View Single Post
Old 12-06-2012, 8:37 AM
MP301's Avatar
MP301 MP301 is offline
Veteran Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Now in Las Vegas NV
Posts: 4,181
iTrader: 49 / 100%

Originally Posted by IVC View Post
You always have to do as they say, even if it appears unlawful. However, anything that was obtained or discovered through an unlawful order will not be admissible in court. Any unlawful action also opens up agency for a lawsuit.

The rule of thumb is that if an LEO has a PC/RS to do something, he will never ask for permission and just issue an order.If they have to ask, they are actively seeking for consent and you have the right not to give it. The primary way to enforce your right is only to withhold this consent or communication altogether, never not to follow direct orders.
Very very Bad and dangerous information you posted.

LE will almost always ask for permission first whether they have PC or not. This is because the majority of people give permission for a search - even when they are doing something illegal (just watch any number of cop shows to see this in action).

So, since many people give permission, they try that route first. That way, they don't have to worry about artculating PC in court if its challenged (especially since it can be a stretch in some cases). You can't challenge giving permission if you freely choose to give it.

So, after you say no, and they think they can articulate PC if they find something, they will then search anyway.

They may still even search on just a hunch, with the idea that if they find an contraband (stolen gun, drugs, etc.), at the very least they ruined your day and got the illegal stuff off the street even if they lost the PC challenge later in court.

Or, they may decide they don't need another complaint in their jacket and end the fishing expedition right after it becomes apparent that you won't budge on giving permission.

Things they will consider in deciding how far they will go -


If there is a bunch of crap going on, like responding to a cal
, you look like you just killed your parents, etc., (and it's not just a general fishing expedition)....they are more likely to search anyway.

Who they are dealing with.

If they run you in their database and you have a laundry list of past legal issues, you may have a problem. If you have prior negative contacts with LE like being a dickhead for little or no reason(and they know about it from notes in their database or from prior personal contact), you may have a problem.

And finally, if your a dickhead or disrespectful, etc., during the current contact, you may have a problem.

As has been said before, if you choose to exercise your rights to the fullest, that is your choice, and there is nothing wrong with that. But antagonizing the "offending" officer(s) by being a jerk has absolutely zero benefit for you whatsoever.

LEOs are just as human as you are. They also have limited immunity. So even though at might make you feel better being a *** because you can, odds are it will be much more painful for you in some form then it is for him/ it at that time or in the future.

Food for thought...

Last edited by MP301; 12-06-2012 at 8:42 AM..
Reply With Quote