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-   -   Use caution on sales (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=701591)

sbrookman 02-11-2013 12:45 PM

Use caution on sales
 
Just a heads up. Was contacted yesterday by a potential buyer who asked no details. He started with "Is the FIREARM still available?" and in the same message, offered to PAYPAL me the money plus 3% . He advised he was out of town working but said he lived in a town 5 miles from me. He then stated we could meet this week at a local shop for paperwork. When I advised him I didn't do PAYPAL, but would hold it for a few days to meet in person, all communication ended. I Looked into his status and he was,a new member as of 3 weeks. Just a warning,before I retired from L.E., I saw a lot of this from Craigslist and am a little alarmed it is startingon here. Just be cautioned!

Arisaka 02-11-2013 12:51 PM

I don't think I get it, do you think he was trying to steal it?

HOGLEG 02-11-2013 12:54 PM

CASH ONLY! Meet FTF at FFL.

xOperator 02-11-2013 12:54 PM

I think it someone who had access to a stolent credit card, and was going to use paypal with it and/or was going to make an attempt to steal it from him

sbrookman 02-11-2013 1:44 PM

That or a very common one is they will cancel or dispute the payment after getting you to ship your item. Took dozens of those reports. Like I said. Very suspicious but not certain, so I won't bash the user name.

xrayoneone 02-11-2013 1:49 PM

Sound advice. Also check any currency you receive to make sure it is not counterfeit. Same goes for money orders. If you do take a check wait several days for it to clear. Remember POSTED and CLEARED are two different things.

tradecraft 02-11-2013 1:54 PM

So basically you are afraid of PayPal payments? I dont understand what this warning is all about.

Apec 02-11-2013 2:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottschoe (Post 10499491)
So basically you are afraid of PayPal payments? I dont understand what this warning is all about.

This.

I don't get what the fuss is about either. You are meeting in person for a PPT, it's not like you're going to ship the gun without going through a FFL.

TML 02-11-2013 2:07 PM

If PayPal is not porn friendly, I'm tempted to say that they are not firearm friendly either. Something about the first and second amendment that nobody likes but us weirdos.

WinstonMonty 02-11-2013 2:12 PM

So just do a discreet PayPal with no mention of guns...

thaiphob25 02-11-2013 2:16 PM

You guys are missing the point.

It is common paypal scam when people pay using paypal and then take possession of the item. Once they have the item in hand they go back and file a claim with paypal that the item was not recived and then paypal would take the money out of your account.

Apec 02-11-2013 2:23 PM

Then request it as a personal/gift payment. Can't recall or dispute a gift/personal payment. And don't put in any comments in the payment, let alone anything related to guns.

Besides, that would be the stupidest thing to do...paypal scam someone on a gun that's going through a PPT? Their information is going to be taken by the FFL. Scammers operate on anonymity - which just isn't possible here. Maybe if it were a state that didn't require a FFL to process it, but even then people have the option to take copies of IDs and write bills of sale.

sh1nk3n 02-11-2013 2:32 PM

This was attempted fraud. The fraudster is insistent that you give him your Paypal email address so he can send you a Paypal Transfer. He then sends you a phishing email that appears to be from Paypal that asks you to log in, and if you click through and log in, the fraudster then has your email address and your password. He then logs into Paypal using your login information and buys himself something nice. With your money.

rman 02-11-2013 2:35 PM

another scam I've run into is they will email a copy of the paypal notification email, so it looks like PayPal is telling you they sent the funds.

I've had some international people do that, I told them my name was "insert funny genital slang here" and they actually emailed me saying

"@#$^%$^"
So and so has just sent you $1050. Blah blah blah.

It was classic.

Oldmandan 02-11-2013 2:38 PM

There's also a chance he couldn't afford it, and Paypal lets him make payments to them for 0% over 6 months.

sbrookman 02-11-2013 2:43 PM

I guess maybe the fact that as soon as I refused paypal but stated I would meet in person, he disappeared. There was also much more including a bogus phone number (disconnected) and a few more. Just giving a heads up, I have personally seen these scams and the way they work. But from reading a few of the responses, I guess I am just not as intellectual as some so what do I know.

tradecraft 02-11-2013 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sh1nk3n (Post 10499918)
This was attempted fraud. The fraudster is insistent that you give him your Paypal email address so he can send you a Paypal Transfer. He then sends you a phishing email that appears to be from Paypal that asks you to log in, and if you click through and log in, the fraudster then has your email address and your password. He then logs into Paypal using your login information and buys himself something nice. With your money.

You guys are grasping at straws here.

TainoWarrior 02-11-2013 2:51 PM

Sbrookman Thanks for the heads up that becoming more of a common scam.

FitzFinance 02-11-2013 2:53 PM

I have also ran into this with buyers for cycling parts. They want your email and info to gain access to accounts. I bet he was going to ask for you to ship even though he suposedly lived close. No problem taking PayPal with PPT, but caution with shipping. Wait extra until funds clear to bank and provide tracking.

North Bay Guy 02-11-2013 3:00 PM

I get what your saying but when I joined, my first was a WTB thread. I found what I was look for within 48 hours, met up, bought and DROS'ed. I'm sure there's a lot of good people who join to specifically search for or sell a gun.
Maybe a small amount of people looking to scam people aswell. I alway meet inside of a LGS.

Snafoo 02-11-2013 3:07 PM

Thats nothing. I once put a handgun up for sale and had a guy ask to do a "off the records" transfer.

It aint like these guys are smooth or anything...

CaliforniaSon 02-11-2013 4:21 PM

Thanks for the heads up and looking out!

keoni_taylor 02-11-2013 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbrookman (Post 10498834)
Just a heads up. Was contacted yesterday by a potential buyer who asked no details. He started with "Is the FIREARM still available?" and in the same message, offered to PAYPAL me the money plus 3% . He advised he was out of town working but said he lived in a town 5 miles from me. He then stated we could meet this week at a local shop for paperwork. When I advised him I didn't do PAYPAL, but would hold it for a few days to meet in person, all communication ended. I Looked into his status and he was,a new member as of 3 weeks. Just a warning,before I retired from L.E., I saw a lot of this from Craigslist and am a little alarmed it is startingon here. Just be cautioned!

What do you have against paypal? Its a safe way to take and render a payment; if your buyer wants to submit payment, you can send him an invoice for the amount. He pays, you have your money, then you meet at a local shop.

Maybe he didn't have the cash and wanted to pay with credit card, paypal would be his best bet.

I have taken paypal payments by sending an invoice, buyers sending payment as goods, and scanning their credit cards with my phone reader at the local gun store when we did the PPT.

Might be time to step your game up and accept other forms of payment.

If you use paypal, the buyer can pay how ever he chooses and both the buyer and seller are protected.

Just beware of and know how to identify a phishing scam.

WinstonMonty 02-11-2013 4:47 PM

Also, people that are claiming phishing emails and such. Is it that hard to pull up your own web page, go to your PayPal account and see if the money is in your account or not? If no money and you have an email, then you know it was fraud. I never check the emails from PayPal. I always just log in from a new web page. Been using PayPal for like 10 years, and not one issue.

Eric B 02-11-2013 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keoni_taylor (Post 10501359)
What do you have against paypal? Its a safe way to take and render a payment; if your buyer wants to submit payment, you can send him an invoice for the amount. He pays, you have your money, then you meet at a local shop.

Maybe he didn't have the cash and wanted to pay with credit card, paypal would be his best bet.

I have taken paypal payments by sending an invoice, buyers sending payment as goods, and scanning their credit cards with my phone reader at the local gun store when we did the PPT.

Might be time to step your game up and accept other forms of payment.

If you use paypal, the buyer can pay how ever he chooses and both the buyer and seller are protected.

Just beware of and know how to identify a phishing scam.


This is the problem.

Their policy strictly forbids firearms, firearms parts and ammunition sales. They will lock up your account if it's discovered. Sometimes buyers get a little dimwitted and put info about the purchase in the transaction. Crawlers can flag certain words and cause a freeze. Why chance it?

keoni_taylor 02-11-2013 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric B (Post 10501496)
This is the problem.

Their policy strictly forbids firearms, firearms parts and ammunition sales. They will lock up your account if it's discovered. Sometimes buyers get a little dimwitted and put info about the purchase in the transaction. Crawlers can flag certain words and cause a freeze. Why chance it?

Okay: Make the payment applicable for everything that is allowed by paypal.

for example: If I wanted top sell you a shotgun and you wanted to pay using paypal. I could take payment for every part minus the receiver. Requires a little trust between buyer and seller.

Work it out when you meet face to face. Not a hard concept to grasp...

I am sure two people can figure out a "loop hole" to remain in compliance with paypal policy"

You do not need to list what goods you are purchasing... Have you ever seen the show "Carwash"?

I guy was selling a bong for $3000 that came with a pound or marijuana so he wouldn't be considered a drug dealer....

Grumpyoldretiredcop 02-11-2013 5:29 PM

The OP is right on track, this was a scam attempt; whether it was the "I got the goods but I'll tell PayPal that I didn't" or the identity theft version is not important.

Friends don't let friends use PayPal and thereby support their anti-gun position. Want to buy a firearm that I'm selling on Calguns? Show up face to face and pay cash. If I ever sell a firearm on Gunbroker, USPS Money Orders only (which can be easily verified by phone) and I'll ship it to your FFL after he sends me a signed in ink copy of his license.

David13 02-11-2013 5:32 PM

I am always super careful when I sell anything.
There are thieves, scam artists, etc.
I only like legitimate interested buyers. Who identify themself and have the money to buy.
And who have decided on the item I am selling. I don't need Lookie Lews.
dc

Eric B 02-11-2013 5:35 PM

Lawyers will get every time...
Quote:

Firearm parts, including but not limited to receivers and frames, silencers, and kits designed to modify guns so that they fire automatically. High capacity magazines, multi-burst trigger activators, and camouflaging firearm containers are other items in this category.
They can change the rules on the fly when it comes to FA related items. That being said, I do use PayPal. I have been for years. Back and forth communication between buyer and seller can show you a rat pretty well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keoni_taylor (Post 10501785)
Okay: Make the payment applicable for everything that is allowed by paypal.

for example: If I wanted top sell you a shotgun and you wanted to pay using paypal. I could take payment for every part minus the receiver. Requires a little trust between buyer and seller.

Work it out when you meet face to face. Not a hard concept to grasp...

I am sure two people can figure out a "loop hole" to remain in compliance with paypal policy"

You do not need to list what goods you are purchasing... Have you ever seen the show "Carwash"?

I guy was selling a bong for $3000 that came with a pound or marijuana so he wouldn't be considered a drug dealer....


626Tony 02-11-2013 5:43 PM

i always do my homework on people I am in socal and like to talk to people on the phone first before I paypal for LPK's and such in Nor Cal and I try to keep away from new members close to me for doing that stuff CASH ONLY FOR THEM F2F. For trusted friends just deposit to BofA or any large bank and theres your receipt no paypal fees or crap like that and u get a paper trail in case SHTF

BlackCatRacing#13 02-11-2013 5:52 PM

WoW :facepalm: ~
what happened with this Thread ?? is anybody Reading the Original Post ?? The Email He Received and they Way they React means This is a SCAM :eek: !~!

626Tony 02-11-2013 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCatRacing#13 (Post 10502175)
WoW :facepalm: ~
what happened with this Thread ?? is anybody Reading the Original Post ?? The Email He Received and they Way they React means This is a SCAM :eek: !~!

I know if it sounds fishy ..like you live in LA and they want to Paypal for a firearm and u live in Long Beach ...ummmm NOPE sorry!

wpage 02-12-2013 1:52 PM

Better to use the Chase method no restrictions on legit transactions.

6TSicks 02-12-2013 2:15 PM

If it hasn't already been mentioned, don't use the paypal gift option as payment if you actually want any recourse in a transaction gone wrong. Paypal will not cover "Gift" payments when it was suppose to be a no fee "Gift" and not a personal transaction requiring them to now "refund" your money. Just a heads up...

diveRN 02-12-2013 2:41 PM

Yep. Scam. Or an ignorant phishing attempt to buy a gun on the down-low from an equally ignorant seller who would do it.

I horse-trade on my local craigslist all the time for various things. I get more scam and fraud attempts by far, than I do legitimate buyers.

Email from Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, or such anon accounts are almost always BS. If I smell a scam coming from an actual ISP email account (SBC, Comcast, etc), I'll usually report it because they can be tracked fairly easily.

Do your due diligence and then ignore it.

Jetz 02-12-2013 3:30 PM

It's definitely a scam, I've seen this dozens of times on craigslist.

orangeusa 02-12-2013 3:33 PM

I bought a gun that way when I was visiting Europe and saw this awesome deal. And I got it.. :)

Maybe itrader rating helps......

Zerorye351w 02-12-2013 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apec (Post 10499840)
Then request it as a personal/gift payment. Can't recall or dispute a gift/personal payment. And don't put in any comments in the payment, let alone anything related to guns.

Besides, that would be the stupidest thing to do...paypal scam someone on a gun that's going through a PPT? Their information is going to be taken by the FFL. Scammers operate on anonymity - which just isn't possible here. Maybe if it were a state that didn't require a FFL to process it, but even then people have the option to take copies of IDs and write bills of sale.

This isn't exactly true. I had a person pay part with Paypal Gift and the rest FTF cash, then disputed the transaction because he didn't recognize the charge on their account. I'm still awaiting Paypal to release my money, even though the person that paid with Paypal and myself did a three way call with Paypal letting them know that the charge was correct.

balgor 02-12-2013 4:00 PM

OP is absolutely correct that this "buyer" is most likely a scammer. Paypal "seller protection" requires that you provide them with a tracking # to verify delivery. There is no tracking# FTF, so they can file a not received or a Significantly not as described complaint and they will win it w/o a tracking#.

Quinc 02-12-2013 4:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrayoneone (Post 10499439)
Sound advice. Also check any currency you receive to make sure it is not counterfeit. Same goes for money orders. If you do take a check wait several days for it to clear. Remember POSTED and CLEARED are two different things.

MO are the same way unless you get a USPS money order and cash it at the USPS.


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