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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-02-2012, 7:39 AM
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Default AR-15 Seized by Police for "Public Safety" reasons

Quote:
During the evening, officers also located a man with an AR-15 assault rifle slung around his neck, according to a press release. The man had an unusable, unloaded magazine in the weapon and a loaded, operable 10-round magazine in his pocket. The weapon was taken for public safety reasons, officials said.
Article

I don't know anything else about this event, except to say that the scene on the Arcata Plaza on Halloween has become outright dangerous and criminal (more of a riot than a party). Anyone carrying there, legally or not, made a very poor judgement call.

Most people around here know about bullet buttons, and ALL of the cops know about them. While the article does not state one way or the other if the rifle was legal, it sounds like the owner had his property confiscated and was not actually arrested, which smells funny to me. This feels like an illegal seizure, but the Untimely Sub-Standard is well known around here for very porr reporting. Unfortunately the article doesn't name the individual, so it's hard for me to track him down and ask (small town) but maybe it's in an LEA press release, I haven't checked.

Knowing enough to have an unloaded magazine in the rifle says to me that the owner may have been practicing Open Carry. I'd be a bit surprised if someone involved in the Open Carry movement would have been so stupid as to carry an unregistered AW instead of a BB-equipped and legally-owned AR-15. IIRC, OC of long arms isn't prohibited until next year, yes?

Just wanted to share on CalGuns. Life's been crazy and it's been a while since I've posted, so maybe this isn't even the right forum anymore. If so, mods, feel free to move it of course. BBs are still legit, right?
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2012, 7:50 AM
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I happened to talk to this individual that night. It was definitely a BB equipped rifle.

He was told they were charging him with a felony, but did not arrest him. He was also informed he could pick up the rifle the next day.

This reeks of illegal seizure.
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2012, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu View Post
I happened to talk to this individual that night. It was definitely a BB equipped rifle.

He was told they were charging him with a felony, but did not arrest him. He was also informed he could pick up the rifle the next day.

This reeks of illegal seizure.
Wow.

OK. So, we have at least anecdotal evidence at this point that the rifle was likely configured legally.

Also, good to see another Humboldt resident on the forum. There always seems to be very few of us.
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MasterYong View Post
Wow.

OK. So, we have at least anecdotal evidence at this point that the rifle was likely configured legally.

Also, good to see another Humboldt resident on the forum. There always seems to be very few of us.
Yeah you should be busy growing pot, get to it! lol j/k
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"What you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:09 AM
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That guy is not too bright.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2012, 9:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chu View Post
I happened to talk to this individual that night. It was definitely a BB equipped rifle.

He was told they were charging him with a felony, but did not arrest him. He was also informed he could pick up the rifle the next day.

This reeks of illegal seizure.
Have you advised your friend to seek the assistance of the Calguns Foundation?


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Originally Posted by skyscraper View Post
That guy is not too bright.
Who? The subject who had his property stolen or the officer responsible for taking lawfully owned property?
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Last edited by CitaDeL; 11-02-2012 at 9:58 AM..
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Have you advised your friend to seek the assistance of the Calguns Foundation?


I don't personally know him. He came through my checkout line while I was at work. I didn't think about Calguns until after he had already left.

Last edited by Chu; 11-02-2012 at 10:05 AM.. Reason: Fixed the end of the quote.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2012, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu View Post
I happened to talk to this individual that night. It was definitely a BB equipped rifle.

He was told they were charging him with a felony, but did not arrest him. He was also informed he could pick up the rifle the next day.

This reeks of illegal seizure.
Unless he just happened to have filed for a CoE from CADOJ about 6 weeks earlier, that is a lie.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:35 AM
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I've been on this. News when I can share some.

-Brandon
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2012, 9:54 AM
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I've been on this. News when I can share some.

-Brandon
This is a great way to support 2A or a waste of time helping out a nimrod who should know better. Knowing the difference would be telling.
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  #11  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:46 AM
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This is a great way to support 2A or a waste of time helping out a nimrod who should know better. Knowing the difference would be telling.
This. And until I found out contribution cash would be staying at home.
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  #12  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:53 AM
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This. And until I found out contribution cash would be staying at home.
If the guy wasn't drinking or doing anything unlawful (my sources say that he wasn't) - which we won't be able to confirm until we research the matter - then he was an innocent gun owner that got screwed. We can help him get his gun back and in any case make sure the cops are properly trained so as to [hopefully] avoid another such incident in the future - what's the downside here?

-Brandon
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by donny View Post
This. And until I found out contribution cash would be staying at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
This is a great way to support 2A or a waste of time helping out a nimrod who should know better. Knowing the difference would be telling.

You either support the right to own and carry a legally configured rifle or you do not-

If rights were predicated upon the use of flawless judgement, we would either not exercise them in the abundance of caution or abandon those with whom we disagree. That is where we as gunowners are being used against each other. Ante up or anti up. You decide.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2012, 7:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
You either support the right to own and carry a legally configured rifle or you do not-

If rights were predicated upon the use of flawless judgement, we would either not exercise them in the abundance of caution or abandon those with whom we disagree. That is where we as gunowners are being used against each other. Ante up or anti up. You decide.

This
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2012, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
You either support the right to own and carry a legally configured rifle or you do not-

If rights were predicated upon the use of flawless judgement, we would either not exercise them in the abundance of caution or abandon those with whom we disagree. That is where we as gunowners are being used against each other. Ante up or anti up. You decide.
Getting back on track....

I think that this is where we as a community can fail ourselves. Leaping to the support of someone who's judgment is so flawed, their actions are so stupid and the decisions they make are so selfish that they don't deserve our support.

People here all the time jump on any LEO who says "let the facts come out" or "give him the benefit of the doubt" when a LEO does something, but think nothing of leaping to this guys support.

How is that much different?

I mean, supporting the really stupid actions of this guy just because he is a gun owner is like supporting someone who goes running into a cross walk when they just know that traffic is too close to stop. Hey, they had the “right of way”, right! Nothing they did could be considered wrong right…I mean…They had the right away,,,,screw common sense, screw good judgment….THEY HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY…They could do no wrong!!!

Blind loyalty is not always a good thing.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by paul0660 View Post
This is a great way to support 2A or a waste of time helping out a nimrod who should know better. Knowing the difference would be telling.
Should know what better?

I wouldn't carry an AR in public on Halloween myself, but if the guy's innocent then the guy's innocent and his lawfully-possessed property was unconstitutionally seized. That's the bottom line. Not helping him would be tantamount to the wood stock guys not standing with the OLL crowd.

-Brandon
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  #17  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:38 AM
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I've been on this. News when I can share some.

-Brandon
Nice!!

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(For the record, I think my grandchildren will be retired and moved to AZ before shall-issue CCW comes to this screwed up state... and my kids are still currently young teenagers.)
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2012, 8:39 AM
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ah, felony of what? legally carry a rifle?
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Old 11-02-2012, 8:53 AM
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If they are giving him his gun back and he wasn't arrested, sounds like an overzealous cop who found out after the fact that the guy was in fact legal?
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Old 11-02-2012, 9:45 AM
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If they are giving him his gun back and he wasn't arrested, sounds like an overzealous cop who found out after the fact that the guy was in fact legal?
Not quite, and you're assuming they are just giving him his gun back. Not only was it nearly certainly an unconstitutional seizure of lawfully-possessed property, but they cannot give the gun back without the gun owner spending money on a LEGR and travelling to the PD property room to retrive the firearms, as well as suffering loss of use for the time period beginning with the taking and ending when it is returned.

-Brandon
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Not quite, and you're assuming they are just giving him his gun back. Not only was it nearly certainly an unconstitutional seizure of lawfully-possessed property, but they cannot give the gun back without the gun owner spending money on a LEGR and travelling to the PD property room to retrive the firearms, as well as suffering loss of use for the time period beginning with the taking and ending when it is returned.

-Brandon
Legally they cannot but they can still do it anyway. Wouldn't be the first time we've seen government and even law enforcement bend/ignore/break the law.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:07 AM
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Legally they cannot but they can still do it anyway. Wouldn't be the first time we've seen government and even law enforcement bend/ignore/break the law.
I suspect that this event is going to be public and painful enough that APD will be exercising an abundance of caution.

-Brandon
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Old 11-02-2012, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Not quite, and you're assuming they are just giving him his gun back. Not only was it nearly certainly an unconstitutional seizure of lawfully-possessed property, but they cannot give the gun back without the gun owner spending money on a LEGR and travelling to the PD property room to retrive the firearms, as well as suffering loss of use for the time period beginning with the taking and ending when it is returned.

-Brandon
Can he report it stolen?

Hopefully it gets cleared up real quick.
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Old 11-05-2012, 6:57 PM
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If they are giving him his gun back and he wasn't arrested, sounds like an overzealous cop who found out after the fact that the guy was in fact legal?
And that overzealous cop needs to be corrected to make sure they never make that mistake again.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:06 AM
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If it's that clear, demand (verbally) they bypass the LEGR or face a lawsuit. The result would be interesting.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:11 AM
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If it's that clear, demand (verbally) they bypass the LEGR or face a lawsuit. The result would be interesting.
That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:24 AM
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If it's that clear, demand (verbally) they bypass the LEGR or face a lawsuit. The result would be interesting.
You can't demand a law enforcement agency break the law to avoid a lawsuit.

-Brandon
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Old 11-02-2012, 2:57 PM
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You can't demand a law enforcement agency break the law to avoid a lawsuit.

-Brandon
Why not? I would think you could ‘demand’ anything you want; getting it is another story.
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Old 11-02-2012, 3:27 PM
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Why not? I would think you could ‘demand’ anything you want; getting it is another story.
It's borderline unethical for an attorney and ludicrous for any serious person or organization to demand that a law enforcement agency do something illegal (let alone to avoid litigation).

-Brandon
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Old 11-02-2012, 5:21 PM
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It's borderline unethical for an attorney and ludicrous for any serious person or organization to demand that a law enforcement agency do something illegal (let alone to avoid litigation).

-Brandon
Could such an arrangement somehow result in a conspiracy charge?
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Old 11-02-2012, 3:35 PM
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You can't demand a law enforcement agency break the law to avoid a lawsuit.

-Brandon
they can un-take it they were just borrowing it
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Old 11-02-2012, 3:39 PM
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they can un-take it they were just borrowing it
Nope. It was a seizure. Their own press release confirms it.

California Penal Code Section 33800 states:

Quote:
(a) When a firearm is taken into custody by a law enforcement officer, the officer shall issue the person who possessed the firearm a receipt describing the firearm, and listing any serial number or other identification on the firearm.
(b) The receipt shall indicate where the firearm may be recovered, any applicable time limit for recovery, and the date after which the owner or possessor may recover the firearm pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 33850).
Section 33850:
Quote:
Any person who claims title to any firearm that is in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and who wishes to have the firearm returned shall make application for a determination by the Department of Justice as to whether the applicant is eligible to possess a firearm.
Section 33855:
Quote:
No law enforcement agency or court that has taken custody of any firearm may return the firearm to any individual unless the following requirements are satisfied [].
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2012, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Nope. It was a seizure. Their own press release confirms it.

California Penal Code Section 33800 states:



Section 33850:

Section 33855:
I understand this, but how many times has someone been told they're under arrest, then been told later they were only detained.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:34 PM
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You can't demand a law enforcement agency break the law to avoid a lawsuit.

-Brandon
No need to demand when LEAs are so proficient at doing it themselves.

Breaking the law, that is.

Last edited by Wojtek; 11-03-2012 at 10:36 PM..
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:33 AM
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Brandon is gonna give an ***WHOOPIN!!!!

Keep us informed please.

And thanks for all you do.
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  #36  
Old 11-02-2012, 10:34 AM
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I know it probably might not make much sense financially on a this-case-only basis, but wouldn't a lawsuit followed by a consent decree help outright prevent this kind of event in that City, and discourage it in other venues going forward? Perhaps to include mandated discipline of officers who go off the reservation in this way.
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Last edited by Drivedabizness; 11-02-2012 at 10:34 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:37 AM
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<----I is not familiar with what LEGR stands for... Please enlighten.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplusplus View Post
<----I is not familiar with what LEGR stands for... Please enlighten.
See: http://bit.ly/YffH5r

-Brandon
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My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
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<----I is not familiar with what LEGR stands for... Please enlighten.
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/legrinfo
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:42 AM
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My Google Fu was broken when I google'd I got nothing Legal or Gun related. Thanks Brandon.

EDIT: That crap is Draconian BS!
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