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-   -   Shot Grouping to the left / Training Suggestions? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=690349)

echopapa 01-28-2013 11:17 AM

Shot Grouping to the left / Training Suggestions?
 
I'm still a relatively new shooter (Lifetime round count probably around 1K - started 3 months ago). I've been consistently shooting left, slightly down. Looking at some of the forum threads, it suggests i'm shooting w/ too little trigger finger - not sure what that means. I can get a 2" group at about 15 yards. This has been happening on my SR22, P229 and 1911 9mm. Been shooting with 115 GR Federal Bulk. Any suggestions?

Anyone recommend good training courses in the Sac area? I'd like to improve my accuracy.


Thanks guys!!

Whiterabbit 01-28-2013 11:20 AM

move the sights.

zippo 01-28-2013 11:23 AM

use google...pistol correction chart...

may be it will help for what wrong

ElDub1950 01-28-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echopapa (Post 10347092)
I'm still a relatively new shooter (Lifetime round count probably around 1K - started 3 months ago). I've been consistently shooting left, slightly down. Looking at some of the forum threads, it suggests i'm shooting w/ too little trigger finger - not sure what that means. I can get a 2" group at about 15 yards. This has been happening on my SR22, P229 and 1911 9mm. Been shooting with 115 GR Federal Bulk. Any suggestions?

Anyone recommend good training courses in the Sac area? I'd like to improve my accuracy.


Thanks guys!!

"too little finger" means the tip of your finger is on the trigger and that tends to push it left and usually down. "too much finger" would be your finger hits the trigger closer to the last joint. Try getting the center of the pad of your finger on the trigger.

XDJYo 01-28-2013 11:35 AM

2" groups at 15 yards is nothing to sneeze at! That's very good work even for veteran shooters. So, keep it up!

As far as your shots going left and slightly down, check the shots while shooting on a bag. This should help to see where your gun shoots relative to point of aim. Then, when you're still shooting left and low, you can compare how much. To me, it might be the trigger finger like you said. See about adjusting your grip so you can get a little more trigger finger on it and see how that works out for you.

Post pics of your targets and I'm sure much more experienced shooters will chime in.

Happy shooting and be safe!

Raider888 01-28-2013 11:40 AM

Let someone else shoot it.

Red Devil 01-28-2013 11:44 AM

You are more than likely over-gripping it.

Hold it like a raw egg. Don't drop it - Don't crush it.

It will NOT fly out of your hand.

Then, practice trigger control by dry-firing... lots, till you can dry-fire it aimed at a spot w/o twitching or wiggling the Bbl.


Then go out and shoot it.

(and then practice dry-firing again... some more... lots...)

jessegpresley 01-28-2013 12:08 PM

Low left is anticipating recoil. It's the no. 1 problem with shooters.

GuillermoAntonio 01-28-2013 12:09 PM

all of the above.
And make sure you DO get some training, it will help you more now than later, if you get formal training too late, it will be harder to get rid of bad habits.

myk 01-28-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessegpresley (Post 10347635)
Low left is anticipating recoil. It's the no. 1 problem with shooters.

This was me and my 1911 during our first time out together...

N23 01-28-2013 12:50 PM

Does this apply to left handed shooting?

Sebass 01-28-2013 12:57 PM

I had the same problem, turns out I was over-gripping :facepalm:. Like Red Devil said: hold it like a raw egg.

Here's a video that helped me out as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVhTA-n0ivE

Sofatactical 01-28-2013 1:05 PM

DO NOT hold it like a raw egg!
Grip the SH%T out of it.
More than likely your reaction hand is pulling back therefore pulling your shots.
try torquing your reaction hand slightly forward and inward.
Unless your bullseye shooting you want as much grip on the gun as possible.
Google Bob Vogel grip and read up on that.
Bet you anything your reaction hand is the culprit

Ronin2 01-28-2013 1:07 PM

I can HIGHLY reccomend Tactical Firearms Training Team which is offering its "Tactial Handgun Level 1 and 2 this next weekend in Sacramento.

www.TFTT.com


FEB 02 Tactical Pistol 1 Sacramento, CA
FEB 03 Tactical Pistol 2 Sacramento, CA

jessegpresley 01-28-2013 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N23 (Post 10348160)
Does this apply to left handed shooting?

Low right.

echopapa 01-28-2013 1:21 PM

Thanks for the suggestions! Will check them out!

jessegpresley 01-28-2013 1:24 PM

I've never heard anyone refer to a "raw egg" grip before.

Hold the gun with the same amount of pressure you'd hold a baseball bat.

GM_77 01-28-2013 1:28 PM

Could be a flinch and/or your middle,index and pinky are gripping the gun harder in anticipation of the recoil which moves your sights. Easy way to test it is to do a ball and dummy drill. Get some dummy rounds and load 2-3 mags randomly with live ammo and dummy rounds. Put them in your pocket and mix them around then shoot all three mags. You'll see if you have a flinch or not right away.

Red Devil 01-28-2013 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessegpresley (Post 10348500)
I've never heard anyone refer to a "raw egg" grip before.

Hold the gun with the same amount of pressure you'd hold a baseball bat.

So if you over-grip it... you hit foul balls below third base? :D

tonyxcom 01-28-2013 2:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessegpresley (Post 10347635)
Low left is anticipating recoil. It's the no. 1 problem with shooters.

+1

Have a friend load a few snapcaps/dummy rounds in random magazines then shoot normally. You will see all of your bad habits when you pull the trigger and the gun doesn't go bang.

67goat 01-28-2013 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin2 (Post 10348344)
I can HIGHLY reccomend Tactical Firearms Training Team which is offering its "Tactial Handgun Level 1 and 2 this next weekend in Sacramento.

www.TFTT.com


FEB 02 Tactical Pistol 1 Sacramento, CA
FEB 03 Tactical Pistol 2 Sacramento, CA

I would think a course that requires body armor might be a bit much for somebody learning proper grip and sighting technique.

Ronin2 01-28-2013 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67goat (Post 10349054)
I would think a course that requires body armor might be a bit much for somebody learning proper grip and sighting technique.

Yeah.. maybe right, however, anyone who does any weapons training with a number of strangers on the line should wear body armor as SOP regardless of the class material or level.

Maybe the OP should contact local shooting ranges for more remedial beginners instruction classes.

skosh69 01-28-2013 3:38 PM

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/...oterswheel.gif

9mmepiphany 01-28-2013 11:56 PM

Please don't change the sights until your shoot gets better and don't take the shooting chart too seriously...it is geared towards one handed shooting

If you are interested, drop me a PM and I'll take a quick look at your grip and trigger press. No charge for the checkup, I just hate to see someone start out building bad shooting habits... you can pick up the range fees...if you'd like additional instruction, we can talk about it afterwards

BowtieBill 01-29-2013 8:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessegpresley (Post 10347635)
Low left is anticipating recoil. It's the no. 1 problem with shooters.

I was having the same problem. My instructor suggested this was my issue, and was able to show me what exactly I was doing.

strega7 01-29-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin2 (Post 10348344)
I can HIGHLY reccomend Tactical Firearms Training Team which is offering its "Tactial Handgun Level 1 and 2 this next weekend in Sacramento.

www.TFTT.com


FEB 02 Tactical Pistol 1 Sacramento, CA
FEB 03 Tactical Pistol 2 Sacramento, CA

I was looking over their website for information about their classes. Looks good! However is this gem correct;

*
Q – Can I bring out my M4 or AK to California for your classes?

*
A – Absolutely. The California “Assault Weapons” ban only applies to California residents. If you are coming out for a sanctioned Training or Competition Event you will have no issues. To be safe, you may want to print off the Course Description from the TFTT web site and have that with you as an added documentation.

No issues ???

k1dude 01-29-2013 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessegpresley (Post 10347635)
Low left is anticipating recoil. It's the no. 1 problem with shooters.

^ This. You've developed a flinch while anticipating recoil. Have someone put a dummy round in one of your mags. When you unknowingly reach it, you'll notice you'll jerk the gun when you think it's going to fire.

Trigger control will help you overcome this. Squeeze the trigger slowly. The shot timing should come as a surprise to you.

Dry fire practice is cheap. Do a lot of it and make sure your gun and front sight don't move at all when you're dry firing.

9mmepiphany 01-29-2013 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strega7 (Post 10357481)
I was looking over their website for information about their classes. Looks good! However is this gem correct;

*
Q – Can I bring out my M4 or AK to California for your classes?

*
A – Absolutely. The California “Assault Weapons” ban only applies to California residents. If you are coming out for a sanctioned Training or Competition Event you will have no issues. To be safe, you may want to print off the Course Description from the TFTT web site and have that with you as an added documentation.

No issues ???

Yes, it is. It is an exception for training...doesn't apply to handguns

pyromensch 01-29-2013 6:58 PM

check your stance, maybe you are muscling it. adjust your stance a little to the right, lift the firearm, (unloaded), sight it, close your eyes, take a couple of breaths, relax. open your eyes, see where your sights have drifted to, adjust stance accordingly


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