View Single Post
  #64  
Old 11-08-2009, 8:30 AM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,863
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mag Magnet View Post
We are trying to fix the concerns stated above. I do NOT want people
to think they is a way around CA's BS. It would be helpful if anyone can offer positive suggestions to help negate issues we may have.
Then you need to IMMEDIATELY include statements like this:
"This device is only legal for use in CA on
1. rimfire off-list ARs;
2. registered assault weapons;
3. configurations not requiring nondetachable magazines
This device should NEVER be used (even for a fraction of a second) to remove any nondetachable
magazine affixed to an AR by a
"Bullet Button"-type device.

This device is NOT an allowed "tool" encompassed in the CA regulatory definition of "detachable
magazine"
per 11 CCR 5469(a)."
Quote:
I do think there is a place for our product, but there is limitations on it's usage, just like a whole lot of CA type products.
Quote:
What do you want? A handout to read before purchase?
That's a start along with a full recouching of sales/pitch to indicate its ultra-specific, narrow range of usefulness.

I think it's safe to say that if your product were marketed honestly and with the clear restrictions outlined pre-sale above, I don't think you will get enough sales to pay for booth fees at gunshows.

This is NOT a wide-application product like the BulletButton. It does NOT make the BulletButton "better" for 95% (likely more) of the BulletButton's users.

The use of a featureless AR in the demo/sales pitch is, IHMO, well-nigh fraudulent.

Your sales guy at the Cow Palace needs to be canned or caned. From what I've heard of other booths at other shows there likely are similar situations at shows eleswhere.

PEOPLE WILL GO TO JAIL IF THEY LISTEN TO THIS IDIOT AT THE COW PALACE, OR TRY TO INFER ANYTHING FROM HIS STATEMENTS.


Quote:
I seem to recall a long time ago when an AR-type receiver was
considered by many to be illegal.
What "by many" means is irrelevant. This is not a "voting" or "belief" situation. What I and others above write about your product is "From The Horse's Mouth".

We understood the law, the court decisions and regulations. We walked a very narrow line and in fact avoided certain situations initially even though they were likely legal until we got REAL GUN LAWYERS' information.


Quote:
guys do stuff (guns & stuff to guns) that is considered ok by some, not ok by others
Fine, that's on them. At least information exists so they can not screw up if they don't want to. And products are usu sold to them with caveats.

Your product as sold, demonstrated, couched, implied, etc. yesterday and likely elsewhere was certainly NOT properly described.

The honest nonconfusing approach is with my blurb above, and: "...this product is a special application product useful for specific limited circumstances".

Quote:
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
We're trying to make sure of that.

Quote:
If you are uncomfortable with an OLL rifle, buy a Ruger or Kel-Tec.
Properly-configured OLL rifles are of unquestioned legality. Your product, used in the way your representatives are selling it, is illegal for 95+% of the trade in OLLs.

I also think you've been called out here and are merely responding with "damage mitigation" - and if this thread did not exist your practices would not change.

Quote:
We are not trying to scam anybody or mislead "noobs" into buying something that they will use incorrectly.
Your sales pitch and booth staffer I and many others saw indeed was. Reports of your booth's activities at other shows has already reached us.

Quote:
OLL rules and regs can be very convoluted to the uneducated. We also sold a few bullet buttons to guys to switch their "unregistered assault weapons" into a CA compliant config.
Unreg'd AWs, if listed/banned by name, are not turned into non-AWs thru changes to configured features suites.

One of the few legit uses for your product is on *registered AWs* -- using the BB to allow unrestricted transportation of a reg'd AW as a non-AW, and using your device to overcome the BB to allow manually detachable magazines.

But as a vendor you are held to a higher standard, esp when possibly criminal outcomes are likely when used with the most common legal application of the BB.

Now we have to go clean up the misinformation that has moved from you guys thru your vendors.
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

Last edited by bwiese; 11-08-2009 at 10:33 AM..