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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-13-2011, 10:52 PM
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Default To FAL or not to FAL

I want a new FN FAL, any suggestions as to a good quality manufacturer.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:59 PM
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DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:44 AM
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LOL - if the OP spends over $1000 on a new rifle, he's probably not going to drag it through the sand!!!



My FAL was very reliable, and I do prefer rifles with PGs, since they are easier to use for some reason.

FALs are not extremely hard to build - easier than AKs - but the trick is to get a good receiver. I built mine on a DSA. I did have to "machine" the barrel a little bit where it seats up against the reciever (this is crucial to timing the barrel). And I ended up using a file to "adjust" the locking shoulder to get get the right head spacing. . .

Here's some FAL resources.

http://www.gunthings.com/faltools.htm

I miss my FAL - and I wish more people would get into them - they are really elegant rifles, both in design and appearance. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle
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  #4  
Old 04-14-2011, 1:39 AM
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Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
I miss my FAL - and I wish more people would get into them - they are really elegant rifles, both in design and appearance. . .
I love my FAL, even if i need to take out a loan to shoot the thing.

Mine is built buy Entreprise, and is accurate when I do my part. Im thinking of building a second FAL to make into a DMR.

To the OP, there a few options out there, but Entreprise and DSA are gonna be your best choices IMHO.
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Old 04-14-2011, 4:30 AM
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FAL is a great rifle. Everyone needs one. The looks and ergos are what
started the black rifle disease. Pete



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Old 04-14-2011, 9:15 AM
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Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
LOL - if the OP spends over $1000 on a new rifle, he's probably not going to drag it through the sand!!!



My FAL was very reliable, and I do prefer rifles with PGs, since they are easier to use for some reason.

FALs are not extremely hard to build - easier than AKs - but the trick is to get a good receiver. I built mine on a DSA. I did have to "machine" the barrel a little bit where it seats up against the reciever (this is crucial to timing the barrel). And I ended up using a file to "adjust" the locking shoulder to get get the right head spacing. . .

Here's some FAL resources.

http://www.gunthings.com/faltools.htm

I miss my FAL - and I wish more people would get into them - they are really elegant rifles, both in design and appearance. . .
Where would you suggest for the parts kit?
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Old 04-15-2011, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle
Um suuuure... Sand cut carrier is nice but not a must. The 100 yard line won't make it unreliable. I doubt the M1a would fair much if any better in the sands of Isreal for comparison.

DSA and Imbel receivers are the way to go if you are going to build one. Enterprise seems to be putting out a FAL that is a good value. I would still rather build one myself which isn't all too difficult. The tooling will run you about 200 with a barrel vice if I remember correctly. Definately was a fun and rewarding build. Look for STG kits because those seem to be the best milsurp kits out there(made by steyr so go figure)
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  #8  
Old 04-15-2011, 6:17 PM
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Dang you guys!!!!!

I am now going to HAVE to get another FAL.

Thanks a lot!!!!!!!

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  #9  
Old 04-16-2011, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle
You are smoking crack, the Israelis never issued the M14 and Vickers plainly states that he prefers the FAL over the M14 and G3.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/battle-rifles/
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2011, 7:46 PM
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You are smoking crack, the Israelis never issued the M14 and Vickers plainly states that he prefers the FAL over the M14 and G3.

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/battle-rifles/
Actually the Israelis did use M14s as squad marksman rifles and for civil defense. Many were re-imported to the U.S. as parts kits in the 90s.
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2011, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
DS Arms get a sand cut carrier otherwise the FAL is unreliable when dirty from what I heard Larry Vickers and the Israelis say I don't know much about the FAL except an M1A is a better battle rifle
I have an Imbel FAL, and have a post going in this sub forum with a pic of my groups @ 100 yards being fired from a pinic bench with just the table and my shoulder support. My friend has a new M1A, I was shooting as good if not better groups then him and he was at a bench rest with sandbags.

My other friend has a stripped down "accurized" M1A with a Nightforce Scope on it and I can hit steel targets down range @580 yards all day with it. I won't even put a scope on my FAL.

I agree that the M1A is more accurate then a FAL with respect to MOA, but I don't necessarilly agree that it is a better battle rifle, the FAL has been one of the most widely used Battle Rifles in 80 countries.

It has an adjustable gas tube for varying environments and ammo type. Once the operator learns the gas tube system, they eliminate the issue.

Go over to FAL files forum and you will get better information regarding the FAL then on this board.

Yes DSA sells FALs and parts, so does CGW, and possibly PRK (Fresno).


Quote:
Originally Posted by BHPFan View Post
FAL - I personally prefer forged receiver over cast. Since it's hard to get a real "FN", then let's talk about other brands available:

d) Imbel receiver - My favorite as they are really forged, which is what I like in a heavy caliber plus they are real "FN" as they are licensed by FN. I currently own an Israeli Heavy Barrel built on one.
I have a IMBEL FAL, love it. Here was my shot group from yesterday seated on a picnic bench on the range just using the bottom of the mag and my shoulder for support. German surplus ammo and I have the shortest barrel configuration.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2011, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinobi'sZ View Post
I have an Imbel FAL, and have a post going in this sub forum with a pic of my groups @ 100 yards being fired from a pinic bench with just the table and my shoulder support. My friend has a new M1A, I was shooting as good if not better groups then him and he was at a bench rest with sandbags.

My other friend has a stripped down "accurized" M1A with a Nightforce Scope on it and I can hit steel targets down range @580 yards all day with it. I won't even put a scope on my FAL.

I agree that the M1A is more accurate then a FAL with respect to MOA, but I don't necessarilly agree that it is a better battle rifle, the FAL has been one of the most widely used Battle Rifles in 80 countries.

It has an adjustable gas tube for varying environments and ammo type. Once the operator learns the gas tube system, they eliminate the issue.

Go over to FAL files forum and you will get better information regarding the FAL then on this board.

Yes DSA sells FALs and parts, so does CGW, and possibly PRK (Fresno).
Compare a rack grade FAL to a rack grade M1A and there will be no real difference in downrange accuracy. Comparing a highly accurized M1A with custom work on the action, high quality barrel and a quality bedded stock to a parts kit FAL is an apples to oranges debate (similar to comparing brand new accurized AR15s to rebuilt Century WASR AKs). With enough money and interest, the FAL can at least be made to be considerably more accurate than the average shooter. Shooting 1" groups at 600 yards comes at a cost and not one I'm currently interested in spending. 2-4" groups @ 100 yards is more than adequate for a hunting rifle. Pinpoint accuracy I can only achieve from a prone position, or on a rest/sandbags doesn't interest me much at all.

For $38.00 or so you can have a trigger job done on the FAL to drop the 8-9 lb pull (with the usual slop of a military trigger) down to the fine crisp triggers you find on target rifles. Mixing and matching bolts and bolt carriers until you find one with the least play, having the tools/knowledge or a smith to set tight headspacing and good fit between lower and upper receiver will get you most of the rest of the way, as I understand it from some of the FAL builders anyway. FAL is a tough rifle, reliable and accurate enough for all practical purposes and right now, going for a whole lot less than they used to. I prefer the parts kit route with parts from the StG58 and G1 as my starting point due to both cost and quality - no new barrels from DSA (Badger is the OEM) appear to be as good as the NOS barrels from the lightly used surplus FAL rifles. DSA still makes what appears to be the best receivers stateside (for US parts count and customer service), but Imbel makes a good receiver if you have your parts count worked out using more US parts elsewhere.

-R
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2011, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen View Post
2-4" groups @ 100 yards is more than adequate for a hunting rifle. Pinpoint accuracy I can only achieve from a prone position, or on a rest/sandbags doesn't interest me much at all.
I normally only comment if I owned it or spent time operating, since you don't own a FAL but identify some key things that I find of value too from the FAL platform, you might be interested in my pic attachment from yesterday while adjusting the iron sites on my IMBEL (upper) FAL without using a bench with sandbags. 10 rounds fired while holding at 6 O'clock, and 10 rounds fired holding Naval Zero, the rear site is set at 200 meters. so at 100 they are supposed to be higher. As you can see the first 20 rounds were all to the left, I taped them up, re-adjusted the rear sight a bit, and didn't touch it again after the round pic'd. German surplus ammo used for this as well...nothing special..except the low price!

I do have interest in pinpoint accuracy as well, but I get that from my Rem 700P, for which I shot the center out of a .25 size target yesterday @100 yards. Then after 4 more rounds there was just one hole.

But I didn't buy my FAL to get MOA as much as MOE groups. The design is such that the iron sites are zero'd at 200 meters with the idea to hit within center body mass 18" @ 200 meters. No reason to put a scope on it.

But the M1A is a better DMR, and there was a FAL submitted for the Army's SASS trial and it was beaten by the Knight's Arnament .308. If I was still in the military and deployed I would like to use a SCAR H or M14 for duty. I have AR 15s and they are great, but I like having something that will shoot through doors and such if caught under fire. I have interest in building an AR .308 as well in the near future. Aeroprecision makes a nice .308 lower.
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:27 AM
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I hav an FAL from Entreprise and it shoots well but agree go with DS Arms. I had problems with the entreprise at first and i do hav to clean and keep it well lubed. Also mags are a pain to get for it and most the time poor quailty.
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:33 AM
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DSA makes a great FAL, but expect to pay like 1500 for one. Eh, for that money I'd rather get an M1A Loaded, far superior sights and 1-2MOA accuracy.
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Old 04-14-2011, 6:23 AM
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Go for it. I too have an Entreprise Arms' STG58. No problems with it so far, but I've shot less than 200 rounds through it
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Old 04-21-2011, 5:22 PM
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Go for it. I too have an Entreprise Arms' STG58. No problems with it so far, but I've shot less than 200 rounds through it

Rareair,

I'd be happy to break that rifle in for you with a few hundred more. I want to test some muzzle brakes and OTM ammo I just bought in preparation for my own build to be completed.

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Old 04-14-2011, 7:24 AM
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I have wanted one and was considering DSA...However, there are a few other guns ahead of it on the list. It is one of the last guns I get that is for sure...Then back to motorcycles. I have shot a DSA FAL up in WA that belonged to friend up in WA. Awesome rifle. He never had issues with it and at 100 yrds it was accurate as I could make it.

Never handled an enterprise one...However on member said it right. If he is going to be paying $$$ for it he is not slugging that thing through dirt or such. On that note though, I have taken my PSL through the sticks of Oregon and it had no issue with dampness.
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Old 04-14-2011, 8:31 AM
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I also have a FAL from Entreprise. Had some issues with it at first with the gas adjustment, but fires very well now.
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Old 04-14-2011, 8:40 AM
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I say go for it! I had a DSArms FAL before I knew about building AR's and it is a really nice shooting rifle. I don't shoot it as much only because of the price of ammo.

Otherwise, a lot of people have AR's, not many people here show up to the range with a FAL. Whenever I pull mine out, people are all WHAT'S THAT!?? It has that coolness factor. When I let other people shoot it, I always get that "HOLY $H17" look. It is really fun to shoot.
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Old 04-14-2011, 7:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbobbyt View Post
. I don't shoot it as much only because of the price of ammo.

Otherwise, a lot of people have AR's, not many people here show up to the range with a FAL. Whenever I pull mine out, people are all WHAT'S THAT!?? It has that coolness factor. When I let other people shoot it, I always get that "HOLY $H17" look. It is really fun to shoot.
I 100% agree on this since I can't shoot steel case ammo or it will jam a lot I have to buy the good stuff and its expensive. And yes when I pull it out at the range people notice it and gets a lot of thumbs up...
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Old 04-14-2011, 7:47 PM
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I would like to order a CA legal DSA FN/FAL, but is there any other configuration other than the 'top loading' model?

Also who sells FN metric 20 round magazine rebuilt kits, for my SAR-4800, that will ship to CA.

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Old 04-14-2011, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acaligunner View Post
I would like to order a CA legal DSA FN/FAL, but is there any other configuration other than the 'top loading' model?

Also who sells FN metric 20 round magazine rebuilt kits, for my SAR-4800, that will ship to CA.

acaligunner
I had the rifle sent to Rich at CGW, who worked on the stock trigger (one of those things that are not that good on a FAL) and installed a set screw and then sent it on to my FFL. I forgot what he charged but it was not much and the trigger is a lot better than stock.

P.S. I haven't done it but I've read here that it is not that difficult to remove the DSA mag weld and then add your own device.
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Old 04-14-2011, 8:59 PM
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DSA Tactical Carbine


Entreprise FAL standard model

Should you FAL? only if you already have one of these!

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Old 04-14-2011, 3:10 PM
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Get a Imbel receiver on Gunbroker around 400 and get the parts kit of gunbroker too the seller is parts and more .
I have build 2 one off a DSA receiver with a Imbel parts kit and the other Imbel receiver on a STG 58 kit.. The FaL's are the best 2 rifles ever made..

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Old 04-14-2011, 5:13 PM
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Definately Dsarms. Mine is built off an enterprise reciever and love it. Either one is good but dsa has me wanting to build another.
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Old 04-14-2011, 5:45 PM
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The real question is how do you like yours?
My DS arms pig rifle with FSC FAL muzzle brake, DS arms railed top cover, P.E.P.R. scope mount with a 3-9x50 redfield scope.


Saw pistol grip and X series buttstock should be here tomorrow
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Old 04-14-2011, 5:47 PM
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I wouldn't trade my FAL for anything else

Last edited by Ls1FALimpala; 04-16-2011 at 9:42 AM..
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Old 04-14-2011, 6:15 PM
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FAL!
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  #30  
Old 04-14-2011, 6:45 PM
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Love mine... I'm just not as good with it as I should be... I got an STG58 kit built on DSArms receiver.
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Old 04-14-2011, 6:46 PM
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DS Arms is the way to go these days...
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Old 04-14-2011, 6:56 PM
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I have a DSA para (which I would take over an M1A anyday). Great quality, but not cheap in price. Had one built by Rich at CGW with an Austrian kit on an Imbel, Rich builds well and was very reasonable (don't know about now). Also had a couple of Entreprise builds, cosmetically they were not on par with Rich or DSA, but one shot very well and I am sorry I sold it.
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Old 04-15-2011, 9:03 PM
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DS Arms is the way to go these days...
+1

I love my DSA all the way...
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:21 PM
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I also heard good things of Coonan receivers (www.coonaninc.com). Although, I do have an Entreprise and like it. Entreprise is local to me so going there in person is a plus.
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  #35  
Old 04-15-2011, 6:19 PM
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DisgruntledReaper DisgruntledReaper is offline
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My go to gun is one of my FAL's, they have never jammed on me, feed anything within OAL specs,dont care about brass/steel cases, laquered bullets,country of origin,etc.....

Easier to replace parts if needed, mags cheaper ,can put a folder on it, ....better than a M1A in MY opinion.....but yea maybe better sights but mags more money,parts are not as easily replaced(like I have ever seen a FAL part aside from a spring actually worn out) and they dont need anywhere the apparent amount of cleaning a M1a needs....

To each his own.......
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  #36  
Old 04-15-2011, 6:21 PM
oaklander oaklander is offline
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They are also the most aesthetically pleasing and elegant battle rifle, ever. OK - now over to FALfiles to look at some FAL porn.

Dang it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledReaper View Post
My go to gun is one of my FAL's, they have never jammed on me, feed anything within OAL specs,dont care about brass/steel cases, laquered bullets,country of origin,etc.....

Easier to replace parts if needed, mags cheaper ,can put a folder on it, ....better than a M1A in MY opinion.....but yea maybe better sights but mags more money,parts are not as easily replaced(like I have ever seen a FAL part aside from a spring actually worn out) and they dont need anywhere the apparent amount of cleaning a M1a needs....

To each his own.......
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  #37  
Old 04-15-2011, 6:24 PM
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DisgruntledReaper DisgruntledReaper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklander View Post
They are also the most aesthetically pleasing and elegant battle rifle, ever. OK - now over to FALfiles to look at some FAL porn.

Dang it!
Get-er done Oaky! I think I saw a couple on the MP last night!!!
Wish I did not have to sell 4 of mine in the last year.......sucks bigtime!!
I still have an Indian 1A kit to build at least....just need money for the receiver...and a good receiver at a good price....sigh...need another build up done...
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  #38  
Old 04-15-2011, 6:27 PM
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The FAL is light years ahead of your M1A/Garand types as far as takedown
and maintenace! Looks a hell of lot better,also.Pete

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  #39  
Old 04-15-2011, 6:40 PM
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Here's my Entreprise Arms STG58 Carbine

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  #40  
Old 04-17-2011, 5:16 PM
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[QUOTE=rareair;6210749]Here's my Entreprise Arms STG58 Carbine


That looks nice. How much does it weight?

It also seemed like most of the FAL rifles have pencil type barrels, is there an AR 308 with similar lightweight barrels? and which is cheaper to build?
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