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-   -   Will I get kicked off the skeet field if I have a red-dot? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=704413)

BigFatGuy 02-15-2013 10:18 AM

Will I get kicked off the skeet field if I have a red-dot?
 
If you've seen me shoot skeet with my 590 you know I don't look down the top of the barrel when shooting skeet, the stock just doesn't fit me well enough.

I'd like to put a red-dot on for use with slugs/buckshot. I dont' want to remove it every time i shoot skeet.

Assuming I'm not in a tournament, will they get pissy if I have a red-dot turned off on top of my shotgun?

I have no issue getting teased (used to that at the clinics already). ;-)

alfred1222 02-15-2013 10:35 AM

you'll probably get guys giving you funny looks, but i wouldnt ask you to not play in my party. idc how people have their guns configured, that isnt my business

ScottB 02-15-2013 10:50 AM

Depends on the range. Most frown on tactical shotguns, but red dots can be a training aid - debatable as to how effective, but I have seen them used that way.

edgerly779 02-15-2013 10:59 AM

As long as it is not tactical configured with barrel shorter than 20" your fine.

MA5177 02-15-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatGuy (Post 10542626)
If you've seen me shoot skeet with my 590 you know I don't look down the top of the barrel when shooting skeet, the stock just doesn't fit me well enough.

I'd like to put a red-dot on for use with slugs/buckshot. I dont' want to remove it every time i shoot skeet.

Assuming I'm not in a tournament, will they get pissy if I have a red-dot turned off on top of my shotgun?

I have no issue getting teased (used to that at the clinics already). ;-)

Why not just leave the 590 stock for home defense and buy a skeet only gun, I can't see any benefit to having a red dot on a 590 shooting buckshot.

fennecfrank 02-15-2013 11:15 AM

As long as you gun has the minimum length that the range requires, you're good. However, I doubt if you'll hit anything with a red dot.....

for clay shooting, some people completely removed all the sights (front and mid) from their shotgun so they can concentrate on the target.

BonnieB 02-15-2013 11:41 AM

You probably won't hit much, shooting skeet or trap with a short barrel.

It really sounds like you need to have the shotgun fitted to you, if you can't look down the barrel.

You may need a thick skin, because the old guys at the range who have been shooting trap for 40 years will be snickering at you if you bring a tactical gun to the trap range.

stephewc 02-15-2013 2:56 PM

Shooting with a short barrel is generally not too much of a problem. I used to shoot skeet with pump and a 20" cylinder barrel, which is about as bare minimum as it gets.

The only issue I see with the red dot is that you may block your view of the front of the gun. While you shouldn't be looking/staring at the front sight post, it is still something you use to figure out your lead from the clay.

savannah 02-15-2013 3:06 PM

A short barrel is generally used for skeet, for trap you use a longer barrel.

I think what you shoot and what people think really doesn't matter much. I have gone out to our skeet fields and seen everything under the sun being shot out there. If you are safe and within the rules of your particular range, most people don't care as long as your having fun.

Know that you may answer a few questions about your red dot, but don't worry. Go and have fun.

I shoot a 26" barrel for skeet and sporting clays. 31.5" barrel is what I use for trap. I was using a 28" at one time for trap because that is all I had. My Beretta was a good versatile gun and it went shooting trap, skeet, sporting clays and five stand.

nothinghere2c 02-15-2013 3:34 PM

I got a few funny looks when I took out my 870 with pistol grip stock and my ghetto zombie related spray painted decals on it ...

but really... Who cares? If you're having fun shooting skeet with it and the rules of the range don't prohibit it, enjoy!

Captain Dick 02-15-2013 5:09 PM

BFG shoots at the clinics regularly, and does great with that HD gun on the skeet field.

We won't kick you off, but you might get laughed off when that device is right in the center of your vision and you can't hit anything.

Coach might not like it, but I'd let you do it just because I think it might be entertaining to watch;).

NoNOS67 02-15-2013 5:33 PM

A few years back, a friend of mine brought his pistol gripped Maverick (with a cyl bore 18" barrel) to the range and shot a couple rounds of trap with me. Got a few funny looks, but who cares. It was priceless to see everyone's reaction after he out shot the guys with the blinders and $5k plus trap guns! As long as the club/range allows it, do your thing!

appagohm 02-16-2013 1:32 AM

lol i tried the whole red dot thing, i actually had two guns, one tatical short barrel shotgun, mossberg 500. And a single barrel shotgun to shoot skeet. Well i tried shooting skeet with the tac mossberg with red dot.

I couldn't hit anything, the red dot got in the way. Would have had a better chance firing from the hip.

BigFatGuy 02-16-2013 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by appagohm (Post 10550806)
I couldn't hit anything, the red dot got in the way. Would have had a better chance firing from the hip.

I hadn't considered it would get in the way... They look so unobtrusive when using them for aiming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MA5177 (Post 10543092)
Why not just leave the 590 stock for home defense and buy a skeet only gun, I can't see any benefit to having a red dot on a 590 shooting buckshot.

The benefit is the 20 full days of skeet I can shoot for the cost of a skeet gun that I wouldn't have money to shoot skeet with.

fennecfrank 02-17-2013 12:01 PM

You can always rent guns at the range.

Khanan 02-18-2013 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieB (Post 10543481)
You probably won't hit much, shooting skeet or trap with a short barrel.


I have witnessed him shooting this 20" barreled monstrosity. It look like a toy when a 6'5' man that would intimidate a lot of pro football players is carrying it on the skeet field.

But don't you think for a second that he can't hit anything with it. He could compete and win in skeet tournaments with that gun. Doubles? No problem. Doubles at 3, 4, and 5, no problem. He racks that gun and gets the shots off as fast as me with my O/U.

BFG,

I don't think they would kick you off the field but we will continue to razz you about it. ;-) I do think that the red dot would get in your way of seeing the bird though and then I would have to take back all those nice things I said about you up there.

Meety Peety 02-18-2013 9:17 AM

I doubt anyone will ask you to leave, they'll just laugh at you and make fun of you. Most of it will probably be behind your back anyway, so what do you care. If you're good with the setup use it.. and if you're good enough try to shark some of the laughers and win some money :) They will accept the challenge believe me..

Cheezle56 02-18-2013 10:59 AM

Why would a range discriminate against tactical shotguns, why should they care how the gun looks? Almost every time I go to burro, there's somebody with a Benelli M4. Personally, I say use whatever you want so long as the gun remains safe to handle(ie dont use the stockless PG if you cant maintain muzzle control like in those youtube vids) Years back I used to go to Prado Olympic shooting park, until they told me I couldn't use my 11-87 because they dont allow pistol grip stocks on their trap and skeet range. I don't go there any more, because I dont support those kinds of gun businesses. it's exactly that kind of attitude that provides anti's with the stuff to say why "tactical" shotguns have no sporting purpose.

union thug 02-18-2013 12:47 PM

I shoot skeet with an M4. Nobody laughs. That said you are trying to do too much with too little. Get a skeet gun you will be much happier. If this seems like a contradiction it is. I have a skeet gun... The M4 makes me happy and it makes other people nervous. It is a win-win.

TZL 02-18-2013 1:38 PM

You won't get made fun of if you shoot a 25, shoot sub 15 and I would make a few cracks :D

k1dude 02-18-2013 1:39 PM

I'd love to show up for skeet with a Kel-Tec KSG or a UTAS UTS-15!!! Just to see the reactions would be priceless.

Nahuatl 02-18-2013 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatGuy (Post 10542626)
If you've seen me shoot skeet with my 590 you know I don't look down the top of the barrel when shooting skeet, the stock just doesn't fit me well enough.

I'd like to put a red-dot on for use with slugs/buckshot. I dont' want to remove it every time i shoot skeet.

Assuming I'm not in a tournament, will they get pissy if I have a red-dot turned off on top of my shotgun?

I have no issue getting teased (used to that at the clinics already). ;-)

I'm vexed by some of the answers you received. There are a bunch of things anyone who's used an e-sight much can't help but notice look very incomplete or just plain wrong.

Here's a few observations from experience with both the Eotech and the Aimpoint on a snake-barreled 24" Mossburg 935 hammering scores of coyotes and winning a couple of friendly contests along the way. By the way, that's with 3.5" 2.5 oz loads #4 buck, the hardest recoiling stuff on the planet, somewhere between .458WM and .460Weatherby. If anything were going to shake loose, that ought to do it, and it did. If anything were going to break, that ought to do it, and it didn't.

First, look at the pic rail on top of the receiver. The front screws only grab three threads and had to be ground down to clear the bolt. The back screws grabbed about 6 and didn't take shortening. But think about this. With the rail on the gun, a bead or fiber sight are useless. Cheeking the gun properly, the rail completely blocks the dominant eye's view of the barrel, rib, and sight. What's left is the side view from the other eye, and it will take over and force a miss every time. So even if you remove the sight, with the rail on, you're skeetless. With just a rail, no sight, you have to turn the gun sideways and use the barrel to aim which is so ghetto.

Then add the sight. Pick one - Eotech or Aimpoint. They both have great field of view, the Eotech even bigger than the Aimpoint. Killers for sure, I kept track. I fired on 41 coyotes and picked up 40, in just a handful of days, which is the deadliest average I've ever shot hunting through decades of this stuff. Put the dot on the coyote's nose at any speed, running in any direction, at ranges out to 55 or so, and pull the trigger. Dead coyote. Sure there were some follow ups and rundowns because this was after all, hunting, not skeeting. I think I fired more than a hundred shells to pick up 40. I kept shooting as long as any part of the coyote was still moving or even thinking about moving.

The downside - forget to turn the sight on and you might as well shoot shot into the sky. Without the dot shining brightly, there's no way to aim or hit anything, except turn the gun sideways and go ghetto. Carry an extra battery. When the Eotech starts flashing of and on, it will only work for another couple of hours, again from experience. More sky busting.

The upside - Rising shots are the bane of clays shooting with a rib or a bead or a fiber sight. A proper lead for a rising shot has the barrel blotting out the bird on the springing teal shot at sporting clays or 5-stand. Usually the shooter waits until it just peaks and hammers it there while it's hanging in mid-air. With the e-sight, you've got full field of view, even under the target, and you can shoot the teal on the rise, at the top, or on the way down. No waiting. With a coyote, think about it. Any coyote that blows by you and runs away is a rising shot. Instead of looking for the coyote running under the muzzle, with the e-sight, put dot on nose, pull trigger, dead coyote. The e-sight totally changed my score on anything rising. Nothing went unscathed.

The weird - anyone who's used an e-sight on a shotgun with the original stock comb will tell you about how your head floats up over it. You can't cheek the gun or you won't see the dot. Your head is up over the comb, moving around, not anchored to the same spot on the stock for every shot. Totally weird, and it takes a bit of adapting, but after a while who cares, because you hit everything that has the dot on it. More upside, with those big loads of buckshot, your cheek doesn't get "kissed" by the stock anymore. Your face is up and away from the thing when it goes off. Very John Wayne.

Very video game - At night, hunting in the dark, it's next to impossible to use a shotgun. Shining a light on a critter, you can't see the bead or a fiber sight and it's hard to line up even the barrel or rib. Enter the e-sight. Red dot with a green flashlight is like a video game, but even a white or red flashlight is the bomb for night shotgunning. It's a hoot. It's deadly after dark.

The ugly - I still like the slim and trim of the palm swell grip and bead or fiber sight. A slick gun cases, draws, and stores easier than any gun with a bulky sight on the top. Add that this 935 has a pistol grip and was big and bulky enough to deserve its own zip code. It was an uglymf set up this way.

I don't know much about skeets, I quit after the first 20,000 maybe 15 years ago. Clays go poof only so long. I know more about ducks over dekes, and a lot more about varmints that run by at about 30 mph, coming, going, crossing, zigging, zagging, and hopping. If you can afford it, try the Eotech. I hated the way it looked but loved the way it worked. Almost everything died. I'm leaving mine on the Mossburg.

"Will they get pissy at the range?" you asked. Of course they will. The world is full of whiners who think life should be fair and you've tilted the field with your red dot. Screw them. Kill more. I bet the Eotech makes more clays go poof than any rib or bead.

ysr_racer 02-18-2013 5:56 PM

Did somebody delete my reply?

ysr_racer 02-19-2013 6:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottB (Post 10574971)
My club doesn't permit HD shotguns because the guys that use them usually don't have a clue about range safety and they wave those stubby little barrels all over the place.

Yep, it's not the gun we're worried about, it's the mall ninja holding it.

You want to play Rambo, fine, the clay range isn't the place to do it.

Jbaker8390 02-19-2013 9:13 AM

Bigfatguy, I'd just use your set up and give it a whirl, honestly like others have said, who cares what other people think at the trap/skeet range. You paid the fee to get in and if you're following all the safety rules I don't see why anyone would discriminate. Maybe just the snooty guys will, but they don't matter anyways. The best analogy I have would be like going to some high-end golf course where you end up only bringing a Putter for everything. Is it efficient, no of course not, can you still do it, of course you can, will you have fun, most likely. As long as you're having fun that's all that matters.


i just read that you're considering a ghost-ring sight, I have one on my 870, I wasn't able to use it, it's too obstructive still, In my opinion anyways.

Let us know what you end up doing!

ysr_racer 02-19-2013 12:28 PM

How about this, can I shoot trap with skeet chokes ?

Oh the humanity :)

Kestryll 02-19-2013 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysr_racer (Post 10577625)
Yep, it's not the gun we're worried about, it's the mall ninja holding it.

You want to play Rambo, fine, the clay range isn't the place to do it.

Wow, kind of sad to see this kind of prejudice and bigotry among our own.

I would have thought that after all this time of gun owners being falsely lumped in with gang bangers and mass murderers we wouldn't do the same to other gun owners and shooters.

I own a 20" 8 shot Mossberg, I've used it for just about everything you could use a shotgun for including busting some clays.
Up until now I had no idea I was a 'Rambo-esque mall ninja' despite my debilitating lack of a head band and superfluous webbing.

No wonder it is o easy for the antis to fracture us and take us apart a piece at a time, we do it to ourselves.

MA5177 02-19-2013 3:31 PM

I think as long as you are not breaking any of the range rules who cares what the snobs think of your rig.

What is the rules for barrel length at tripple b clays?

BigFatGuy 02-19-2013 6:53 PM

at BBB's it's 20" barrel and "no pistol grip", although depending on who you ask, that either does or does not permit "tactical" shotgun stocks.

ScottB 02-19-2013 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysr_racer (Post 10573121)
Did somebody delete my reply?

Yes

and mine. Seems CGN picks and chooses which Amendments are valid too - and the First Amendment is expendable, especially when some people want keep their panties in a wad over an charge that wasn't even being made.

counting down to deletion ....

bucktooth7 02-19-2013 9:46 PM

I've found skeet shooters to be among the most friendly. Where I shoot at USI in Concord, there is lots of room for everyone from AA shooters to novices.
If you are a safe shooter that is all that is required.

RonnieP 02-20-2013 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottB (Post 10585029)
Yes

and mine. Seems CGN picks and chooses which Amendments are valid too - and the First Amendment is expendable, especially when some people want keep their panties in a wad over an charge that wasn't even being made.

counting down to deletion ....

You mean like how your gun club picks and chooses which guns fall under the 2nd Amendemnt? :rolleyes:

Gutz 02-20-2013 12:49 AM

LoL^^^


Will they kick me off if I use slugs? :D

MA5177 02-20-2013 4:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatGuy (Post 10584385)
at BBB's it's 20" barrel and "no pistol grip", although depending on who you ask, that either does or does not permit "tactical" shotgun stocks.

Sounds like you are good to go, personally if it were me I would use a regular stock for shooting clays . My Mossy HD gun has no pistol grip, I dont see a need for it other that looks.

See ya out there

Khanan 02-20-2013 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ysr_racer (Post 10573121)
Did somebody delete my reply?

I doubt this is something new to you. Why are you so surprised?

Khanan 02-20-2013 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottB (Post 10585029)
Yes

and mine. Seems CGN picks and chooses which Amendments are valid too - and the First Amendment is expendable, especially when some people want keep their panties in a wad over an charge that wasn't even being made.

counting down to deletion ....

:facepalm:

Seriously? A privately owned forum has no obligation under the First Amendment to let you spew your hatred of some types of gun owners all over the place.

Last I checked this forum is specifically dedicated to California firearms owners. Why would it want or stand for pissing contests over who has the prettiest gun? Why would it let anyone spew hatred on another firearms owner for no reason other than owning a firearm that looks different than yours? With this kind of solidarity among firearms owners, no wonder we have to worry about the Second Amendment being vacated by the gun grabbers.

ysr_racer 02-20-2013 7:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khanan (Post 10588550)
I doubt this is something new to you. Why are you so surprised?

Oh, I don't know, something about listening to all sides of a discussion before forming an opinion.

guns4life 02-20-2013 7:32 AM

LOL, I watched a guy pull a brand new mossberg 500 26-28"(didn't ask) out of the box for the first time and proceed to lay waste to a bunch of old dudes with custom trap/skeet guns and all the gear...we were laughing our asses off. It doesn't matter what you shoot, it's the result that counts.



The 500 was having issues too and the shooter was a novice and needed help on top of it. It was awesome

sdkelly85 02-20-2013 7:43 AM

The guys laughing at you for shooting a tactical shotgun are the same guys laughing at you for putting rims on a car, having tattoos, and listening to whatever 80's+ music you listen to. Old guys who are stuck in their ways.

jamespres2001 02-20-2013 7:59 AM

Kicked off , no. Laughed off , maybe. Some ranges have a minimum barrel length of 24". You will probably be distracted by the outer ring while tracking the bird. Try it.


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