, but will give you enough time to get ready.
We all agree here: LCC is better and ULCC is not perfect. But if legal LCC is not an option, would you still prefer ULCC to being unarmed?

To answer the OP question, read here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...71&postcount=1
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Old 11-16-2012, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by vladbutsky View Post
Come on guys! Of cause there are situations when even LCC will not be enough to protect yourself. But this is not a reason to completely give up and to leave gun at home. Sure, LCC is a MUCH better option IF it is available. What if it is not?!...
Yes, if you are attacked and struggling to fight of the aggressor, ULCC will not be much useful. But this is not the only type of attack. Sometimes victim does see the attack coming from a distance. Sometimes victim may be able to lock herself into a bathroom or a closet or a car before attacker gets to her. It will not give you protection, but will give you enough time to get ready.
We all agree here: LCC is better and ULCC is not perfect. But if legal LCC is not an option, would you still prefer ULCC to being unarmed?

To answer the OP question, read here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...71&postcount=1
I totally agree.

The first rule of a gunfight is have a gun. OK, maybe the law restricts how fast you can get it into action, and that might negate some utility, but leaving it at home negates all utility.

"Oh, if you can't cater for every circumstance, don't bother to cater for anything?" is what some of you are saying.
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Last edited by Glock22Fan; 11-16-2012 at 1:02 PM..
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Old 11-16-2012, 1:25 PM
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I would rather have a loaded accessible "Taser and Pepper Spray" than a LUCC.
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Old 11-16-2012, 1:36 PM
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I would rather have a loaded accessible "Taser and Pepper Spray" than a LUCC.
Or both.

I think it is up to the individual to choose their own comfort level with all this. Tasers are not much use against more than one attacker, and pepper spray can be hit and miss.
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Old 11-16-2012, 1:57 PM
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I want to know where she is going to get training to pull out that locked gun, unlock it, load it, then get off a shot. If you do not have proper training for this exact type of situation, you will make things worse if she has to rely on that firearm that is unloaded and locked.
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Old 11-16-2012, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladbutsky View Post
Come on guys! Of cause there are situations when even LCC will not be enough to protect yourself. But this is not a reason to completely give up and to leave gun at home. Sure, LCC is a MUCH better option IF it is available. What if it is not?!...
Yes, if you are attacked and struggling to fight of the aggressor, ULCC will not be much useful. But this is not the only type of attack. Sometimes victim does see the attack coming from a distance. Sometimes victim may be able to lock herself into a bathroom or a closet or a car before attacker gets to her. It will not give you protection, but will give you enough time to get ready.
We all agree here: LCC is better and ULCC is not perfect. But if legal LCC is not an option, would you still prefer ULCC to being unarmed?

To answer the OP question, read here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...71&postcount=1
Thank you, finally.
I'm always amazed on this forum at how many so called progun guys are completely against someone carrying a weapon. The point of this thread got completely lost.

Last edited by Dantedamean; 11-16-2012 at 8:37 AM..
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Thank you, finally.
I'm always amazed on this forum at how many so called progun guys are completely against someone carrying a weapon. The point of this thread got completely lost.
By all means read thru that post (and there's another one... somewhere). The short answer is now that OC is illegal LUCC is of questionable legality in the general case. It's certainly legal in your vehicle and between your house and your vehicle.

You may want to consider adding pepper spray to the arsenal since it can be carried everywhere.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:44 AM
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I agree. While it's not the most efficient method of carry, LUCC does give you certain options. More options concerning situations where your life may be at risk is always better. And the gun could always be part of a get home bag/kit, too. Doesn't necessarily HAVE to be just for the purposes of immediate self-defense. Again, more options.

I think the point others are driving at is your mother shouldn't rely on LUCC as her primary means of self-defense. It's too slow for that purpose. Make sure she realizes that its a measure of absolute last resort ONLY if she has time, and even then ONLY if she has nowhere left to hide or run.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:55 AM
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Does the issue if a restraining order provide grounds for requesting an LTC ? May help depending on the County
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:58 AM
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Too slow if facing a crazy person with a knife or gun after you.
The odds ARE enormous. Because of that, for every 50 rounds I shoot, I practice the fetal position for 5 minutes. The other members are used to it now, some join me.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:14 AM
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Does the issue if a restraining order provide grounds for requesting an LTC ? May help depending on the County
She tried. The dudes a retired LEO, so it's been a ***** just to get anyone to help us. This is the 3rd restraining order in 2 years. No matter how many times he violates them and no matter what threats he makes, most of the mentality we get is: come back when he tries to kill you. It's really getting annoying. I live in glendora, she was denied a CCW once already. I told her to try again but she is discouraged.

Now that he is escalating I just want my mom to have all the options available to her. I've trained her in krav maga, I've started training her in knife fighting and I've taught her how to shoot.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:22 AM
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She tried. The dudes a retired LEO, so it's been a ***** just to get anyone to help us. This is the 3rd restraining order in 2 years. No matter how many times he violates them and no matter what threats he makes, most of the mentality we get is: come back when he tries to kill you. It's really getting annoying. I live in glendora, she was denied a CCW once already. I told her to try again but she is discouraged.
.
I'd suggest placing that information in front of the Judge who granted the order and see if he can help. Sounds like the investment in a DV/Family practice Lawyers time would also be worth investigating. 3 Orders in 2 years means something isnt being followed through on.
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Old 11-18-2012, 1:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
She tried. The dudes a retired LEO, so it's been a ***** just to get anyone to help us. This is the 3rd restraining order in 2 years. No matter how many times he violates them and no matter what threats he makes, most of the mentality we get is: come back when he tries to kill you. It's really getting annoying. I live in glendora, she was denied a CCW once already. I told her to try again but she is discouraged.

Now that he is escalating I just want my mom to have all the options available to her. I've trained her in krav maga, I've started training her in knife fighting and I've taught her how to shoot.
Contact a local television station and ask them to do a story on violence against women, including your mother's situation.

The more people that know about it may help her get something done.
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Old 11-21-2012, 8:40 PM
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Contact a local television station and ask them to do a story on violence against women, including your mother's situation.

The more people that know about it may help her get something done.
Ditto.

Two scenarios seem likely if she succeeds in enlisting the help of the media.

1) It will intimidate the former LEO and bring "off the record" pressure from his LEO peers, prompting him to back down.

2) It will enrage him, make him antagonize her more, and it may possibly make him snap and finish her off, with the perp throwing all caution to the wind, regardless of potential circumstances.

#2 seems a bit unlikely.

Before moving your mom out of the state, I myself would probably try to get the media involved.

Try KNBC. This station seems to be the most sympathetic to the kind of story you have to tell.

And remember, to them it is just a story.

So substantiate every claim the best you can with witnesses and evidence.

Good luck to OP and the alleged victim.

I don't envy your predicament.

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Last edited by Tarn_Helm; 11-21-2012 at 8:41 PM.. Reason: comment about #2
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:29 PM
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I'd suggest placing that information in front of the Judge who granted the order and see if he can help. Sounds like the investment in a DV/Family practice Lawyers time would also be worth investigating. 3 Orders in 2 years means something isnt being followed through on.
The judge is part of the problem.
She's in the category of come back when he tries to kill you. I'm amazed she granted the new TRO.

Edit: oh and she has about 60k of unpaid attorney fees because the divorce was drug out for 2 years. There is no money to higher a lawyer.
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Old 11-16-2012, 2:40 PM
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The judge is part of the problem.
She's in the category of come back when he tries to kill you. I'm amazed she granted the new TRO.

Edit: oh and she has about 60k of unpaid attorney fees because the divorce was drug out for 2 years. There is no money to higher a lawyer.
I went through a similar situation with an active duty Police officer and Swat team member. Every single person on the force I talked to basically told me to "document everything and hope your family isnt killed when he finally snaps".

Instead I went to the FBI... Nothing happened, he still continues to rape and beat this woman regularly and is on an insane power trip. Dont really care anymore as the woman turned out to be a disgusting pile of crap deserving of the life she chose to run back too.

Interestingly enough he still works for Ventura PD. I will never trust that department again, the Ventura Sheriffs Department are the only people I talk to now. Sadly because of political pressure they couldnt get involved either.

This man had active duty officers following his ex-wife, threatening her, pulling her over and harrasing her. He stalked her regularly and even had traces run on peoples license plates whenever she was over at their home. A grotesque violation of the powers trusted to him.

You want my advice, if you read some more laws there is a clause that states you can carry when you are in fear of your life. DO NOT **** AROUND WITH YOUR MOMS LIFE, GET HER TRAINING AND A GUN AND **** THE STATE
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Old 11-17-2012, 7:33 AM
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....You want my advice, if you read some more laws there is a clause that states you can carry when you are in fear of your life. DO NOT **** AROUND WITH YOUR MOMS LIFE, GET HER TRAINING AND A GUN AND **** THE STATE
^ At least someone gets it. If she's worried about the legalities she's not afraid of him enough to start packin'.
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Old 11-17-2012, 8:13 AM
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I went through a similar situation with an active duty Police officer and Swat team member. Every single person on the force I talked to basically told me to "document everything and hope your family isnt killed when he finally snaps".

Instead I went to the FBI... Nothing happened, he still continues to rape and beat this woman regularly and is on an insane power trip. Dont really care anymore as the woman turned out to be a disgusting pile of crap deserving of the life she chose to run back too.

Interestingly enough he still works for Ventura PD. I will never trust that department again, the Ventura Sheriffs Department are the only people I talk to now. Sadly because of political pressure they couldnt get involved either.

This man had active duty officers following his ex-wife, threatening her, pulling her over and harrasing her. He stalked her regularly and even had traces run on peoples license plates whenever she was over at their home. A grotesque violation of the powers trusted to him.

You want my advice, if you read some more laws there is a clause that states you can carry when you are in fear of your life. DO NOT **** AROUND WITH YOUR MOMS LIFE, GET HER TRAINING AND A GUN AND **** THE STATE
^^^ +100%. I personally know someone in an area that issues LTC and this person was denied despite NOT being a prohibited person (no FELONIES or CONVICTIONS of ANY KIND in their LIFE. EVER!).. That person packs concealed locked & loaded every single day after that slap in the face. Look at it this way: If the concealed handgun is legally registered in your name (and you are even caught with it - when was the last time you were actually searched if you are a law-abiding citizen?), it is only a misdemeanor anyway, so you would not even become a felon if you actually had to use the weapon in a clear-cut, justified situation. And you may very well lose your gun. Sounds a WHOLE lot better to me than being murdered, dontcha' think? I totally agree with the above (especially after reading the poster's circumstances): F**K THE STATE. That's all there is to it. Some of us would rather risk a misdemeanor than risk their kids losing their parent(s) forever.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:48 AM
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^^^ +100%. I personally know someone in an area that issues LTC and this person was denied despite NOT being a prohibited person (no FELONIES or CONVICTIONS of ANY KIND in their LIFE. EVER!).. That person packs concealed locked & loaded every single day after that slap in the face. Look at it this way: If the concealed handgun is legally registered in your name (and you are even caught with it - when was the last time you were actually searched if you are a law-abiding citizen?), it is only a misdemeanor anyway, so you would not even become a felon if you actually had to use the weapon in a clear-cut, justified situation. And you may very well lose your gun. Sounds a WHOLE lot better to me than being murdered, dontcha' think? I totally agree with the above (especially after reading the poster's circumstances): F**K THE STATE. That's all there is to it. Some of us would rather risk a misdemeanor than risk their kids losing their parent(s) forever.
The only problem with this advice is what if the goblin finds out about it? As a cop he could easily have her disarmed, all nice and legal, by using his cop buddies.

If it wasn't for that factor, I would have to agree that illegal carry is the most practical solution. But as I pointed out, that is off the table due to the circumstances. No doubt something the OP already took into account.

Yep, ULCC is the only option for carrying a firearm as long as she remains in California.

Last edited by gunsandrockets; 11-17-2012 at 10:50 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 11-17-2012, 2:32 PM
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The only problem with this advice is what if the goblin finds out about it? As a cop he could easily have her disarmed, all nice and legal, by using his cop buddies.

If it wasn't for that factor, I would have to agree that illegal carry is the most practical solution. But as I pointed out, that is off the table due to the circumstances. No doubt something the OP already took into account.

Yep, ULCC is the only option for carrying a firearm as long as she remains in California.
You have a point, however I don’t see how you can assume this guys buddies will not disarm her if she goes ULCC. It’s not magic it’s just slower and more obvious.
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Old 11-17-2012, 5:34 PM
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The only problem with this advice is what if the goblin finds out about it? As a cop he could easily have her disarmed, all nice and legal, by using his cop buddies.

If it wasn't for that factor, I would have to agree that illegal carry is the most practical solution. But as I pointed out, that is off the table due to the circumstances. No doubt something the OP already took into account.

Yep, ULCC is the only option for carrying a firearm as long as she remains in California.
Sorry, but you are dead wrong (especially in that last statement). One simple solution: don't TELL anyone she is doing it. That's pretty much common sense in this case. Plus she can travel out of her jurisdiction (out of state would be optimal) to get the proper training to gain the necessary "skills" involved for the reflexes and speed she may need if it is ever called for. Then your so-called "goblins" won't be any the wiser. That's how my acquaintance did it and he/she has been carrying loaded concealed for several years now after it was obvious the local "cops" didn't "want" this person carrying for their own arbitrary reasons (this person even had LTC's already from other states when they applied, which was also conveniently "cast aside"), while they gave them out like candy to anyone else (some with rap sheets as long as your arm) who applied and/or appealed a denial.
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Old 11-16-2012, 2:27 PM
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I want to know where she is going to get training to pull out that locked gun, unlock it, load it, then get off a shot. If you do not have proper training for this exact type of situation, you will make things worse if she has to rely on that firearm that is unloaded and locked.
Ok, this is getting tiring.

First, not what this thread is about at all. I don't know how to be any clearer. This is not posted in the general gun asking about the idea of doing this. It is posted in the legal section trying to talk about the legality and PC of LUCC.

Second, I've already addressed what your saying... Read before you post. Not constructive at all and not on topic,
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Old 11-16-2012, 6:09 PM
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Ok, this is getting tiring.

First, not what this thread is about at all. I don't know how to be any clearer. This is not posted in the general gun asking about the idea of doing this. It is posted in the legal section trying to talk about the legality and PC of LUCC.

Second, I've already addressed what your saying... Read before you post. Not constructive at all and not on topic,
Just because something is legal does not make that course of action WISE.

I've been witness to domestic violence issues. Your mom won't have any time to grab a set of keys, unlock a lockbox, load a mag, chamber a round, and shoot before the attacker lands a blow. Most attacks take place inside of 21 feet , and at that distance even a 65 year old man can cover the gap in 1.5 seconds. A 250lb guy tried to assault me from a distance of 21 feet last year, and I had to literally run backwards during the draw to keep distance. That's with a loaded pistol , safety off & a hot chamber!


In the remote event of a spree shooter, your mom is best advised to get the heck out of dodge as Plan #1. Im not trying to deflate your intentions, but the laws in your state are quite clear on the point that unlicensed people are not permitted to be armed with a ready to employ weapon!.


Note, theres a serious drawback to LUCC-and it is that the weapon cannot be physically controlled by the owner at all times. A gun on the hip that's concealed is mighty hard to seize. Purses and bags are stolen all the time, however.

And then we come to the social costs. Your mom's friends might wonder why she's carrying this locked box everywhere. Normal people don't carry black boxes with locks on them everywhere , and laypeople will not be impressed when she says it contains a weapon! Even a lie doesn't help, because a locked box is a natural object of curiosity.

All of that verbiage is to say, LUCC is like kissing your sister-you deal with serious drawbacks in exchange for a nigh-worthless benefit.
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Old 11-16-2012, 2:53 PM
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ok so my mom is going to start ULCC, she recently got a DV restraining order and is in fear of retaliation.


am I forgetting anything?

thanks.
Yes, the obvious, have her apply for a CCW. A domestic is gold almost anywhere for just cause.
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Old 11-16-2012, 3:13 PM
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Yes, the obvious, have her apply for a CCW. A domestic is gold almost anywhere for just cause.
I think he already said she was turned down.
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Old 11-16-2012, 3:27 PM
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I think he already said she was turned down.
I didn't see that in his post?
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Old 11-16-2012, 7:25 PM
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I didn't see that in his post?
Read post #12.
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Old 11-17-2012, 4:07 PM
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Read post #12.
You are right, didn't see it.

He's a retired cop, move as far away as possible to a state that is shall issue.
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Old 11-16-2012, 6:47 PM
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http://www.bagmaster.com/cart/56/Fan...Belt+Packs.htm bagmaster on a belt with simple two combo lock with unloaded auto loading pistol, loaded mag in off hand pocket or pouch, practice, practice, practice while running away from the 'threat'. Have other options like spray and or taser available. Read "how to own a gun and stay out of jail".

Contact the CGF regarding her denial, she sounds like an EXCELLENT plaintiff for a future case once case law is established. Consider moving to a Kern County residence for a LTC (doesn't mean she can't still spend time where she's at).
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Last edited by Liberty1; 11-16-2012 at 6:55 PM..
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