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Old 11-04-2012, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by movie zombie View Post
and its not just re open carry: i can legally shoot on our property; but i do not. why? well, its this same "conceal" ownership idea. do i really want the neighborhood and/or their guests knowing what i have or do not have? am i better off not advertising the fact that i have guns? am i avoiding a possible break in to get my guns? will i be better able to defend myself if the bad guy doesn't know what he's facing if there is a break in?

i would translate to this as if OC, am i now a target by someone who wants to prove themselves to others? or do i want the element of surprise on my side?

me? i want the element of surprise....but that is me.
Starting: In this thread we are discussing LOADED OPEN CARRY. I just wanted to make that point. There is a large body of hate towards UOC in California.

To be fair, surprise is overrated. In a mugging or similar situation surprise values little as you are already on the defensive and your opponent has the initiative. In these cases the "element of surprise" belongs entirely to your opponent, at the point you react open and concealed are "too late" to matter greatly.

"They will just shoot you if they see your gun and take it". While some just might do that, the number who would is exceptionally rare. Most criminals don't "just shoot someone". It takes a fairly large leap to go from mugger to murderer in a non-resisting person. In a bank robbery the same holds. Else wise they would just massacre everyone in the bank, take the money and be on their merry.

Even in some of the most violent crime, such as home invasion, actual murder during the invasion is even more rare than the violent home invasion itself, though assault and rape are common. That next level takes a certain kind of sociopathy.

Concealed Carry works off of the concept of Herd Immunity, not surprise. A concealed weapon when you don't have the initiative is as useless as an openly carried one. The idea only works as a deterrent if LTCs are common issue. Which in our state is not the case. What Concealed Carry does provide is a "socially acceptable" form of being armed. Since the early days of our nation even, city culture dictated that being openly armed was "lower class" and "thuggish". Which makes sense when you understand where that cultural concept grew from and the surrounding prejudices and social situations of early industrialization. Which is also the ground floor of civil disarmament. Since I confluence the two in my own opinion that biases me against CC as any kind of "idealized carry", it does make sense in the proper environments and cultures. Both I and my wife find it uncomfortable and to whit a "dishonest behavior forced by a cowardly culture". Two armed parties meeting is always interesting, regardless of era, so it is understandable that there might be cultural pressures towards keeping parties disarmed. Even friendly parties when meeting and armed pass through a moment of challenge.

The advantages of open carry are the ability to more easily access your weapon, a large weapon which is more accurate and higher capacity, and often higher caliber. Comfort ranks highest, carry how you are comfortable, there are more options for open than concealed. Culturally open carry is preferred by those who live in low density areas that often lack the open hostility of stacked humanity and masses of "nameless faces". Culturally suspicious of any "furtive" or hidden behaviors.

I prefer having BOTH options available so as to be able to carry not just how I like but how the situation allows. Open Carry also means that culturally you are in an area that does not "faint at the sight of a firearm". Which is a positive in my book. Concealed smacks of "out of sight out of mind" which is avoidance of the cultural conflict between the armed and the cowardly.

In any case though, a gun will not save you if someone wants you dead and you don't see it coming. Period. Time tested and proven in training. The greatest weapon we carry is our brain and awareness, even then it is no assurance that, as happened locally, someone gets it in their crazy head to setup a sniper position by a rural stop sign and pops someone at random in the head. Not really much you can do about that. Yes that really happened, we got the guy though. If you are in the city press and hustle and someone wants you dead, carry form is irrelevant. By dead, we don't mean just gun, a shank will do in a packed in crowd. In Akibara, Japan, one nutter with a simple knife had a ball due to the high density of people.

My support of open carry and my wifes support for it is based on the idea that a culture that allows open carry has accepted an armed populace while one that forces concealed only is indicative of the need for more change in the existing culture as weapons are still culturally "unacceptable".
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