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-   -   Ar10 gas system; worth trying to go with a piston system or DI?? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=697454)

found.a.wall 02-06-2013 1:06 AM

Ar10 gas system; worth trying to go with a piston system or DI??
 
:confused: I'm going to be building an AR10 (my very 1st build), I am set on a gas piston system. Looking to know if anyone has, know where I can purchase, refer me to info, on a gas piston system for this rifle? Is it worth it??:confused:

I have an ADAMS ARMS AR15 with a piston system and I love it!! I'm sure its a personal preference, but as of right now, I'm just weighing my options.

I believe my lower is going to be an 80% DPMS that I'm machining out (whenever it comes in).

Would like an experienced opinion from both sides of the argument.

Thanks

Jpach 02-06-2013 1:15 AM

What are you going to do with the rifle? And why is the whole adjustable/single shot style even a consideration? Tell us more.

found.a.wall 02-06-2013 2:14 AM

I currently am just a target shooter. This will probably be my long distance rifle. I haven't made a final decision what it'll be used for as of yet.

I just like the challenge of working with my hands and building things. This is one of those things that I can truely say that I built it myself (more or less...).
In reguards to the adjustable/single shot style, my ADAMS AR15 has it, and was just throwing it out there as part of my considerations. To have one of these "hot rods" of either caliber in a single shot is kinda lame, but hey, to each their own. Variety is the spice of life, and I don't want to limit my available options.
Also I don't know what kind of, and how many options are out there right now.

FMJBT 02-06-2013 7:52 AM

I'd go DI with an adjustable gas block like JP or SYRAC. DI tends to be more accurate than piston setups for the most part. I would imagine even more so on a 308, where the bolt carrier assembly is so much heavier than a 5.56. The piston pushing against that heavy carrier would be even more prone to side loading the barrel under recoil.

SoCalXD 02-06-2013 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by found.a.wall (Post 10441105)
:confused: I'm going to be building an AR10 (my very 1st build), I am set on a gas piston system. Looking to know if anyone has, know where I can purchase, refer me to info, on a gas piston system for this rifle? Is it worth it??:confused:

I have an ADAMS ARMS AR15 with a piston system and I love it!! I'm sure its a personal preference, but as of right now, I'm just weighing my options.

I believe my lower is going to be an 80% DPMS that I'm machining out (whenever it comes in).

Would like an experienced opinion from both sides of the argument.

Thanks

Newbie, Since you are "set" on a piston, why are you asking us to spend our time providing you with white paper debate on the pros and cons, which you can easily find by using the search engine here, as well as at arfdotcom, youtube, and a dozen other web publications? Heck, Guns and Ammo ran that as their center piece article a few months ago! The extra grand you spend on a piston LR308 should serve your lazy nature quite well, as you might get away with never cleaning it. :facepalm:

Note to self: drink coffee before posting on newbie threads.

Justintoxicated 02-06-2013 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMJBT (Post 10442034)
I'd go DI with an adjustable gas block like JP or SYRAC. DI tends to be more accurate than piston setups for the most part. I would imagine even more so on a 308, where the bolt carrier assembly is so much heavier than a 5.56. The piston pushing against that heavy carrier would be even more prone to side loading the barrel under recoil.

if only SYRAC would make am adjustable block for a thicker barrel, then it would work with a target barreled 308..

joelogic 02-06-2013 8:10 AM

Adjustable gas block side charger.

FMJBT 02-06-2013 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated (Post 10442169)
if only SYRAC would make am adjustable block for a thicker barrel, then it would work with a target barreled 308..


Not a SYRAC, but this would be my pick for an adjustable block on a bull barrel:

http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detai...86679&CAT=4822

PRI makes some very nice stuff.

five.five-six 02-06-2013 9:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMJBT (Post 10442034)
I'd go DI with an adjustable gas block like JP or SYRAC. DI tends to be more accurate than piston setups for the most part. I would imagine even more so on a 308, where the bolt carrier assembly is so much heavier than a 5.56. The piston pushing against that heavy carrier would be even more prone to side loading the barrel under recoil.

Why not just build a FAL?

Red Devil 02-06-2013 9:05 AM

Pretty happy w/ my gas-piston system, very reliable and low maintenance...


...course, it's on a M1 Garand. :D

FMJBT 02-06-2013 9:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by five.five-six (Post 10442603)
Why not just build a FAL?


The words "FAL" and "Long range accuracy" are typically not found strung together in the same sentence. :D

five.five-six 02-06-2013 9:12 AM

Then a HK 91 platform rifle.


Putting DI on a stoner is like buying a new chevy and installing a ford motor.

FMJBT 02-06-2013 9:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by five.five-six (Post 10442692)
Then a HK 91 platform rifle.


Putting DI on a stoner is like buying a new chevy and installing a ford motor.

Ummmm..... You do realize that one of the largest identifying characteristics of Eugene Stoner's rifles is the DI gas system, right?


The HK roller locking rifles are actually quite capable as far as accuracy. When properly constructed, they are one of the few truly free floated semi auto designs, as they dont use any gas system past the fluted chamber. Having said that, the AR platform is a lot easier to build into an accurate 308 than the HK platform. Parts are a lot cheaper, and there are a lot more to choose from. Finding a decent match grade barrel for an AR is also much easier than finding one for an HK. I carried a torch for the HK rifles for a long time. As I found myself blocked at every turn when trying to build an accurized long range variant of the design though, I gradually came to see the light. ;)

found.a.wall 02-06-2013 11:42 AM

SoCalXD what I want is that, what I end up doing may be different. It's not lazy to want to spend less time cleaning my rifle; hell, I spend quite a bit of time cleaning my ar15 EVERY time I fire it. Just trying to get info on what others have, have used, prefer (obviously opinions differ). I have done some research, on the topic, so I'm NOT asking this question with 100% ignorance. I like having other people's input so I can make a well informed decision when the time comes. I was in aware that guns and ammo ran this story, I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate it!!

Josh3239 02-06-2013 12:16 PM

The DI is a type of piston. It is inline, self regulating, lightweight, inexpensive, and no parts to maintain. Converting a "DI" to a "piston" really just means you are converting an inline piston system to an off set piston with actuator/operating rod.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish but the gun will do the same thing with or without an operating rod.

Jpach 02-06-2013 3:50 PM

If you want precision, go DI.

ar15barrels 02-06-2013 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by found.a.wall (Post 10444036)
what I want is that

Gas pistons are for battle rifles.
Direct impingement is more accurate.
If you just want a rifle with more recoil, the gas piston is what you need.
If you want to hit smaller targets at longer distances, then you want direct impingement or even a bolt gun.

Fal's are gas piston operated.
Get one of those.

I have not cleaned my 3 gun for about 2500 rounds.
All you have to do to keep a direct impingement AR running is add some oil before each day of shooting.
Cleaning is not as necessary as people would make you believe.

Haplo 02-06-2013 8:48 PM

I've always believed that whether a rifle is DI or Piston does not itself affect accuracy. Is there a link to some testing that says otherwise?

C.G. 02-06-2013 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haplo (Post 10449315)
I've always believed that whether a rifle is DI or Piston does not itself affect accuracy. Is there a link to some testing that says otherwise?

As stated above, DI is in line and Piston is not, which plays with barrel harmonics.

Here is a video by David Sams, who builds target guns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v57gQ4-VEYw

FMJBT 02-06-2013 9:53 PM

IBT"B...BOBLWTOWAPG"PGFBC

(In Before The "But...But Osama Bin Laden Was Taken Out With A Piston Gun" Piston Gun Fan Boy Crowd)

ar15barrels 02-06-2013 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haplo (Post 10449315)
I've always believed that whether a rifle is DI or Piston does not itself affect accuracy. Is there a link to some testing that says otherwise?

The gas piston sits up on top of the barrel.
When the gas pressure hits the piston, it slaps the carrier rearward and the barrel downward.
Piston guns string shots vertically.

I don't have some elegant link to send you to, but I have seen it with my own eyes in the precision rifle training classes I have organized when people showed up with piston guns.

INFAMOUS762X39 02-06-2013 11:10 PM

Just doing some reading on Stoner's AR-10. The original 4 prototypes all had an adjustable gas system. In the fourth and final prototype, the upper and lower receiver were hinged with the now-familiar hinge and takedown pins.

found.a.wall 02-07-2013 9:37 PM

good info from everyone!! Thanks you. And a special thanks for the Link that was posted for the difference between piston and di, good to have a visual to go along with it!!!!!


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