Calguns.net

Calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php)
-   Curio & Relic/Black Powder (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=84)
-   -   CA Legal mas49/56 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=710206)

glennsche 02-23-2013 3:07 AM

CA Legal mas49/56
 
hi everyone,

so i've gotten strangely obsessed with this rifle. the majority of the ones i see on GB still have the grenade launcher on the barrel and as such as i understand are illegal under CA law.

i've only gotten to play with one of these once back when Harmoniums had one with an original french scope, but its subsequently been sold to fuel his obsession with douchey pistols.

post pics of the ones you got! and what do you think I oughta pay for one? and anyone sellin one in a month or so?

i'll be back from Zurich in just over a month, mouth is watering at the thought of reapplying for the C&R and getting back on the rifle collecting bandwagon.

we had a "french day" at the range at one point, the one on the far right is the only one i've ever known.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...e/IMG_0365.jpg

Zedrek 02-23-2013 6:23 AM

French Day at the firing range? Sounds like there wouldn't be much firing, just a lot of surrendering. Hehe, Sorry, couldn't help it.

harmoniums 02-23-2013 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedrek (Post 10619748)
French Day at the firing range? Sounds like there wouldn't be much firing, just a lot of surrendering. Hehe, Sorry, couldn't help it.

we smoked four cigarettes for every round expended.

mj1 02-23-2013 7:32 AM

;(
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedrek (Post 10619748)
French Day at the firing range? Sounds like there wouldn't be much firing, just a lot of surrendering. Hehe, Sorry, couldn't help it.

Is that supposed to be funny? You must be from the failed public school system that no longer teaches real history and never heard of the An Khe pass then. I stood there in 1967 reading the head stones of a whole French battalion that died almost to the last man rather than give up. How about the 250,000 who marched to the Somme and never returned. Not so funny. I don't have a lot going for the French today but show some respect even if you don't know why.

ditchdrift 02-23-2013 7:38 AM

Jeez, you need to chill out. Never heard of the french guns for sale? Never fired, dropped once?

Sent from my MOTOROLA-DynaTAC-8000x using Tapatalk 2

C&Rtrader 02-23-2013 8:45 AM

Enough of the anti french stuff.... i am more curious about how to get one of those awesome rifles into california

WnP 02-23-2013 9:05 AM

I believe you have to remove the entire grenade launcher system. The majority of people in other states won't do that.

Mustang 02-23-2013 9:50 AM

I've wondered how accurate those MAS 49's and 49/56's are.

The MAS 44 and MAS 49 are very similar but without the launcher.

smle-man 02-23-2013 1:34 PM

You must remove the GL range ring and the flash hider. Accuracy on mine is ten ring @ 100 yds. A very handy rifle with a cartridge equivilant to the 7.62MM NATO in power.

glennsche 02-23-2013 1:37 PM

the thing about the anti french jokes is they're just such a tired unfactual cliche at this point, and so unfair.

anti french sentiment reached its fever pitch when the french wouldnt follow us into iraq a second time (after contributing an armored division first time around) and this rekindled all this anti french sentiment which started with the US frustration with Degaulle and continued on throughout the cold war because the French wouldnt fall in line with the rest of Western Europe with washington's demands.

Being frustrated with post war french foreign policy with the US is one thing, but perverting French military history to serve a contemporary political agenda is just flat out wrong.

The French literally bled to death in ww1 rather than surrender.
The French didnt "surrender" in 1940, they had their asses kicked by a foe which had better tactics. They got beat, they werent cowards. Indeed, the Dutch, Norwegians, Danish, Yugoslavs and every other country that faced the Wehrmacht in 1940 got beat too, including the Brits; they just were lucky enough to not have a land bridge connecting them to the continent, or 3000 miles and 4million soldiers to learn from their own mistakes like the Soviets did.

The French in Algeria were on a fools errand, same as in Vietnam, same as WE were in Vietnam: trying to solve a political problem with the military.

So yeah, friends and fellow shooters, STFU with tired french cliches it just makes you look like you havent read enough history.

read these books:
alistair horne's "The Price of Glory: Verdun 1916"
alistair horne's "to lose a battle, france 1940"
alistair hornes "a savage war of peace" about the algerian war
and "the last valley: dien bien phu and the french defeat in vietnam"

and then, well, if after reading those books you still think an old and busted cliche is funny, well, read em again. :)

glennsche 02-23-2013 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smle-man (Post 10622975)
You must remove the GL range ring and the flash hider. Accuracy on mine is ten ring @ 100 yds. A very handy rifle with a cartridge equivilant to the 7.62MM NATO in power.

is this possible at home or do you need a gunsmith to do it?
and i assume it would technically have to be done before crossing state lines? (ie, buying one and having it delivered to a C&R addy and then doing the necessary circumscion once it was here would be verboten)

C&Rtrader 02-23-2013 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glennsche (Post 10623015)
is this possible at home or do you need a gunsmith to do it?
and i assume it would technically have to be done before crossing state lines? (ie, buying one and having it delivered to a C&R addy and then doing the necessary circumscion once it was here would be verboten)

It must be done out of state. The gl is a destructive device so mere possession is a no no. Throw it away before you come home. I have removed gls from yugo sks before. One took heat from a blowtorch and a little torque. Maybe 5 min total. The other was a royal pain and had to be cut with a dremel.

mj1 02-23-2013 2:20 PM

;) LOL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ditchdrift (Post 10620270)
Jeez, you need to chill out. Never heard of the french guns for sale? Never fired, dropped once?

Sent from my MOTOROLA-DynaTAC-8000x using Tapatalk 2

Do you quote every baseless thing you hear or fact less thing you read?

Good luck with that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ps657135f1.jpg

smle-man 02-23-2013 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glennsche (Post 10623015)
is this possible at home or do you need a gunsmith to do it?
and i assume it would technically have to be done before crossing state lines? (ie, buying one and having it delivered to a C&R addy and then doing the necessary circumscion once it was here would be verboten)

The flash hider/grenade launcher combo has a washer that is punched up into a cutout in the FH body to hold it in place. Use a screw driver to pry down the retaining piece so the washer is flat, put a nail through one FH hole and out the corresponding side and use it has a handle to turn off th FH and retaining nut. Then slide off the range ring. The rifles shoot better without the range ring anyway, it does funny things to the barrel harmonics.

joefrank64k 02-23-2013 4:01 PM

FWIW...Another thing to consider, according to Dennis at Empire Arms, once you remove the grenade launcher it nullifies the C&R status of the rifle.

At least that's what he told me when he had one come up for sale that was mfg. in 1970 and I asked him if he could just remove the grenade launcher before shipping it to me. It was a no-go for him. Too bad, the one he had was super clean and had all the cool accessories. Rats!!!

I want one of these in a bad way, too glensche! :)

Emdawg 02-23-2013 4:23 PM

The only time the French got their butts beat and surrendered without much of a real fight was the Franco-Prussian War. This was due to poor management of the war by Emperor Napoleon III. The Battle of Sedan ended with his capture and the decimation of whole French Army. The French Congress then met and declared the country a Republic and then surrendered to Germany after a little bit of sporadic fighting.

Not long after this William of Prussia was crowned Emperor of Germany and the French ceded vital territory on their side of the Rhine.

Other than that the French usually fought long and hard against invaders.

But then again it was just a French joke...


As for a French Mas... watch out for slam fire.;)

Tmckinney 02-23-2013 4:51 PM

I want one as well.

BTW. I doubt there would be a USA today without French millitary power. Washington beat the British because he was supported by French Naval power.

Didn't work out too well for the French regime however, as scholars sometimes assert that financial costs of helping us win our revolution was major factor in the French Revolution.

knucklehead0202 02-23-2013 5:12 PM

wow, so personal character attacks for making offhand used-up jokes is what we're down to here? even the french have thicker skin.....for extensive info about the mas49 and 49/56 check out the french section on gunboards.com. lots of good info on there.

empirearms 02-23-2013 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WnP (Post 10620891)
I believe you have to remove the entire grenade launcher system. The majority of people in other states won't do that.

They will be NO LONGER classified as C&R if you do that. . .

Mustang 02-23-2013 7:48 PM

The MAS 49's without the /56 mods are still around.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=330241757

As are the MAS 44's. They are harder to find though.

Tmckinney 02-23-2013 8:40 PM

Mustang--isn't that a grenade launcher on the front, or just a grenade sight?

smle-man 02-23-2013 10:29 PM

Syrian contract Model 49 with grenade range sleeve and grenade sight. The range sleeve would have to be removed before shipping to CA.

C&Rtrader 02-23-2013 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by empirearms (Post 10626098)
They will be NO LONGER classified as C&R if you do that. . .


I wish there was a more clear cut answer on that. I seem to recall there being an ATF memo stating that removing a GL did not alter C&R status. I played around on google but was unable to locate it.

ATF section on modifications to a C&R and its status.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curi...#modifications

dfletcher 02-23-2013 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smle-man (Post 10627578)
Syrian contract Model 49 with grenade range sleeve and grenade sight. The range sleeve would have to be removed before shipping to CA.

Is removing just the ring sufficient? It seems to me it might remain a GL, just not one that can be aimed as intended - but it's still a functional GL. And there's the flash hider issue.

I modified the FH so a grenade can't be slipped over, lined the inside with a metal sleeve to obscure the holes on the device. I had the rear ranging flip up sight soldered in the down position so the gas system can't be used to launch a grenade, it's not visible. I think between eliminating the mounting of the grenade, eliminating the gas required to propel it and modifying the FH I'm fine. I think these changes, neither permanent nor visible, may keep the C & R status even though that's not my primary goal.

I think someone could make a few $$$ re-threading 30 caliber brakes for use on the MAS 49/56. Having a muzzle device that is clearly not a flash hider and prevents mounting of a grenade seems to me the best way to remove doubt as to legality in CA.

6mmintl 02-24-2013 4:18 AM

Respect your allies, and respect your enemy even more.

guncollector 02-24-2013 5:44 AM

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0d75bf4f.jpg

I'll play. Here's my CA-Legal MAS 49/56--low investment, high-quality, compact but hard-hitting, and expensive-to-feed (unless you reload). What's there not to love?

glennsche 02-24-2013 6:53 AM

gun collector, how is that legal? looks like you've got the GL sight on there at least..

guncollector 02-24-2013 7:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glennsche (Post 10629058)
gun collector, how is that legal? looks like you've got the GL sight on there at least..

offending features of grenade-launching ring removed and flash hider removed.

are you suggesting the sights are a grenade launcher in and of themselves?

smle-man 02-24-2013 7:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfletcher (Post 10627723)
Is removing just the ring sufficient? It seems to me it might remain a GL, just not one that can be aimed as intended - but it's still a functional GL. And there's the flash hider issue.

I modified the FH so a grenade can't be slipped over, lined the inside with a metal sleeve to obscure the holes on the device. I had the rear ranging flip up sight soldered in the down position so the gas system can't be used to launch a grenade, it's not visible. I think between eliminating the mounting of the grenade, eliminating the gas required to propel it and modifying the FH I'm fine. I think these changes, neither permanent nor visible, may keep the C & R status even though that's not my primary goal.

I think someone could make a few $$$ re-threading 30 caliber brakes for use on the MAS 49/56. Having a muzzle device that is clearly not a flash hider and prevents mounting of a grenade seems to me the best way to remove doubt as to legality in CA.

I enlarged the diameter of my FH so a rifle grenade could not slip over it but be aware that when I spoke with DOJ about the modification they said any muzzle device that reduces the flash in any measurable way , even 1%, is considered a flash hider. They invited me to be the court test case on this but I declined. I guess the only way to be completely sure is to shoot the rifle with the modified device and without and measure the amount of flash in each configuration.

Zedrek 02-24-2013 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mj1 (Post 10620223)
Is that supposed to be funny? You must be from the failed public school system that no longer teaches real history and never heard of the An Khe pass then. I stood there in 1967 reading the head stones of a whole French battalion that died almost to the last man rather than give up. How about the 250,000 who marched to the Somme and never returned. Not so funny. I don't have a lot going for the French today but show some respect even if you don't know why.

Do you need a hug? I didn't learn a damn thing in my public high school history class but I do have a keen interest in the Vietnam "Conflict" and own over 100 books on the subject. I am well aware of their sacrifices. I was merely making a joke in reference to the commonly held sayings of today's society much as one would say in reference to Polish idiots and Irish alcoholics.

metalliman545 02-24-2013 9:01 AM

At the shooting range, did yall take turns dropping the rifles and sprinting to the cars?
I hope there were plenty of sticks and white flags! Ahahahha.

glennsche 02-24-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guncollector (Post 10629119)
offending features of grenade-launching ring removed and flash hider removed.

are you suggesting the sights are a grenade launcher in and of themselves?

i aint suggestin' sheeeut.

my collection up till now has had nothing grenade launchery so i'm trying to learn as much as i can about it becuase i'd very much like to have a rifle more or less like the one you posted.

glennsche 02-24-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zedrek (Post 10629268)
Do you need a hug? I didn't learn a damn thing in my public high school history class but I do have a keen interest in the Vietnam "Conflict" and own over 100 books on the subject. I am well aware of their sacrifices. I was merely making a joke in reference to the commonly held sayings of today's society much as one would say in reference to Polish idiots and Irish alcoholics.

so you're making jokes about derogatory stereotypes.

if you made a joke about blacks eatin fried chicken and watermelon and jews about pinching pennies do you think you would have fared better?

cmon sir... you make a blanket statement joke, you're gonna get flamed.

"mexicans are lazy!"
"blacks are all criminals!"
"scots/jews are cheapskates!"
"irish/poles/russians are all drunks!"
"french are all cowards!"
"italians are all corrupt!"
"republicans are all jesus lovin' douchebags!"


see how this works?

Root66 02-24-2013 1:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WnP (Post 10620891)
I believe you have to remove the entire grenade launcher system. The majority of people in other states won't do that.

I have tried on several occasions to get out-of-state sellers to deal with the GL...even offered to pay local gunsmiths but, sofar, nobody wants to go the extra mile for a sale.

dfletcher 02-24-2013 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smle-man (Post 10629232)
I enlarged the diameter of my FH so a rifle grenade could not slip over it but be aware that when I spoke with DOJ about the modification they said any muzzle device that reduces the flash in any measurable way , even 1%, is considered a flash hider. They invited me to be the court test case on this but I declined. I guess the only way to be completely sure is to shoot the rifle with the modified device and without and measure the amount of flash in each configuration.

A wise and judicious approach. ;)

dfletcher 02-24-2013 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guncollector (Post 10628757)
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0d75bf4f.jpg

I'll play. Here's my CA-Legal MAS 49/56--low investment, high-quality, compact but hard-hitting, and expensive-to-feed (unless you reload). What's there not to love?

I found an original MAS 1962 recoil pad, helps me with length of pull. The KVAR side mount is great but high. I used an Enfield sniper repro cheek piece, mated and bolted (I know, sacrilege) to the stock for a nice cheek weld. I went with an early 1960's Bushnell scope because it has a baked enamel finish, seems like an OK "period correct" match.

I keep meaning to try some sort of Mosin bolt on brake, something that fits properly, will look correct & prevent GL use but haven't quite gotten around to it.

Does anyone know the muzzle threading specs of the MAS 49/56?

Emdawg 02-24-2013 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smle-man (Post 10629232)
I enlarged the diameter of my FH so a rifle grenade could not slip over it but be aware that when I spoke with DOJ about the modification they said any muzzle device that reduces the flash in any measurable way , even 1%, is considered a flash hider. They invited me to be the court test case on this but I declined. I guess the only way to be completely sure is to shoot the rifle with the modified device and without and measure the amount of flash in each configuration.

???:confused: So my Jungle Carbine is an assault weapon or something like that?

Mustang 02-24-2013 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emdawg (Post 10634015)
???:confused: So my Jungle Carbine is an assault weapon or something like that?

I think it is only a problem on Semi's

Emdawg 02-24-2013 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang (Post 10634045)
I think it is only a problem on Semi's

Ridiculous.

dfletcher 02-24-2013 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emdawg (Post 10634015)
???:confused: So my Jungle Carbine is an assault weapon or something like that?

I think the answer given, here and by DOJ, was within the context of the MAS 49/56 and semi auto, centerfire rifles with detachable magazines - not bolt action rifles.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:08 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.