Originally Posted by glbtrottr
Goober, and all -
I've been out of touch for 24-36 hours. Yup, I work. Please be patient - I respond and update in bulk, as does the banana.
The guys at Ares are a bunch of good Marines trying to get their business to grow and change. Good for them.
We all have money tied up on this group buy, and I personally am invested in ensuring this group buy and product is successful - why? I'm an amateur enthusiast. Heck, I'm shopping around for a mill...have you seen the rest of 80%'ers from Sig, to 1911, AR's and the like? That's creepy - a mill. Moreover, I've been 100 percent transparent on everything communicated my way by Ares and communicating your desires.
I am just a customer as you all, and have just as much desire for these lads to get some of you what you need.
Now - on the BATF approval: I've left a message for Dimitri, who according to Aaron is at school this minute...as is Jeremy. Their reputation is pretty spot on, and I have no reason to doubt that they will deliver. They've been taken to task in the past on more than a few items, and have come out golden. This isn't Botach or Gunworld we're dealing with - they're Marines with integrity.
On pictures, I spoke with Dimitri and he gave me some good reasons as to why they had not released pictures or delayed so far - and it was not a lack of existence of the frame.
Ares is taking pictures on June 1 both per Aaron and per Dimitri, along with a videotape both building the 80% to a firearm, which they will be releasing to their mailing list of several thousand users. I accepted that answer, but I understand if some of you will not - let's keep things in perspective on a group buy that has been going on about a week, with an intended delivery of 3-4.5 months or so. Ares asked for a little bit of time on Wednesday, a week or two, and I said OK. If that's not fast enough, I totally understand - but as I said in my mail and at the beginning of the thread...instant gratification isn't the name of this thread....
Dimitri also committed to have the frame reviewed for tolerances by some of the people that we brought onboard - and if we can be patient as that happens, that would be great. That results in infinitely better product, either at my expense or based on the kindness of those who cut up 1911's for a living every day - so patience will buy us a far better quality product.
The person holding the money in this conversation is me, not Ares, and Goober, if you want me to paypal you a refund as you paid via paypal, I'll readily do so. I'd rather not, as I think it sends the wrong message to the group buy participants and all those of us who committed to the buy - that, and you're a knowledgeable guy who I'm sure can bring a ton to the group during these builds. Consider sticking it out for a few more days.
I also asked for the CAD dimensions and tolerances, as I was in the middle of trying to get us all some improved pricing on things desired.
I'll let you all know what I hear from Ares as soon as I hear back, and hopefully all of you will continue growing this group buy - it will certainly help us negotiate better discounts in the end.
Thanks, globtrottr, for your thorough response.
Communication is key in these deals.
I fully realize that you and The Banana have RealLives™ and that a few days with no response should not be cause for alarm.
I fully understand the timeline involved. I'm not expecting product any earlier than projected, and will be fine if it takes even longer, within reason. But given that we are signing up for the long haul, I don't think its unreasonable for folks to want to see what they are signing up for. I jumped on this buy, gladly, and paid up front fully aware of the fact that my money will be tied up for several months. That's how much I want this to happen.
My ratcheting of the urgency on the issue of pictures was motivated by the repeated requests of several folks over the course of the week, and the lack of anything but some platitudes to the effect of "we know you want to see the product, but we must get tolerances exact before taking a picture".
With all due respect to savs2k (sincerely), I don't subscribe to the "part must be exactly perfect before you show a picture of it" idea. A prototype is just that. State as much, and a small burr or machining mark here or there is forgiven. But pictures of actual metal (and poly) parts mean a lot more than CAD renderings.
Regarding the BATFE approval, prior to seeing the actual letter, a simple statement from Ares that they have the letter in hand would be nice. I don't believe it's even been brought up prior to my mentioning it. Not doubting anyone's word in the least; but there is a difference between left unsaid and a statement, I think we can all agree on that.
Finally, I don't doubt the integrity of you or the folks at Ares, but thank you for the background info and character references. I don't want a refund
or to pull out of the GB. I want to see this happen hugely and successfully and repeatedly. I'm not grousing or trying to dissuade anyone from participating.
So thanks for the comms, they mean a lot. I'll sit tight and stop my clamoring for pix. I'm optimistic that Ares will show real images of the cool product we all want to buy very soon. Apologies for hounding you, and if it seemed like I was crapping on the buy, I assure you that was not my intent.
And thank you for the time and effort you're putting into this (and dealing w/ grumpy ol' curmudgeons like me
)... I know what running one of these GBs is like... And fully appreciate your efforts, and willingness to take on the risks involved. Keep up the good work!