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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:31 PM
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Default Just bought an M4 for SHTF got an email to not use steel cased ammo. Please help!

Hi guys I just bought a brand new Rguns M4 online from Black Star Tactical it should be arriving at my FFL any day. I just got an email a couple days ago from Black Star Tactical about my gun and that I shouldn't use steel cased ammo. here is the email.

A few words on ammunition and 16" carbines:

Our 556 NATO Carbines are test fired using PMC 223 Remington 55 grain FMJ-BT Ammunition. We recommend that you use the same or comparable loads to insure proper cycling function and operation of your carbine. We do not recommend the use of any Russian, steel or lacquered cased ammunition with this rifle. Any other case material besides brass will result in chamber fouling and extraction problems.

Russian 556 NATO ammo is notorious for not cycling the action on carbines. We highly recommend that you do NOT EVER fire any steel or lacquer cased ammo out of your new RGuns 16" carbine or any 556 MIL SPEC chambered upper receivers. Use only brass cased rounds. If you don't know how to tell the difference, steel is usually gray and lacquered is almost always green. BOTH ARE DEFINITELY A NO GO..

Our Carbines are test fired with magazine they have been shipped with, if ordered. If not we use a MIL SPEC 30 round aluminum magazine. We recommend using this magazine the first time out to insure proper operation, before using any other type of magazines such as Magpul PMags.

Before packing, the bore and chambers are scrubbed and swabbed. The BCG is given a light coat of Rem Oil as is the barrel. The rear sight, if included, is removed and packed separately due to shipping box constraints. Of course you should inspect the chamber and bore before use but It should function properly right out of the box.

Note: Proper shouldering technique when firing 16" carbines is important for cycling. Make sure to keep good, firm pressure between the butt stock and your shoulder when firing. "Soft Shouldering" a carbine will more than likely cause it to "short stroke" and lock the bolt to the rear as it would when the last round has been fired and the magazine is empty.

Let us know if you have any questions.




please let me know what you guys think. Is this normal to get this email? They did not tell me this when I ordered the gun. I really want to be able to run steel cased ammo because it is so much more affordable. Also I want to be able to run steel case because this is my SHTF rifle and I want to be able to run any ammo I come across. Any info anyone can add is welcome. Should I try and shoot steel case and see if it works? What should I do? Are there parts that I can replace that will help it run steel cased ammo?

Last edited by AbsoluteTruth; 10-05-2012 at 10:39 PM..
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:34 PM
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sounds like a cheap product
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:36 PM
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I bought it for 730.00 so it wasn't SUPER cheap but it was on the cheaper side.
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Old 10-06-2012, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
sounds like a cheap product
Not sure I would go that far but I have a theory that you want to try and train with it with the crudest ammo possible. That way if something goes down you will know your stuff will work and anything better is pure bonus. not gonna be alot of premium boat tail ammo out there after the SHTF lol.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:38 PM
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sounds like FUD to me
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:39 PM
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Lol, use only quality milspec ammo, rifle tested and designed to run on pmc bronze. Should be a red jacket meme.

Shoot what you want out of it, wolf is dirty and underpowered, but it is cheap for training and practice.

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:44 PM
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Lol, use only quality milspec ammo, rifle tested and designed to run on pmc bronze. Should be a red jacket meme.

Shoot what you want out of it, wolf is dirty and underpowered, but it is cheap for training and practice.

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So if you bought this rifle and got this email you would still try wolf in it? Oh and what is chamber fouling I am new to AR 15's?
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:48 PM
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So if you bought this rifle and got this email you would still try wolf in it? Oh and what is chamber fouling I am new to AR 15's?
I would try all ammo in it, find out what you and your rifle like the best. Fouling is how dirty the chamber gets. Some ammo, like Wolf is more dirty.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:53 PM
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I would try all ammo in it, find out what you and your rifle like the best. Fouling is how dirty the chamber gets. Some ammo, like Wolf is more dirty.
I'll try as much as I can. I don't really have the money to be buying the expensive stuff though...I'm really just hoping it will run steel. Lets say hypothetically it doesn't run steel. Is there anything that can be done to the rifle to fix the problem?
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:54 PM
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I'll try as much as I can. I don't really have the money to be buying the expensive stuff though...I'm really just hoping it will run steel. Lets say hypothetically it doesn't run steel. Is there anything that can be done to the rifle to fix the problem?
Yeah, there are a few things that can be done. One of the easiest would be to get a lighter recoil buffer. The problem is not insoluble.
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Old 10-10-2012, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AbsoluteTruth View Post
So if you bought this rifle and got this email you would still try wolf in it? Oh and what is chamber fouling I am new to AR 15's?
steel cases will expand and the laquer will soften and build up over time and sooner than later you'll have a spent case stuck in the chamber which is a ***** to get our and oft times just punches the base of the case off trying to then leaving the sides in the chamber, (insert Broken shell extractor here) which is a real pain in AR's to do.

they are basically telling you that you shouldn't shoot that nasty, dirty, sealed in laquer, (so it will work in maybe 40-50 years), russian stuff that gums up the chamber and requires detailed cleaning on a much more than regular basis.
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Old 10-10-2012, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tdyoung1958 View Post
steel cases will expand and the laquer will soften and build up over time and sooner than later you'll have a spent case stuck in the chamber which is a ***** to get our and oft times just punches the base of the case off trying to then leaving the sides in the chamber, (insert Broken shell extractor here) which is a real pain in AR's to do.

they are basically telling you that you shouldn't shoot that nasty, dirty, sealed in laquer, (so it will work in maybe 40-50 years), russian stuff that gums up the chamber and requires detailed cleaning on a much more than regular basis.
Most of the newer steel ammo like Tula use a polymer coating, which takes significantly more temperature to melt off than is generated while firing.
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Old 10-11-2012, 9:39 AM
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Most of the newer steel ammo like Tula use a polymer coating, which takes significantly more temperature to melt off than is generated while firing.
still gonna cause you issues in the long run, usually at a time when you worst need it to . . . Murphy says so

steel is for targets . . . not for bullet cases
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Old 10-08-2012, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MXRider View Post
Lol, use only quality milspec ammo, rifle tested and designed to run on pmc bronze. Should be a red jacket meme.

Shoot what you want out of it, wolf is dirty and underpowered, but it is cheap for training and practice.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
This... for practie who cares if you risk running into a FTE/FTF every 2k rounds at the range but save $200..

But if this rifle is possible going to be a HD weapon then Id run the good stuff to make sure it runs flawless and you can trust your life than get a bunch of FTF/FTE and think its the ammo and come to find out in a HD situation its the gun and all you get is a click..
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:42 PM
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You didn't buy an M4... you bought an AR15.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:43 PM
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They're just playing the CYA game. I'm sure your rifle will run fine with whatever you put down the pipe. That said, some AR's just don't seem to like the steel stuff. I do find it humorous that they state "our 556 NATO carbines are test fired using PMC 223"
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:05 PM
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They're just playing the CYA game. I'm sure your rifle will run fine with whatever you put down the pipe. That said, some AR's just don't seem to like the steel stuff. I do find it humorous that they state "our 556 NATO carbines are test fired using PMC 223"
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:07 PM
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Thank you your making me feel a little bit better about my purchase
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:09 PM
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Thank you your making me feel a little bit better about my purchase
Just go shoot it and see what happens

sounds like rguns customer support is slow but if you hassle them they'll fix it
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Old 10-09-2012, 7:45 AM
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...... some AR's just don't seem to like the steel stuff.
I find it kinda funny when people are amazed that mine shoots steel case I guess I just got lucky.. my brother's effectively became a bolt action when he ran steel...
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:06 AM
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They're just playing the CYA game.
I've read apocryphal stories of lacquer ammo gumming up the chamber and causing FTE. This is probably just RGuns trying to prevent the buyer from having that happen and thereby blaming the gun for the jam.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:14 AM
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I skipped from page 1 to 7. however that being said. All ar's should have the ability to run steel ammo.

The email is to cover them if the rifle blows up using steel.

Their is no issuie when using steel ammo- its what some only use- Ive shot over 1500 rounds out of my ar without a single failure. and thats using tula

And dont believe for a second that running steel ammo will in anyway hurt the rifle. Ive seen rifles that have shot nothing but steel have well past 20k rounds put threw them with only throat erosion.
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Old 10-11-2012, 1:44 PM
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Looks like quality AR 15's can hang with AK's...

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Old 10-11-2012, 9:47 PM
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Looks like quality AR 15's can hang with AK's...

If you'd started there you wouldn't have gone through all of this nonsense. Now stop watching Youtube and get yourself to a range.

The gun is always the cheapest part of the equation, may as well make it a good one.

I'm going to regret this, have you considered a safe?

You've already tried to cheap out on the gun and the ammo.

A gun safe is much like a motorcycle helmet, it's only worth what you put in it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:52 PM
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So if you bought this rifle and got this email you would still try wolf in it? Oh and what is chamber fouling I am new to AR 15's?
I wouldn't have bought that rifle in the first place, I would have gone with a well known, proven product.

To answer your question though, after checking the rifle over thoroughly, including the chamber with a gauge, and verifying it is a NATO spec, yes I would shoot wolf out of it. The email they sent you is likely just them covering their *** if you run **** ammo through it and have it blow up on you.

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:56 PM
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I wouldn't have bought that rifle in the first place, I would have gone with a well known, proven product.

To answer your question though, after checking the rifle over thoroughly, including the chamber with a gauge, and verifying it is a NATO spec, yes I would shoot wolf out of it. The email they sent you is likely just them covering their *** if you run **** ammo through it and have it blow up on you.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
Thank you for your input. I probably should have waited and bought something else but I got tired of saving :/

Do you think the FFL would be able to check the chamber with a gauge and verify that it is NATO spec?
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:55 PM
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i've never heard of this brand before ever
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:00 PM
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i've never heard of this brand before ever
It is Rguns which has been around for a while but they don't have the best reviews mainly because of their customer service. I haven't really seen anything out there about there rifles being bad though only customer service. but I bought the gun from an online store http://black-star-tactical.com/
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:03 PM
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i've never heard of this brand before ever
Oh and this is Rguns website http://www.rguns.net/
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:57 PM
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A qualified AR armorer should be able to go over it for you.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:02 PM
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What did you pay for this rifle if you don't mind me asking?

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:03 PM
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after some google-fu...

sounds like Rguns LPKs are all out of spec, their uppers and lowers are ok (if poorly finished) and they end up getting returned to FFLs often for breaking.

sorry bro
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:06 PM
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If you have any links it would be appreciated. Oh and what does LPK mean? Sorry I'm a noob. I appreciate your input though. I really hope for some reason its different for me..haha

Last edited by AbsoluteTruth; 10-05-2012 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:07 PM
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http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/rif...ks-beware.html
http://www.nyfirearms.com/forums/ar-...s-ar-15-a.html

LPK = lower parts kit (The internals that make the gun go bang, trigger etc)

man i'd be afraid
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:09 PM
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Lpk is the lower parts kit.

Honestly I would return it and buy a quality rifle. A grand will get you a Colt or BCM.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:21 PM
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Lpk is the lower parts kit.

Honestly I would return it and buy a quality rifle. A grand will get you a Colt or BCM.

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I really would and I still might but I don't have an extra 3-400 dollars laying around and then have to buy ammo and magazines and a scope. I don't make a lot of money. Do you think they would accept a return even if I shot it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:28 PM
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I really would and I still might but I don't have an extra 3-400 dollars laying around and then have to buy ammo and magazines and a scope. I don't make a lot of money. Do you think they would accept a return even if I shot it?
for $730 you would have been better off buying an M&P 15 Sport or a DPMS Oracle
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Old 10-06-2012, 6:46 PM
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for $730 you would have been better off buying an M&P 15 Sport or a DPMS Oracle
And you coulda got the M&P Sport for $649.....
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Old 10-06-2012, 6:58 PM
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And you coulda got the M&P Sport for $649.....
I know but I wanted the dust cover and the forward assist :/
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Old 10-14-2012, 7:47 AM
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for $730 you would have been better off buying an M&P 15 Sport or a DPMS Oracle
or 7 mosin nagants.
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