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nicksmom 03-16-2013 10:51 AM

CCW shooting test
 
Taking the 8 hour CCW class & test for an El Dorado County CCW next week and I'm a little nervous about the shooting portion of the test. Not actually "shooting" but hitting the target accurately in the approved time, since I haven't had a lot of practice time on my handgun (S&W .38 Bodyguard) and NONE single-handed. I've looked online to find out what will be required and the only post I can find is for another state. Does this look realistic for CA?

SHOOTING TEST

You must fire 2 shots “center mass” at the target from 3 yards. 1 or 2 hand grip in 3 seconds. Repeat 3 times?

You must fire 3 shots “center mass” at the target from 5 yards. 1 or 2 hands grip in 5 seconds Repeat 2 times?

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 7 yards. Using the two hand grip in 8 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 7 yards. Using the strong hand grip in 10 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 7 yards. Using the weak hand grip in 15 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 10 yards. Using the two hand grip in 10 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 15 yards. Using the two hand grip in 15 seconds!

You can only have 2 shots placed outside the point area to pass.

Librarian 03-16-2013 11:30 AM

Well, that can't be right for your Bodyguard, since it holds only 5 ...

It's variable - here's one good answer from earlier

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccwtrainer (Post 5820051)
For Sac County and most others, the course of fire is determined by the instructor. Amador County and a few others mandate a specific course of fire and even a specific target. Here's the course of fire that I use, unless the issuing agency mandates a specific one:
15 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
7 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
3 yards - 6 rounds, reload, then 6 more rounds
Your reload can either be an emergency or tactical reload, either is perfectly fine.
All shooting is performed standing, strong side, two handed, and drawn from the holster.
You must achieve at least 85% of your shots (31 out of 36 or 26 out of 30) in the large center thoracic cavity on a TQ-15 target.
If using a 5-shot firearm, you only need to shoot 5 rounds, reload, then 5 more rounds at each distance.
After everyone has qualified, we usually get to practice a bunch more shooting positions, rapid fire, multiple target, shooting while moving drills and more!! Much thanks is given to the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center for allowing the facilities for us to train the way we would need to shoot in a defensive situation.

This target - http://www.letargets.com/images/tq-15.jpg

nicksmom 03-16-2013 11:52 AM

Well that looks better. I was wondering if I was going to have to quickly reload another bullet, maybe even with my weak hand, all in a few seconds! My dad's buddy (80 years old) says there's no way I'm going to be able to get a CCW anyway...since I'm a girl.;)

Bert Gamble 03-16-2013 11:54 AM

I do not have a CCW, but the range I went to the first time I tried out a handgun had them posted on the stall. I decided to give it a try, and found it to be quite easy. Actually, if a person can't pass the shooting portion, they probably shouldn't even own a gun.

I wouldn't worry about it.

ElDub1950 03-16-2013 11:58 AM

I thought different trainers set their own requirements. That's the way it was 18 months ago when I got my ccw in El Dorado Co.

Check on you trainer's web site. They usually post that info. edit: I'll take that back. I looked at a handful of training links I saved and couldn't find it on any.

LTC-J 03-16-2013 12:00 PM

I think it depends upon the instructor as well as the county.

Librarian hit the one I went through and the instructor. As far as I know, Wes's course is good for El Dorado also since we did have a couple people from El Dorado county qualifying when I did.

Not too bad to do. I did it recently with a Glock 30 and will be doing it again tomorrow with another Glock 30:43:

railgunner 03-16-2013 12:01 PM

Fresno County is total of 50 shots. Could be one out of one gun and 49 out of the other. It is not that difficult.

firemanjoe 03-16-2013 12:14 PM

Any idea what is required for San Bernardino county?

Librarian 03-16-2013 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksmom (Post 10826676)
Well that looks better. I was wondering if I was going to have to quickly reload another bullet, maybe even with my weak hand, all in a few seconds! My dad's buddy (80 years old) says there's no way I'm going to be able to get a CCW anyway...since I'm a girl.;)

Bet him a box of ammo - you'll win!

Dvrjon 03-16-2013 8:15 PM

The Course of Fire for each training agency varies. I completed CCW qualification firing with CSTI in Sacramento. Following is information on their course of fire.

Qualifying was done at the Mangan Indoor Range in Sacramento. Shooting positions were inside the normal "stall and table" arrangements at most ranges, and were established along a well-worn yellow line. Folding TV-dinner-type tables or folding chairs (really) were placed to provide a shooting position table. Sacramento PD Instructor was running the line. Range instructions were standard and clear, but being beyond the barricades and on an open shooting line seemed stressfull for some. Weapons and ammunition were placed on the tables or chairs with actions open until we were directed to pick up the weapons and load.
Targets were standard B57 silhouettes, and any round inside the 8 ring or the head/neck counted as 5 points. This gives you a "center-mass" target of about 11.75"w x 17"h. 50 rounds can provide a max score of 250; 200 points are needed to qualify. You could begin with weapon holstered or held at a low ready position.

Course of Fire:

A. 3 Yds: 6 rounds; 3 stages: 2 rounds in 3 seconds; standing, strong hand, unsupported, point shooting

B. 5 Yds: 6 rounds; 2 stages: 3 rounds in 4 seconds; standing, strong hand, supported,

C. 7 yds: 6 rounds; 1 stage: 6 rounds in 10 seconds; standing, strong hand supported

D. 7 yds; 12 rounds; 1 stage: 25 seconds (includes reloads; load 6 and 6)
-6 rounds standing, strong hand unsupported
-Reload.
-6 rounds standing, weak hand unsupported

E. 7 yds: 14 rounds; 1stage: 45 seconds (includes two reloads; load 6, 6 and 2) (semi-autos load 6 and 8)
-6 rounds standing strong hand supported
-Kneel then Reload
-8 rounds kneeling, strong hand supported

F. 15 yds: 6 rounds; 1 stage: 30 seconds; standing strong hand supported

NOTES:
-3 seconds is plenty of time to draw and get off two rounds if you are on a line, planning on doing it. It also makes you realize how much more time it will take you're not on a line and are not expecting it.
-Between the stages of A and B, there is a command to safe the weapon and reholster before the next stage begins. This allows time to reload 5-round revolvers or short-magazine pistols.
-Also, if there is a weapon or ammunition malfunction, or odd reloading requirements (see below) which do not allow enough time to complete the stage in the alloted time, the instructors provide “alibi” shots outside of the time frame to allow you to shoot for score.
-As one of my weapons, I fired a five-round, S&W 649 (.38 Special) from an IWB holster and had intended to use a 5-round speedloader to reload. Unfortunately, the instructor wanted the speedloader used to initially charge the weapon, leaving me with a loaded gun and empty speedloader. All reloads were accomplished by dumping the cylinder and individually loading the cartridges.There's still ample time to do this
The five-round cylinder required a modification to the loading protocol as follows:
A: Load 4/Fire two stages of two rounds, each; Reload 2/Fire last stage.
B: Load 3/Fire; Reload 3/Fire
C: Load 5/Fire; Reload 1/Fire
D: Load 5/Fire; Reload 1/Fire; Switch Hands; Reload 5/Fire; Reload 1/Fire
E: Load 5/Fire; Reload 1/Fire; Kneel and Reload 5/Fire; Reload 3/Fire.
F: Load 5/Fire; Reload 1/Fire

Cheers.

JR

HighLander51 03-16-2013 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firemanjoe (Post 10826824)
Any idea what is required for San Bernardino county?

So easy you can't believe it.....

Teohenwhy 03-16-2013 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksmom (Post 10826676)
! My dad's buddy (80 years old) says there's no way I'm going to be able to get a CCW anyway...since I'm a girl.;)

Silly comment

Teohenwhy 03-16-2013 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksmom (Post 10826676)
Well that looks better. I was wondering if I was going to have to quickly reload another bullet, maybe even with my weak hand, all in a few seconds! My dad's buddy (80 years old) says there's no way I'm going to be able to get a CCW anyway...since I'm a girl.;)

I know 3 " girls " who have CCW's

Teohenwhy 03-16-2013 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert Gamble (Post 10826692)
. Actually, if a person can't pass the shooting portion, they probably shouldn't even own a gun.

it.

So you're saying you were a good shooter from the minute you ever picked up a gun? People who are fairly new at shooting guns might not be able to pass the shooting test. All that means is they need more practice not necessarily that they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. That statement is just ridiculous.

stich 03-17-2013 10:28 AM

I help out the instructor every month here in Amador Co.Must get 26 out of 30 on target. Here's the COF if I recall it right:

3 Yard Line: 5 Rounds Total (Gun Ready Position)
1. Fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds with strong hand only. Cover target till safe and holster weapon on command.
2. Fire 3 rounds in 4 seconds: 2 rounds to the body with strong hand only, 1 round to the head strong hand supported. Cover target till safe and holster weapon on command.
7 Yard Line: 20 Rounds Total
1. Form the “Surrender” position, draw and fire 5 rounds, strong hand supported within 15 seconds. Cover target till safe and holster weapon on command.
2. From the “Hip” position, draw and fire 5 rounds, strong hand supported in 4 seconds. Cover target till safe and holster weapon on command.
3. From the “Hip” position, draw and fire 2 rounds standing, strong hand supported. Drop to kneeling position and make a magazine switch. Fire 3 rounds kneeling, weak hand only within 15 seconds.
4. Form the “Surrender” position, draw and fire 2 rounds standing, strong hand supported. Drop to a kneeling position and make a magazine switch. Fire 3 rounds kneeling, strong hand supported within 15 seconds.
15 Yard Line: (Barricade) 5 Rounds Total (Surrender Position)
1. On command, approach barricade at a hurried pace, draw and fire 2 rounds strong hand supported from standing position behind barricade. Drop to a kneeling position behind barricade and make a magazine switch. Fire 3 rounds strong hand supported from kneeling position (strong side) behind barricade within 18 seconds

It's not hard but safety is our biggest issue. If you have your finger on the trigger anytime other than when ready to fire, we will DQ you. I and the other instructors want to go home that day.

diverwcw 03-17-2013 10:33 AM

Don't let the times spook you. It sounds like a flash but it's enough time.

Manolito 03-17-2013 10:52 AM

Don't let this eat you up. My wife went through the same thing anxiety on this that and the other. What if I fail what if all the guys do well and they make fun of me etc. She went to the range out shot two police officers and all but one other student in the class you guessed it another female.

The gun you have chosen is difficult to take to the range and enjoy practicing. I don't care who you are. Having said that There is a product called extend a grip by Hogue that allows you to put another finger on the grip and makes the gun easier to shoot. This is what I put on the gun for the wife and it improved her range score by 15 points.

Shoot your game not any body elses. Pay attention to safety and where you point the muzzle of the gun even while reloading. Practice this at home over and over. I like snap caps because it allows you to load and unload the little revolver.

Control your breath and take aim carefully practice increasing pressure on the trigger until you can feel that point of pull over where the firing starts. Once you have these techniques you will be hard to beat.

Good luck and hold your head up and shoot well. Let us know how bad you beat the Boys.

Respectfully,
Bill

HighLander51 03-17-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert Gamble (Post 10826692)
I decided to give it a try, and found it to be quite easy. Actually, if a person can't pass the shooting portion, they probably shouldn't even own a gun.

Yea, I agree with that, but then about 95% of the CCW permits would have to be pulled. In San Bernardino the qualification used to be 5 rounds on a B27 target at 5 yards ANYWHERE IN THE BLACK from a hold on target start... And some people took several tries. Just taking a CCW qualification doesn't mean you know how to shoot at all. CCW class does not usually give you the fuandamentals of shooting: stance, grip, sight picture and trigger control, let alone how to shoot quickly and accurately from concealment while moving. and I know from renewal class these people haven't practiced since they got their permit. My idea would be the IDPA classifier scoring at least sharpshooter.

Hopalong 03-17-2013 11:28 AM

Trust me, your instructor will make sure you pass.

Don't worry about it

NorCalNative 03-17-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 10826901)
Bet him a box of ammo - you'll win!

^^^^this. Seriously, maybe try this if method. Go into your garage or hallway with and unloaded gun, some empty and a digital timer. Set the timer to what you'll need to beat. See if you can dry fire the shots and pretend (just go through the motions) to reload. You'll see that you'll have plenty of time. And you'll get some practice with the holster and learn where it feels good to keep your reloads.

nicksmom 03-17-2013 12:26 PM

I'm supposed to receive an email this week telling me more about the class & what to bring, so maybe it will have some specifics on qualifying. I'll update when I find out more.

Bert Gamble 03-18-2013 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teohenwhy (Post 10830583)
So you're saying you were a good shooter from the minute you ever picked up a gun? People who are fairly new at shooting guns might not be able to pass the shooting test. All that means is they need more practice not necessarily that they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. That statement is just ridiculous.

Of course I was not a good shooter the minute I picked up a gun. I was actually pretty terrible if you must know. What I was saying was that if someone as bad as me could do the CCW test, it is pretty freaking easy.

tkoden 03-18-2013 1:33 PM

Does anyone know where I can download the full size version of the TQ-15 target? I have access to a plotter and would like to print some out for practice.

Decoligny 03-18-2013 1:49 PM

My instructer here in Kern County had me shoot 8 rounds in 15 seconds at 10 feet all rounds had to be in the 8.5 X 11 paper target, then another 8 rounds in 30 seconds at 20 feet all rounds in the 8.5 X 11.

Took all of about 5 minutes from pulling into my buddy's gravel pit, setting up the target, marking a 10 foot and twenty foot line, shooting, removing taget, cleaning up brass, and leaving.

nicksmom 03-18-2013 2:22 PM

I stopped by the shop that is conducting the CCW class and asked what was involved with the firing portion of the test, thinking maybe I should reschedule after I'd practiced some more. Neither of the men were the instructor, but they told me it depends on the instructor. The instructor I will have (for El Dorado County CCW) will require a two-handed firing from their front door to the standard silhouette target (about 7 yards). No mention of it being timed. Gotta hit 26 out of 30. No single-handed. I got the impression that if I didn't get 26 out of 30, I might get to try again. No holster needed for qualification.

Brian1979 03-18-2013 4:34 PM

If you can't pass something this easy please don't bother carrying a gun. Seriously what would be the point? Possibly killing bystanders and injuring yourself seems a higher probability.

I agree with passing something like the IDPA classifier should be required.

nicksmom 03-18-2013 6:33 PM

My concern was speed & accuracy on a 7 yard target using my snub nose that I intend to carry in case of a close-contact attack or carjack.

LTC-J 03-18-2013 6:54 PM

With the test Librarian mentioned (3,7,15yards), the longer distances were not a problem for the revolver guys I watched attempt it. All of them had an issue during the first attempt at 3 yards with 5, reload, 5.

The reload screwed them up but most were able to still qualify after a few practice rounds of reloading.:facepalm:

At 3 yards with a semi-auto, there is no issue of getting all 12 in the box in 15 seconds.

Teohenwhy 03-18-2013 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1979 (Post 10845145)
If you can't pass something this easy please don't bother carrying a gun. Seriously what would be the point be

Another arrogant comment

HighLander51 03-19-2013 6:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1979 (Post 10845145)
If you can't pass something this easy please don't bother carrying a gun. Seriously what would be the point? Possibly killing bystanders and injuring yourself seems a higher probability.

I agree with passing something like the IDPA classifier should be required.

Have you ever shot an IDPA classifier? What was your time?

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net 03-19-2013 6:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksmom (Post 10826271)
Taking the 8 hour CCW class & test for an El Dorado County CCW next week and I'm a little nervous about the shooting portion of the test. Not actually "shooting" but hitting the target accurately in the approved time, since I haven't had a lot of practice time on my handgun (S&W .38 Bodyguard) and NONE single-handed. I've looked online to find out what will be required and the only post I can find is for another state. Does this look realistic for CA?

SHOOTING TEST

You must fire 2 shots “center mass” at the target from 3 yards. 1 or 2 hand grip in 3 seconds. Repeat 3 times?

You must fire 3 shots “center mass” at the target from 5 yards. 1 or 2 hands grip in 5 seconds Repeat 2 times?

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 7 yards. Using the two hand grip in 8 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 7 yards. Using the strong hand grip in 10 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 7 yards. Using the weak hand grip in 15 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 10 yards. Using the two hand grip in 10 seconds!

You must fire 6 shots “center mass” at the target from 15 yards. Using the two hand grip in 15 seconds!

You can only have 2 shots placed outside the point area to pass.

Please, don't make the mistake of physicing yourself out. I took CCWTrainers course earlier this month and it was a lot easier to qualify that you would think. Also, any good instructor is going to work with you to help you overcome any obstacles. Wes (CCWTrainer) is an excellent instructor. Have fun with this. You'll love it.

HapaMan 03-19-2013 7:16 AM

Piece of cake. Just take a deep breath, and relax. Mental attitude has a lot to do with it. If you don't think you will pass, then you probably won't. Start changing that attitude to "I know I can do this, I just need to relax." It seems like they are giving you plenty of time, so don't rush those shots, either.

Dvrjon 03-19-2013 9:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksmom (Post 10846241)
My concern was speed & accuracy on a 7 yard target using my snub nose that I intend to carry in case of a close-contact attack or carjack.

I qualified with a S&W 649-2, with a 2" barrel (and an LC9 and a 1911-A1). Here are my thoughts on the snubby.

There is more to do with a revolver than an auto, but this isn't rocket science. Since you're a Mom, you're already over-qualified for the multi-tasking.:D

First, your pistol may be rated for +P ammo. Don't shoot it for qualification. Use standard, plain old .38 Special. It has less recoil and will be easier on you to shoot and recover for follow up shots. (You don't have to stop the paper target, you just have to hit it).

You will have to run a reload. You will need speed loaders to do this. There is more time than you need to do this. Slow down to speed up. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Some speed loaders don't work well with specific snubbies and their grips. Sometimes the speed loader is too long or wide, and the distance between the cylinder face and the grips is too short for the loader to fit. You can either cut the grips back, change grips, get a different (shorter) loader, or get shorter ammunition (see below). Your shop can help you determine what will work best. You then need to understand how the loader works so you can easily release the shells. (Loading the shells into the speed loader is another interesting task you will need to learn).

Some ammunition is longer than others: round nose lead is longer than wad cutters, so wad cutters will have more clearance. However, because they are flat, wad cutters may be hard to line up in the cylinders. Round noses help in this. Semi-wad cutters and truncated nose ammunition are in between. Regardless of the ammo, you will need to "jiggle" the loader a little bit to align the shells and fully load the cylinder.

As part of your class, you will probably have some instruction on gun handling, and your instructor might be able to give you some pointers. Some classes allow time for practice fire; some don't.

Dry firing for practice now is good. Yanking on the trigger will mess up your shot. Think of pressing the trigger back. It's a long press, and you need to know about where the trigger will break the shot (release the hammer). You can press hard to start, then as you reach that point, check your sight picture and then finish the press. Your gun probably doesn't have rear sights or if it does, they are just a groove in the top strap. Focus on the front sight. Put it on the center of the target and press.

Two final thoughts: First, no quality instructor shows up to see a student fail. They want to show they have the ability to make every student successful.

Second, it'll be over before you know it.

Best.

JR

nicksmom 03-20-2013 4:11 PM

Sheriff's office just called and I have to re-do my LiveScan fingerprints due to lack of quality. I had these done almost 3 weeks ago. Next available appointment isn't until April 24. Surprising, since she was able to get a score of 97+ on them (two fingerprints were 100).

nicksmom 03-25-2013 5:45 PM

I passed the written & shooting test! Now I just need the FBI check completed.

Dvrjon 03-25-2013 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksmom (Post 10913451)
I passed the written & shooting test! Now I just need the FBI check completed.

Congratulations.

JR

Bill1957 03-25-2013 7:03 PM

Congrats!!!!

Supertac916 03-26-2013 8:07 AM

Congrats!! Passing is half the battle and the rest is training for the unlikely event you'll ever have to use your gun in self defense. I'd recommend looking up some defensive handgun and CCW skill building instructors. They teach out at Sac Valley and one of the teams I've liked training with is Grey Ops. It's a lot of fun and the women who've joined the classes have had a blast. You'll be able to qualify in your sleep:)

stich 03-26-2013 11:45 AM

Way to go! See, it wasn't as hard as you thought. Now practice, practice.

ElDub1950 03-26-2013 11:52 AM

We knew you would! :)

Never underestimate the value of ongoing training.


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