Originally Posted by Shenaniguns
There is no right or wrong grip angle, some prefer Glock like and some prefer Sig/H&K like (BTW, the M&P is about in the middle). You shooting horrible with a Glock is 100% a problem with you. The only truly ignorant person in this thread is you. I know that many of the other Glock aficionados here have or do own most of the guns discussed so far.
And since you live in a bubble, here's an example of a teenage girl that has no problem with the blocky grip or its angle:
Tori Nonaka is one of two members of Team GLOCK and a junior shooting champion. She hails from Woodbridge, Virginia, where she began shooting at age 3. At age 12, Tori attended the US Shooting Academy, which sparked her interest in becoming a professional shooter which led her to begin shooting competitively. On March 2, 2011, GLOCK, Inc announced that 15 year old Tori would be a member of Team GLOCK Shooting Squad.
Tori has competed in various disciplines, including USPSA, SSCA, IPSC, IDPA, Bianchi & GSSF. In 2010, Tori earned the titles of USPSA National Juniors Champion in Limited 10 competition, the US Steel National Super Junior, and IDPA National Junior Champion. Already in 2011, Tori has taken home the titles of USPSA Area 6 Top Production Lady and High Junior, Pro AM High Junior and High A Class in the Limited Division.
In October 2011, Tori will be competing on the Ladies Standard Team at the IPSC World Shoot XVI in Rhodes, Greece, where she will be one of 44 shooters from the 11 squads representing the US.
Let's try and break down the absurd amount of ignorance in your post.
Point of ignorance #1: There is most definitely a right and wrong grip angle. The right grip angle is what works you as an individual. The wrong grip angle is one that doesn't work for a human hand. Between these two extremes is a continuum. The fact that Glock grip angles are significantly different from EVERYTHING else definitely puts it further on the wrong side of the continuum for most people.
Point of ignorance #2: Just because everyone who owns an Apple iPhone says it's God's gift to consumers doesn't make it true. Same goes for Glocks. Just because people who own a Glock say they love it doesn't mean it's practical or reasonable for most people.
Point of ignorance #3: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/few
Congratulations on being a dip****. There are approximately 20,000,000 teenage females in America. You found one which I believe still qualifies as "very few". You can find another 10,000 Tori's and my qualification of "very true" still would be a true statement.
Just because you were dumb enough to fall for Glock's marketing and now feel a need to justify your buyer's remorse doesn't make the rest of us ignorant for not liking Glocks based on actual facts.
Originally Posted by Sam
If you are switching between shooting an M&P one day, a Sig another day, a 1911 a third day and a Glock a fourth day, then you will have some issues shooting the Glock. Sure, I've got no argument with that. My belief is that I'm going to stick with one platform for my serious handgun work. If I throw a different handgun platform in the mix occasionally that's for pure enjoyment. Overall though, the vast majority of handgun shooting I do tends to be with one platform at a time. Due to this fact, adjusting for elevation has become second nature and I don't consciously notice I do it. I will also add that a Grip Force Adapter has to a large extent taken grip angle issues out of the platform for me.
I think the teenage girl comment was directed at the fact that since teenage girls can shoot Glocks so can grown men. My fiance is not a teenage girl, but she has no problem getting good hits at speed with a Glock. She's not an experienced shooter by any means. If ergos were as bad and as important as many claim, I'd imagine she wouldn't do as well with a Glock. I'll agree that this is a case study of one, but she shoots well with a Glock and has yet to complain about the blockiness of the frame.
I find it interesting that in the same post you allude to the fact a low bore axis is important and then claim bore axis height is of no consequence to the average shooter. Further you mention changing out spring weights to achieve more of an effect than low bore axis. Seems like the average shooter wouldn't even begin to mess around with spring weights. I'm surely not going to mess around with spring weights on a serious use gun anyway.
Now, I'm not saying the Glock is the end all be all of handguns, but the Glock's supposed shortcomings I think are really overblown.
You I can at least have a reasoned discussion with unlike the above poster who just sprouted misinformation and the generic Glock fanboy diatribe.
For me, since I'm no longer military and they have no say on what I can or cannot carry, firearms are like shoes. Some days I like wearing my Reebok Nano. Other days I like wearing my Vibram FiveFingers. Same with guns. Some days I feel like carrying my HK. Other days my 1911. And yet other days I'll gravitate towards my Sig. Therefore, I need something that has consistent grip angles or else that's added liability if I ever need to draw and quickly point shoot. We practice consistency in just about every aspect of marksmanship whether it's clearing misfeeds, drawing out of the holster, presenting to the target, or reloads. Why purposefully throw in an inconsistency like grip angle? I know that I can pick up most firearms irregardless of brand and it will operate for me in a consistent manner because most firearms share a very similar grip angle. But if you use and only depend on Glocks that's great for you. However I'd rather not depend on my instinctive skills only applying to ONE make.
Teenage girls can also menstruate and yet grown men can't. Teenage girls can create drama while most grown men can't (OK, this one was rather subjective). Teenage girls can get pregnant while most grown men can't. Whoever brought up the whole teenage girl argument obviously didn't think it through. What it boils down to though is comfort. As a grown *** man, it is my right to go choose a firearm that molds to the contours of my hand and works with my wrist. Glocks do NOT satisfy this in any way, shape, or form not just for me, but for a significant amount of people. Sure, I can shoot a Glock just fine, but then I might get used to it which takes us back to the paragraph above.
I personally could give a **** less about bore axis in relation to my hand. The original reviewer included bore axis like it was some heavily weighted aspect to consider when purchasing a firearm AND quoted the bore axis relationships inaccurately. My post only served to address the same issues that was originally brought up and fix the inaccuracies. My personal collection has weapons spanning all sorts of low to high bore axes.
Changing out springs for production handguns to tune felt recoil isn't nearly as complex as most people tend to believe. I'll grant you that if you were to fine tune the felt recoil for something like a custom 1911 or just get such fine adjustments out of your tuning to achieve perfect tuning efficiency than yes, it is beyond what is capable of average shooters. Nowadays, all I have to do is type into Google "What's the recommended recoil spring strength for ___" and I know exactly how I can improve felt recoil. Will it be perfect? Doubtful, but it will improve the felt recoil and aid recoil management more than a few millimeters of bore axis discrepancy.
To be honest, I have nothing against Glock except its grip angle. In fact a project gun that has been in my mind is to build a Glock from the ground up from ALL aftermarket parts (maybe it won't even be considered a Glock anymore). I'm thinking a Lone Wolf frame (comes with grip reduction), Storm Lake threaded barrel, and all aftermarket internals. What I do have a problem with is ignorant people posting up clearly biased threads promoting the Glock based entirely on inaccurate, inappropriate, or irrelevant information to justify why the Glock is better than all the other striker fired pistols.