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-   -   Ammo prices and shortage (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=790848)

colossians323 07-10-2013 4:53 AM

Ammo prices and shortage
 
So I just traveled to about 7 different states visiting mainly wal marts, cabelas, and sportsmans warehouse.

None had .22, and I was told that it would get snatched up as soon as it was in stock.
Most had limited amounts of .45 wal mart priced at .42 a round others priced at .50 and up, .40, 9mm.
None had 556, or if they did it was around a buck a round (Wal-Mart selling for .62 a round).
Wal Mart limited you to 3 boxes per person per day, but the only ammo they really had was shot gun ammo, 7mm, 300 win mag, 270, and .243.

How long before the manufacturer's catch up with demand? I really thought the shortage would not be as bad in free states, but it is every bit as bad.
This really is disconcerting. Looking at the shelves empty of ammo really gave me a sick feeling in my stomach:(

SilverTauron 07-10-2013 5:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossians323 (Post 11782316)
So I just traveled to about 7 different states visiting mainly wal marts, cabelas, and sportsmans warehouse.

None had .22, and I was told that it would get snatched up as soon as it was in stock.
Most had limited amounts of .45 wal mart priced at .42 a round others priced at .50 and up, .40, 9mm.
None had 556, or if they did it was around a buck a round (Wal-Mart selling for .62 a round).
Wal Mart limited you to 3 boxes per person per day, but the only ammo they really had was shot gun ammo, 7mm, 300 win mag, 270, and .243.

How long before the manufacturer's catch up with demand? I really thought the shortage would not be as bad in free states, but it is every bit as bad.
This really is disconcerting. Looking at the shelves empty of ammo really gave me a sick feeling in my stomach:(

That's because you're looking in the wrong places.

I can buy ammo off the shelf at any time for those calibers, although not at the big box stores. I had an illuminating chat with a WalMart clerk who was kind enough to show me his order sheet. The Wally World nearest me only orders TWO BOXES of 9mm WWB per weekly shipment. Needless to say, that stuff is sold mere hours after its stocked.

My hypothesis- big box stores have given up trying to order ammo in this environment and are spending inventory dollars on other products until the heat dies down.

Ford8N 07-10-2013 5:30 AM

If the demand for ammo is so high, I'm wondering why Ammo manufactures are not building more production to meet this demand? There is money to be made.

FourLoko 07-10-2013 5:42 AM

Local Cabela's has it all. We don't need more of these threads. **** Wal-Mart.

FourLoko 07-10-2013 5:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 11782402)
If the demand for ammo is so high, I'm wondering why Ammo manufactures are not building more production to meet this demand? There is money to be made.

again, asked and answered

neonballoon 07-10-2013 5:59 AM

I wouldn't even bother with walmart. I happened to go in when they were just stocking the ammo display cases and a line was already formed through the entire aisle.

lgm118icbm 07-10-2013 6:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 11782402)
If the demand for ammo is so high, I'm wondering why Ammo manufactures are not building more production to meet this demand? There is money to be made.

:beatdeadhorse5:

colossians323 07-10-2013 6:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourLoko (Post 11782456)
Local Cabela's has it all. We don't need more of these threads. **** Wal-Mart.

cabelas was very pricey

VarmintKiller 07-10-2013 7:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourLoko (Post 11782456)
Local Cabela's has it all. We don't need more of these threads. **** Wal-Mart.

Really? Which Cabelas are you talking about? Cabelas has almost nothing available online and won't even let you backorder .223 or .22. The Reno store has nothing on the shelf.

I would suggest not clicking on a thread if you don't like the topic instead of telling people they are not needed. I want to hear the state of the ammo shortage in CA as well as other states. This site is dedicated to guns, threads about an ammo shortage make perfect sense.

I'd rather not shop in WalMart, but they have the best prices on ammo around when it is in stock. The local stores that have ammo are exploiting the shortages and charging .60+ a round for .19 ammo.

Rob454 07-10-2013 2:47 PM

Ammo is hard to find. Well its hard to find at local shops. It's not impossible. I walked in a Turners and the ammo shelves are fairly bare. Yeah there is some ammo on the shelf but its a miniscule amount. A few people walking inand buying the max allowed will blow through their stock.
I order my ammo online. Yeah it's not exactly cheap like the way it was but I just live with it. All you can do is try to find the cheapest price you can afford and buy it or save till you can. As far as Walmart if I can grab a box of something if they have I when I am there I buy it. I have purchased ammo from private party but those prices rival onlin prices so I buy online.

blubullett 07-10-2013 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VarmintKiller (Post 11782895)
Really? Which Cabelas are you talking about? Cabelas has almost nothing available online and won't even let you backorder .223 or .22. The Reno store has nothing on the shelf.

I would suggest not clicking on a thread if you don't like the topic instead of telling people they are not needed. I want to hear the state of the ammo shortage in CA as well as other states. This site is dedicated to guns, threads about an ammo shortage make perfect sense.

I'd rather not shop in WalMart, but they have the best prices on ammo around when it is in stock. The local stores that have ammo are exploiting the shortages and charging .60+ a round for .19 ammo.

I went to Cabelas in Reno a month ago and they had a pretty nice stock of .223. I got a 500 round case of federal, I think it was 235 OTD or so. Also, some guy posted a picture of thier .223 section a couple weeks ago and they had thousands of rounds.

My LGS had 55k .223 and 5.56 last week and the week before that they had 117k rounds of .22lr. The .223 was 100 round boxes of American Eagle for 45.99. They always have a box limit though like everyone else. I go to walmart every weekend early in the morning and score ammo once in a while. Probably once every three weeks. And go to Bass Pro twice a month and haven't gone home empty handed. I got my first .22lr two months ago and just went to my ammo cases to count ammo and I have 4100 rounds. None purchased from gougers.

You should find your local gun store that doesn't gouge people and go in there once in a while. Who knows, it might be one you don't even know about right now. Mine does facebook updates when they get pallets of ammo in so if you want to go down there and wait in line you are assured a brick of .22 or a few boxes of handgun ammo or .223 for pre panic prices.

I haven't been able to find any online source to reliably get cheap ammo. If you aren't sitting there waiting for emails you aren't going to get anything. I always get the in stock emails a couple hours later and by then it is gone.

Good hunting.

Merc1138 07-10-2013 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 11782402)
If the demand for ammo is so high, I'm wondering why Ammo manufactures are not building more production to meet this demand? There is money to be made.

Even though this has been asked and answered dozens of times(really, it has), here's the short version:

Ammo companies are currently running at full capacity. That doesn't mean they're making all calibers at all times. Buying more equipment requires more building space, and then requires more employees to be trained and then operating that equipment. That costs a buttload of money. Expanding a building or buying/leasing a new facility is not done overnight. Buying specialized manufacturing equipment(it's not like this stuff is just stocked on shelves at the local machine shop) costs a crapload of money plus installation.

This is also assuming that material suppliers can keep up with the increased demand from the manufacturers.

If the demand ever drops back to previous levels, or even just anything below current levels, you end up with equipment and employees sitting idle.

A 6 month spike in sales is not worth making an investment that could take years to pay for itself, if ever. Even if a company was planning to make such an investment, it could take months to bring the new manufacturing capability online once someone signs off on all of the paperwork.

GoatLovin 07-10-2013 7:26 PM

After driving from North Carolina to California, I can tell you the ammo is out there. Especially Utah. Stop going to the big box stores.

colossians323 07-10-2013 8:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoatLovin (Post 11788324)
After driving from North Carolina to California, I can tell you the ammo is out there. Especially Utah. Stop going to the big box stores.

Cabelas and sportsmen warehouse are considered big box stores?
went to small gun shops too, but they wanted to rape you for the price of ammo.

Spent around XXX dolllars and bought

150 .40 Federal hollow point home defense
750 .40 Winchester 180 grain target loads
700 9mm Winchester target
100 9mm tula brass
250 9mm Federal 115 grain
1000 .45 Winchester
100 .38 Winchester target
160 rounds federal 5.56

43Gunner 07-10-2013 9:24 PM

I just drove from Washington State to Cali. I would call ahead and ask what each store had in stock, no sweat off my back since I was driving 1200 miles anyway. Passed a Walmart every 30 miles or closer. I was ably to find everything I needed to outlast the shortage at very good prices. I will say all Walmarts are different, numerous times employees would tell me they got a shippment but no handgun rounds on the phone. I would stop by and find the ammo I was looking for. Some Walmart employees don't know the diffrence. I found over 2300 rounds of .45 1000 rounds of .40 300 rounds of .38 600 rounds of .223 and 550 rounds of .22. All of this just took a few phone calls and some persistence.

Obviously it helped I needed to make the dive anyway, but it turned out to be a nice vacation and solved my Ammo needs at the same time. Cabellas in Washington also had everything in stock.

I just put 500 rounds of .40 up for sale at my cost.

dyson 07-10-2013 10:06 PM

ammo is definitely available for a price.

BroncoBob 07-11-2013 7:03 AM

To it seems that a lot of people are waiting for prices of ammo to come down to pre-rush prices, unfortunately that's like waiting for the price of gas to come down to $2 a gallon. Last year I paid $263 delivered for 1000 rd of Wolf 223, today when you can find it the best price I've seen is $249 for 500 rd of Wolf 223 delivered.

jchen76@gmail.com 07-11-2013 9:05 AM

Feels like I'm reading an archived thread from 2009. For the newbies, this sucks. The 2009 scare probably burned ammo manufacturers. Ammo makers ramped up, bought new equipment, added shifts hoping for prolonged demand. Well it died off after year. With extra capital investments, some of the smaller outfits/resellers probably went out of business. This time around, ammo makers are probably more cautious. I'm seeing that 223 ammo is coming from Australia now on sgammo.com. How'd that happen?

klewan 07-11-2013 9:12 AM

Sometime next year is when it might get back closer to normal. The hoarders and flippers will ensure that we have low supply/high prices until then.

smith and wesson 07-11-2013 9:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchen76@gmail.com (Post 11791662)
Feels like I'm reading an archived thread from 2009. For the newbies, this sucks. The 2009 scare probably burned ammo manufacturers. Ammo makers ramped up, bought new equipment, added shifts hoping for prolonged demand. Well it died off after year. With extra capital investments, some of the smaller outfits/resellers probably went out of business. This time around, ammo makers are probably more cautious. I'm seeing that 223 ammo is coming from Australia now on sgammo.com. How'd that happen?

This. I read an article about this and it makes sense.

GoatLovin 07-11-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossians323 (Post 11788642)
Cabelas and sportsmen warehouse are considered big box stores?

Yes.

Findout 07-11-2013 11:38 AM

My local gun store has tons of .223 on the shelf and it has been pretty consistently full for weeks nows. They usually have some 9mm(I just bought another few hundred rounds between today and yesterday). They have tons of .38 Special, some .40, some .45 ACP, and lots of rifle specific stuff. .22LR is still pretty damn spotty though. I've only been able to get a couple odd bricks of Automatch lately and haven't seen any for at least three weeks now. I know I've missed out on a couple shipments though.

From what I'm seeing, it's dying down, but it will still be a while before you can expect to walk into a store and walk out with a good amount of the common stuff.

Sunday 07-11-2013 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 11782402)
If the demand for ammo is so high, I'm wondering why Ammo manufactures are not building more production to meet this demand? There is money to be made.

I would guess the corporations know guns will be banned in the near future.

NoSpam 07-11-2013 7:18 PM

As someone who's recently gotten back into this hobby , it's incredibly hard to accept today's ammo prices. 12 yrs ago, 9mm cost me $65 shipped for 500 rounds. WWB 9mm was sold for under $7/box at Walmart. Turners used to sell Wolf 7.62x39 for $1.49/box, and .223 for $1.99/box. I never liked Wolf because it was so dirty and gummy, so seeing today's prices for it was just mind-blowing.

Ammo manufacturers are doing what the oil guys have been doing for a long time. Why ramp up production when your product is high demand/high value, and you're already making more money than ever with the same raw materials, machinery, and workforce? They'd actually be undercutting themselves if they increased production.

What I'd like to know is what happened to all the imported surplus ammo? Wolf seems to be raking in the dough right now, but where'd all the other offerings go?

sl0re10 07-11-2013 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford8N (Post 11782402)
If the demand for ammo is so high, I'm wondering why Ammo manufactures are not building more production to meet this demand? There is money to be made.

They all say the tooling up is too expensive. If they don't get to keep the market share after the bubble; they'll get saddled with debt.

JohnnyMtn 07-11-2013 7:28 PM

Would love to be able to find CCI mini-mags again. I really miss that load and I fear that man will never see it again.

HOGLEG 07-11-2013 7:33 PM

Remington is opening a new plant. http://www.guns.com/2013/05/10/light...mports-double/

Remington has pledged a whopping $32 million to expand their Lonoke, Ark. plant with the construction of an entirely new manufacturing facility. The expansion is expected to be up and running at full capacity by the summer of 2014, with ground broken for the new building by the second quarter of this year.

Armscor announced their $4 million expansion of their ammunition manufacturing facility in Pahrump, Nev.http://www.sys-con.com/node/2643743

Federal says they are running 24/7.

Merc1138 07-11-2013 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOGLEG (Post 11796633)
Remington is opening a new plant. http://www.guns.com/2013/05/10/light...mports-double/

Remington has pledged a whopping $32 million to expand their Lonoke, Ark. plant with the construction of an entirely new manufacturing facility. The expansion is expected to be up and running at full capacity by the summer of 2014, with ground broken for the new building by the second quarter of this year.

Armscor announced their $4 million expansion of their ammunition manufacturing facility in Pahrump, Nev.http://www.sys-con.com/node/2643743

Federal says they are running 24/7.

If you look at Armscor's facebook page you see the occasion update like this from May
Quote:

Inspecting my new 7.62 bullet machine in Michigan. It should be ready by August.
So like I said above, the companies that do have the cash to expand, you won't be seeing a difference for months because that stuff takes lots of time.

colossians323 07-12-2013 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 43Gunner (Post 11789312)
I just drove from Washington State to Cali. I would call ahead and ask what each store had in stock, no sweat off my back since I was driving 1200 miles anyway. Passed a Walmart every 30 miles or closer. I was ably to find everything I needed to outlast the shortage at very good prices. I will say all Walmarts are different, numerous times employees would tell me they got a shippment but no handgun rounds on the phone. I would stop by and find the ammo I was looking for. Some Walmart employees don't know the diffrence. I found over 2300 rounds of .45 1000 rounds of .40 300 rounds of .38 600 rounds of .223 and 550 rounds of .22. All of this just took a few phone calls and some persistence.

Obviously it helped I needed to make the dive anyway, but it turned out to be a nice vacation and solved my Ammo needs at the same time. Cabellas in Washington also had everything in stock.

I just put 500 rounds of .40 up for sale at my cost.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...g/image-10.jpg


Wow, that is 20 wal-marts or 10 wal marts with 2 adults. Every wal-mart I stopped at in Washington had a 3 box limit.

Cato 07-12-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossians323 (Post 11798685)
Wow, that is 20 wal-marts or 10 wal marts with 2 adults. Every wal-mart I stopped at in Washington had a 3 box limit.

...and about $300 worth of gas. :eek:

parksmart 07-12-2013 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cato (Post 11800905)
...and about $300 worth of gas. :eek:

Some guys drive around the country to see games at every MLB stadium. And some guys stop at every Walmart looking for ammo during their road trip. Different strokes.......

SmallShark 07-20-2013 10:56 AM

why do they want to invest in new machines, new buildings and new employees to drive DOWN prices, then later shut down the machines, lay off the employees, and wait for the next panic?


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