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-   -   I LOVE the look of one SW1911 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=85236)

BTF/PTM 02-03-2008 12:59 PM

I LOVE the look of one SW1911
 
Ok, maybe I just never noticed before, but the blued SW1911 without front cocking serrations is absolutely beautiful. Finally a 1911 that's not a barebones mil-spec that doesn't have those extra grooves. Niiiiiice :cool: I had to leave the gun store to avoid spending a large chunk of money that I know I shouldn't spend right now.

TBoliv 02-03-2008 1:57 PM

I've got one. Shoots nice too.

Knight 02-03-2008 2:07 PM

I know what you mean about the front slide serrations. I don't understand why handgun manufacturers still insist on doing that.

Stanze 02-03-2008 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight (Post 978601)
I know what you mean about the front slide serrations. I don't understand why handgun manufacturers still insist on doing that.

It's for press-checking.

The external extractor on the SW1911 kinda looks off to me.

Knight 02-03-2008 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanze (Post 978615)
It's for press-checking.

Exactly. It generally isn't considered a safe practice anyway. So why have it?

Turbinator 02-03-2008 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight (Post 978626)
Exactly. It generally isn't considered a safe practice anyway. So why have it?

Not safe practice? Why not?

Turby

Black Majik 02-03-2008 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight (Post 978626)
Exactly. It generally isn't considered a safe practice anyway. So why have it?

Press-checking/chamber check is to ensure there's still a round in the gun before you go out for the day.

Same thing applies to checking that the gun is empty.

It's to check the status of the gun. As for the front cocking serrations, I love them. I press-check from underneath, so it definitely helps to have some traction there.

aplinker 02-03-2008 3:00 PM

Rolling your palm over the muzzle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbinator (Post 978639)
Not safe practice? Why not?

Turby


NeoWeird 02-03-2008 3:26 PM

I actually know a guy who takes serious firearms classes and he prefers the front serrations. What he does is he holds his 1911 in the normal two handed manner, then to mag change his support hand drops and does the motions, comes up and his palm crabbles the dust cover while his thumb and index finger wrap up to the slide from the bottom, gives a soft tug rearward on the slide and the slide slams home while his hand glides back to support position.

His firing hand never leaves the weapon, never changes grip or moves to depress slide lock so it stays at the ready, nothing obstructs his view and the weapon returns to ready just as quickly as any other method. Great method but it's hard to do without the front serrations.

Also, if you palm cups the muzzle when you check the chamber you're doing something wrong. Even when I didn't know better my hand was above the weapon with the end of my palm on top of the slide and my thumb and index finger grasping the slide near the ejection port.

aplinker 02-03-2008 3:39 PM

here's a pic of said pistol, since I like visuals.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...8285_large.jpg

Knight 02-03-2008 3:41 PM

To each his own, I guess. Still, you'll never catch me doing it.

leelaw 02-03-2008 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight (Post 978751)
To each his own, I guess. Still, you'll never catch me doing it.

You never check to see if the firearm is loaded?

Slide serrations are not for "press-checks" in the traditional sense (where you pressed against the front of the slide to check the chamber) but are still used for loaded checks.

So, now that we know that front slide serrations are not for "press checks" you simply just don't like them because of aesthetics, correct?

Knight 02-03-2008 6:59 PM

Looking at the picture again, I have to agree with Stanze in that the external extractor looks a little off. Besides that, I'm liking the lines, especially in the area around the trigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leelaw (Post 978792)
You never check to see if the firearm is loaded?

Slide serrations are not for "press-checks" in the traditional sense (where you pressed against the front of the slide to check the chamber) but are still used for loaded checks.

So, now that we know that front slide serrations are not for "press checks" you simply just don't like them because of aesthetics, correct?

It's pretty safe to say, I think, that when people now use the term "press check" they are referring to putting the slide back slightly to check the chamber. Besides, I wasn't the one who first said they were for "press checks." ;)

I "press check" :p using the rear slide serrations. I see no need for the front serrations because of this. Yeah, it's partly aesthetics, but it's also about paying for a feature on a gun that I don't need.

Here's what I am talking about, taken from this article:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...eckChamber.jpg

The second picture seems to look like the technique NeoWeird had mentioned.

tophatjones 02-03-2008 7:28 PM

Sorry, this is off topic, but does anyone know how the check in the second picture cause the guy to lose two fingers?

Black Majik 02-03-2008 7:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophatjones (Post 979045)
Sorry, this is off topic, but does anyone know how the check in the second picture cause the guy to lose two fingers?

Probably finger on the trigger..

leelaw 02-03-2008 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophatjones (Post 979045)
Sorry, this is off topic, but does anyone know how the check in the second picture cause the guy to lose two fingers?

Only way I can think of is a catastrophic failure likely to result in injury regardless. Generally a gun will only blow off something if you're hoding the something in front of the muzzle.

IIRC, a competition shooter injured his support hand by cycling the slide with his hand cupped over the ejection port and hit the primer of the chambered round on the ejector.

I'm skeptical as to how a press check using the front slide serrations lead to injury. I mean, according to the picture Wilson puts serrations where they're needed, and there they are on the front of the slide...

Paradiddle 02-03-2008 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanze (Post 978615)
It's for press-checking.

You can certainly safely press check using other methods - I hate front serrations on pistols - ruins the lines - especially on the 1911

tankerman 02-03-2008 7:46 PM

I don't like the external extractor. There is nothing wrong with 1911 extraction so why fix something that's not broken. I also think most folks do not care for them.

Kimber used to put those external extractors on their 1911's. I hear they had problems, they finally did away with them.

Knight 02-03-2008 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophatjones (Post 979045)
Sorry, this is off topic, but does anyone know how the check in the second picture cause the guy to lose two fingers?

From the article I linked to:

Quote:

It came into fashion subsequently to grasp the front of the slide to press it back. This too is dangerous. Famed firearms instructor John Farnam recently reported the case of an unfortunate man who managed to blow not one but two fingers off while doing that. The gun industry aids and abets this practice by putting grasping grooves on the front as well as the rear of the slide on many models.

Take John Farnamís advice, and mine. Always retract the slide of a semiautomatic pistol by using the grasping grooves located at the rear of the slide.
Companies like Wilson Combat put front slide serrations on guns because it's what their customers want. NOT because it's necessarily based on good technique. Many high-end guns/gun manufacturers do not include the front serrations.

The more I look into this topic, the more fascinating it gets. One guy in his blog claims that front slide serrations originated from ISPC matches in the late 80s/early 90s, as a way to press-check 1911s with mounted optics. This seems to be confirmed in a few other online discussions/articles on the subject. Can't say for sure, though. In theory, it makes sense.

slick_711 02-03-2008 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight (Post 978990)
Here's what I am talking about, taken from this article:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...eckChamber.jpg

You guys are over-evaluating; but my two cents anyway... The third method described there may be "safer" but it's no better a method. The first one is unsafe and stupid, only Steven Segal does that. The second one... well, I dislike it, and I don't like front serrations, but that's a personal preference. It's perfectly safe if you're not an idiot, and it's a very common method. The third is faulty because a new shooter (or an experienced shooter under pressure) can very easily rack the slide too far and eject the round.

The best method I've found for me is to rotate the fingers of my firing hand up onto the top of the slide while leaving my palm and thumb in place and just ease the slide back with three fingers. This only down side is that this may require a large hand. I don't want to hear any BS about losing your firing grip because you have no business being in a situation where you're in a rush to know whether or not your pistol is loaded. You put it on in the morning, and you check it. It's loaded. God forbid you have to reach for it later, it will be loaded. You don't press check a pistol as you draw down on somebody. :p

NeoWeird 02-03-2008 9:48 PM

Yeah, the second picture is pretty close except the weapon stays up at the ready with eyes on the sightes and sightes on the target. No dropping the weapon, or taking your eyes off the target - the only thing that changes is your support hand and it manipulates the magazines and returns the weapon to the ready.

I think that picture is mostly BS anyways. You'd have to be an idiot to blow off fingers with the second method. The hand is away from the muzzle, so unless you hand was on the trigger, breaking one of the rules of firearm safety, amd you somehow lost grip of the slide and you jerked the gun back and the snap caused your finger to pull the trigger than I just can't imagine it happening and you deserve it - it has nothing to do with the grasp but how big of an idiot the person was. That or after checking the weapon he swept his hand, breaking another rule of firearm safety, and pulled the trigger, breaking even another rule of firearm safety, and then he deserves it even more. By the way, WHO uses the first method?! I can imagine using the corner of something in combat if your arm was disabled, but come on, who wakes up and thinks "Duh...I wonder if my gun is loaded....better put my hand in front of it to check...."

BTF/PTM 02-03-2008 10:17 PM

haha, what have I started? I just think the gun looks so very much cleaner without those front serrations. That S&W is beautiful and it's good to hear that it shoots well. It'll be a while before I get a 1911, but it looks like that would be an option for me to buy and have tuned. I still haven't decided if I wanna do that or just get a really nice model like a Les Baer. Oh well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Oh, and for the record, I don't care how many professionals might do it or how safe a practice is "should be"; no one will ever catch me putting any part of my body anywhere near the muzzle of a loaded gun. Keep that sucker pointed away from you when you check the chamber, it just seems like common sense to me. Suit yourself, though.

slick_711 02-03-2008 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoWeird (Post 979319)
Yeah, the second picture is pretty close except the weapon stays up at the ready with eyes on the sightes and sightes on the target. No dropping the weapon, or taking your eyes off the target - the only thing that changes is your support hand and it manipulates the magazines and returns the weapon to the ready.

By the way, WHO uses the first method?!


The method you describe doesn't sound possible? I don't want to go break out my 1911, but if I keep the gun in a firing position I can't see into the barrel, furthermore, if my eyes/sights stay on target I can't look at the chamber anyway? Your description sounds like a great way to do mag changes, but an awkward/impossible way to press check. Furthermore, what on earth are you doing press checking your gun when it's pointed at somebody? At that point you should know the status of your pistol.

And I wasn't kidding, it really is Steven Segall that uses that first method.

Also, I too think the 1911 looks cleaner w/o front serrations.

NeoWeird 02-03-2008 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick_711 (Post 979389)
The method you describe doesn't sound possible? I don't want to go break out my 1911, but if I keep the gun in a firing position I can't see into the barrel, furthermore, if my eyes/sights stay on target I can't look at the chamber anyway? Your description sounds like a great way to do mag changes, but an awkward/impossible way to press check. Furthermore, what on earth are you doing press checking your gun when it's pointed at somebody? At that point you should know the status of your pistol.

And I wasn't kidding, it really is Steven Segall that uses that first method.

Also, I too think the 1911 looks cleaner w/o front serrations.

Sorry, I wasn't describing a way to check your chamber but a reason for why some people like the front serrations. Someone made a comment about them being pointless/useless and I was just trying to point out that they were put on there for a reason.

slick_711 02-04-2008 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoWeird (Post 979509)
Sorry, I wasn't describing a way to check your chamber but a reason for why some people like the front serrations. Someone made a comment about them being pointless/useless and I was just trying to point out that they were put on there for a reason.

Ahh, I misunderstood sorry. Yeah, I don't rack the slide in that manner but I know a number of guys that do, and do so efficiently & quickly. So they're definitely a feature some shooters may prefer.

gibbygoo 02-06-2008 9:39 PM

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review...-O_1911PKZ.jpg
no front serrations on this one either

rue 02-07-2008 2:57 PM

S&W is offering $100 rebates on the SW1911 right now for a limited time.
I was going to get the PD model but then S&W pissed me off losing my stubby I sent in for warranty and I'm not sure if I'm buying another S&W...


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