Thread: Ctr-02
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Old 11-17-2005, 4:50 PM
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artherd artherd is offline
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Hi Bill, thanks for the kind words, coming from you I take as quite a compliment. Forgive me for not spilling the beans untill it was all said and done, but I wanted to make sure I was not blowing smoke up anyone's skirt.
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Originally Posted by bwiese
God DAMN! Good going Ben/Artherd, good letter...
This is the first real operational acknowledgement from DOJ/AG office that you legally acquire a non-Harrott-listed AR receiver. By extension this would apply to non-Harrott-listed AK receivers as well.
The importance of this goes quite beyond trying to make some kinda gripless AR.
You bet it does!
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"Near future"? This wording suggests possibly there's an upcoming administrative attempt to update the Harrott-inspired DOJ Roster of AR15 and AK Series Weapons. But these could also just be cautionary CYA weasel words too - or there could be some legislative stuff in committee we haven't heard of (but I doubt this latter case).
I've got a FEELING this was fluf and bluf language. Ie put in to make the FFLs nervous. I went through SEVEN FFLs before I found one willing to take both the time to review the legal aspect, and to finally do the transfer.

Here's why I think they were bluffing: One of the FFLs was all set, then they called the DOJ just to verify. The agent who answered the phone interrupted my FFL, saying "I KNOW OF THE LETTER! Thing is, once we see it DROS'd, we're going to ban it immediately*, and then come right after you for posession of an AW in inventory withought an AW permit!"

*= Note that this is not possible for two reasons
1) CPC 12276.5 spells out exactly how the DOJ may 'ban' a series AW. They may issue only a temporary suspension of the sale/transfer, and then within 30 days must hold a Supior Court hearing in a populace county where the TRIAL COURT determines AW status. During that 30 day period the FFL would be able to send the weapon back out of state even if they lacked a CA AW permit.

2) Make/Model information is not included in DROS for longguns at all, so they will never know what's happening (unless they flagged my name and looked at my next purchase. Just to fsck with them I bought a shotgun
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There is a dim-bright side to all of this, however:

....if AR/AK receivers that aren't declared as named/Type II AWs now (like the CTR02, a couple of other off-brand AR receivers, and some new US-made AK-style stamped receivers) get added to the list for 'functional identicality', these will become full-fledged CA AWs upon that declaration. While registration will be required after 90? days, once it's declared as an AW you can add evil features galore (detachable magwell w/pistol grip, flash hider, folder stock, etc. etc.)

I do not believe that any retroactive 'ban' would fall in place kinda like the early '90s SKS fiasco: that is, a situation where a receiver CTR02 is allowed now, but then added to DOJ Roster list - but then also not allowed to be registered as AW. I believe once a gun/receiver is added to the list and promulgated as an AW, that triggers a registration period to come into compliance (register it, surrender it, move it/sell it out of state, etc.)
Bill, I *THINK* historically speaking you'd be correct here in that we would open up another 90day reg period. I also *think* this *may be* WHY the DOJ has not yet updated their list at all since the last registration interval. Do you have anything we can sink our teeth into that would require a new 90day registration period for new AWs (and maybe for ALL AWs?)[/quote]
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I think a 'substantially different' receiver - like the FAB10 - will not be banned or declared as an AW.
Another recent event, the G&B Sales "Bushmaster XM-15" (a NAMED! reciver) with welded mag-wel being declared a legal longgun seems to support the idea that the FAB-10 will fall outside whatever else happens here.
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The Vulcan receiver is in more questionable territory, but of course if Vulcan gets 'declared' as an AW, you can rip out the affixed mag

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I will have to read more deeply on how items are declared AWs, and procedures for adding to Harrott list.
Check CPC 12276.5 for starts. Unfortunately a grace period and new registration is not mentioned.
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