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Old 12-18-2012, 11:15 AM
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va_dinger va_dinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
This is an excellent analogy for the most part, but I think it actually serves to make my point. The "Tier One" trainers suggested are undeniably SMEs in various kinds of team tactics and military techniques. If that's what you want to learn or experience, then you have found your instructors. Who could argue otherwise?

But it's an open question as to which of them are SMEs for the types of self-defense situations most likely to be encountered by civilians, lacking team support or combat load-outs. Certainly that's not a pejorative question or observation, or is it?

It's kind of drag-racing vs. F1 vs. NASCAR, isn't it? It doesn't make sense to say that someone who is a respected NASCAR figure can't teach NASCAR, because they never won a drag race.

Like it or not, Pincus does indeed have the respect of many important and established authorities in the self-defense training field. If you consider the opinions of people like Mike Seeklander, Mas Ayoob, Claude Werner, etc. to be "worthless", then I leave you to your rarefied sensibilities. What it means in any specific case is open to interpretation.

I don't consider myself to be a "defender" of Rob Pincus.I absolutely disagree with some of what he teaches. That's a subject for conversation, research and further study. Rational people don't start feuds over such things. In that respect, you have to admire the professional bearing of someone like LAV concerning these kinds of questions. Nobody is the "all seeing, all knowing" guru on these matters ... not even guys with Tier One military experience.

I take issue with baseless bashing and unnecessary drama, however.
First of all your comments are either woefully ignorant or you are purposefully trying trivialize the training, skills, and capabilities of true Special Operations personnel. I’ve noticed many times that guys who would like to discount or trivialize SO experience often reference only “Team Tactics” & “Military Support”. Same reason they use passive-aggressive quotes “ “ around the word “Tier 1”. They are trying to infer that all they did is dress in black and fast rope out of helicopters. Unfortunately for them and our nation’s enemies this is absolutely false. They receive extensive training & operational experience in extremely hostile environment covert/concealed carry, diplomatic security, low vis (Blending in) operations, etc, etc, etc. They regularly operate in extremely small groups or even alone. Help (QRF) might be hours away or even days away.

You don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to realize these skills correlate directly to civilian training classes; covert/concealed carry = civilian concealed carry, diplomatic security = personal defense/defense of family, Low Vis Operations = civilian concealed carry, CQB = Home Defense, etc, etc.

Not to forget their adherence to very high accuracy standards in classes verses “Fighting” = “Good Enough” accuracy. If you are forced to defend your home with your family in the next room or forced to defend yourself in a crowded mall do you want to have been trained by one of the world’s finest handgun shooters or a guy who shoots into a berm to avoid showing you he has boringly average weapon skills?

Hint #1: The topic of this thread isn’t about a standard how to shoot Handgun or Carbine class. It’s about “Counter-Ambush”. A rather specialized topic if you ask me.

Hint #2: I only got involved because I noticed the names being thrown around are friends & business associates of mine. Rest assured they will not be used to sell somebody else’s classes.

Hint #3: My statements were spot on. Trust me.

I am done with this conversation.
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Paul A. Hotaling
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Last edited by va_dinger; 12-19-2012 at 11:43 AM..
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