Originally Posted by Orkan
I didn't miss what he was saying at all. I simply disagree.
Instructing new shooters on the finer points of precision rifle is part of what I do for a living. I know for a fact that I can make a shooter faster, more accurate, and more consistent by putting a better optic on their rifle, if they are currently using a lesser optic.
I have proven it with many people, on their rifles, on many occasions.
If you take my rifle and remove the 5-25, and put a fixed 4x on there... you've just handicapped me by diminishing my effective performance envelope. Every feature counts for something. So even if I went from my Premier 5-25 to a different 5-25 that didn't have exposed turrets, I'd still be handicapped.
Would you have me believe that the same shooter using a $200 NC Star 5-25 with equal features of a $3500 Premier 5-25 is going to perform to the same level with both optics? It's not just the features, but the quality in which they are implemented.
So to claim that the optic has no bearing on a marksman's proficiency is what I disagree with.
I am more capable with certain optics than I am others. This is a function of how well they work, what their magnification range is, and what they allow me to do. Were this not the case, the market for high end optics would not exist in the civilian or military worlds.
See, the great thing about public forums is we can tell it how it is. I'm glad you're happy to be a premier dealer and you're probably super excited how bad a** they look and feel. Trust me, i LOVED my Premier. I don't own it any more because i couldn't trust it. I can say that because I'm also not trying to sell them. When i sent it back for repairs it still wouldn't track when i received it back. The turret locks were dragging after the repair too. I would have to look through the scope when the cams were unlocked and i was spinning the knob to make sure the reticle didn't move as i was resetting it to zero. There's plenty of bad info out there about Premier. I know you won't cop to it since you're trying to make sales but the info is out there for others to read.
Comparing 4x optics to 25x optics is just silly. You're almost implying that we're saying a shooter with open sights can just as easily shoot .25" groups as a shooter with a 25x scope with a thin reticle such as the Premier. My point is that when you start comparing Vortex scopes (much less money) with great features, SWFA (a little low on the features but still durable), Nightforce, Bushnell, all the way up to S&B it's not going to make a difference at all. Your race car comparison about the newbie in the race car is invalid because at some point the wheels are gonna fall off anyway from inexperience. I can give a guy 2 Rifles...one with a Premier and the other with a Bushnell for 1/3 the price and you're telling me he's going to make more shots with a Premier simply because he's using a more expensive (which obviously means better) riflescope? The only part of that argument i will somewhat side with is glass. Premier has exceptional glass. It's very nice for spotting holes in paper at longer distances and walking your shots in. The lesser glass quality scopes don't share that advantage.
The whole point of the post was that a rookie shooter can start with a Bushnell (any of the tactical line) and won't out grow it for a VERY long time. Hell, myself as well as a bunch of the guys i was with on Team GAP were all shooting Bushnells at a national level match 2 weeks ago. Guys shooting S&Bs, Premiers, and everything else. I didn't once feel disadvantaged by using a $1000 scope. Now, i prefer my NFs but this rifle just happened to have the DMR on it so i left it on for the match. It did GREAT!! The best part was i didn't have to worry about any problems with is as i have in the past competing with Premiers and S&Bs and it cost a fraction of the price.
Once again we have proven the point that a scope doesn't make someone a better shooter.
Stop comparing 4x scopes to 25x scopes or scopes that don't hold zero or track.
A scope that doesn't track or hold zero is a failure of a scope. If you gave me a $200 NCstar that held zero and tracks repeatably with FFP and enough magnifcation i could shoot anything i do with my NFs or Bushnells. The chances of getting a NCstar that did work would probably be slim to none but my point still stands.