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-   -   SHOT Show 2013 | Heckler & Koch 45, 45 Tactical, & MR762A1 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=690301)

GunVault.TV 01-28-2013 11:16 AM

SHOT Show 2013 | Heckler & Koch 45, 45 Tactical, & MR762A1
 
A few minutes with H&K in their booth at the 2013 SHOT Show. We're taking a look at the HK45 / HK45 Tactical, and the MR762A1


mossy 01-28-2013 11:24 AM

i don't like HK, they are not civilian friendly. i believe if they could they would refuse civilian sales and only sell to LEO/ military.

GunVault.TV 01-28-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossy (Post 10346577)
i don't like HK, they are not civilian friendly. i believe if they could they would refuse civilian sales and only sell to LEO/ military.

Really? Out of curiosity, what makes you say that? I only ask, because every other manufacturer knows that the money to be made in firearms is with the civilian American market.

Xanatos 01-28-2013 12:07 PM

Germany has some rather asinine export restrictions regarding firearms meaning it's that much MORE expensive for HK to export to the US for civilian sales. HK does NOT maintain nor operate a domestic based plant meaning ALL of their civilian firearm products need to pass German export restrictions.

Due to these restrictions HK stands to make much more money off of purely military/LE contracts which do not need to pass the same export standards. This is the exact business plan that HK has adopted meaning out of their net revenue, only a small portion of that comes from the civilian market. It is much easier for them to win a contract for 1,000 MP7s than it is for them to import the same value of firearms to be sold in the civilian market.

Sure, they'll sell their products to civilians, but ONLY if it doesn't require them to get around any export restrictions to do it. The major downside is because HK doesn't have nearly the same volume of US based contracts for their small arms as does FN or Beretta, they are unwilling to invest in the money to build a domestic plant just to cash in on the American civilian market.

Edit: Also have no idea why someone in the industry wouldn't already know this or more. Then again looking at your website, you're very new to the industry in which case good luck with your success without knowing basic information regarding major industry players.

GunVault.TV 01-28-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanatos (Post 10346999)
Germany has some rather asinine export restrictions regarding firearms meaning it's that much MORE expensive for HK to export to the US for civilian sales. HK does NOT maintain nor operate a domestic based plant meaning ALL of their civilian firearm products need to pass German export restrictions.

Due to these restrictions HK stands to make much more money off of purely military/LE contracts which do not need to pass the same export standards. This is the exact business plan that HK has adopted meaning out of their net revenue, only a small portion of that comes from the civilian market. It is much easier for them to win a contract for 1,000 MP7s than it is for them to import the same value of firearms to be sold in the civilian market.

Sure, they'll sell their products to civilians, but ONLY if it doesn't require them to get around any export restrictions to do it. The major downside is because HK doesn't have nearly the same volume of US based contracts for their small arms as does FN or Beretta, they are unwilling to invest in the money to build a domestic plant just to cash in on the American civilian market.

Edit: Also have no idea why someone in the industry wouldn't already know this or more. Then again looking at your website, you're very new to the industry in which case good luck with your success without knowing basic information regarding major industry players.

Thanks for the insight and well wishes. We're a media outlet, not an importer or exporter of firearms, so excuse our questions if they sound elementary for those in the know.

Your explanation would also seem to account for why HKs are generally on the "higher end" of the price spectrum, but everyone we've spoken to has always indicated it was because of reputation and quality, not the costs associated with production and distribution.

Wally2528 01-28-2013 12:18 PM

I heard and read the HK 45 and 45C are being assembled in US (specifically New Hampshire), so interesting to know where the source stating they are exported out of Germany came from....

Xanatos 01-28-2013 12:39 PM

They are assembled domestically yes, but the parts are still imported which still fall under the German export restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunVault.TV (Post 10347076)
Thanks for the insight and well wishes. We're a media outlet, not an importer or exporter of firearms, so excuse our questions if they sound elementary for those in the know.

Your explanation would also seem to account for why HKs are generally on the "higher end" of the price spectrum, but everyone we've spoken to has always indicated it was because of reputation and quality, not the costs associated with production and distribution.

In that case, best of luck with your future success. It would actually be very interesting to see how it turns out. I'd be very excited if I could have free or cheap access to a complete overview of SHOT show without having to actually pay and attend the show. It would also be nice to have a single integrated place to visit for all firearms related releases, announcements, etc. rather than hitting up 5 different manufacturers or blogs to see what's new.

hoss_hk 01-28-2013 10:09 PM

So besides falling under German qc/export restrictions, trying to make money on a global market, and following what Fed/CA laws they fall under, what is the problem? Seems like free market capitalism to me. Price seems to hang up with so many people- but how much do you spend on ammo a year? Just don't buy and don't hate if you don't agree with it.

Xanatos 01-28-2013 10:33 PM

I wasn't aware someone was complaining about price?

jessegpresley 01-28-2013 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossy (Post 10346577)
i don't like HK, they are not civilian friendly. i believe if they could they would refuse civilian sales and only sell to LEO/ military.

HK just went through with a group buy for members of HKPro.net. $800 for a HK45c with 3 mags and night sights, which is hundreds less than retail. They also made in in Flat Desert Earth which is an exclusive color combo for this group buy. I'm not aware of other manufacturers making group buys available for civilians.

G60 01-28-2013 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mossy (Post 10346577)
i don't like HK, they are not civilian friendly. i believe if they could they would refuse civilian sales and only sell to LEO/ military.

None of what you just said is true.

jyo 01-29-2013 1:11 PM

HK CS in the past was extremely lacking---I don't hear too much about it lately. I own several HK pistols and apart from high magazine prices, I don't have anything else to complain about as my guns have never needed any service! That's how I like it...

Xanatos 01-29-2013 1:26 PM

Their new CS is pretty awesome. When I first got my USP Tactical I decided to swap out for a heavier recoil spring to shoot .45 Super with. The stupid custom sized c-clip on the front holding the whole recoil spring system magically disappeared. Their old CS completely ignored all my inquiries about purchasing a replacement.

Recently my USP Tactical rear sight was damaged. Somehow a piece was knocked out on the inside of the sight. Still have no idea how the sight blade was damaged on the inside, but I called HK and they paid shipping both ways. Got the gun back with a brand new adjustable target sight and the c-clip was replaced in about 2 weeks.

starsnuffer 01-29-2013 2:33 PM

HK was burned VERY BADLY with the last assault weapon ban. It took a very long time to convince them to sell to civilians in the US again. You can bet that there are managers in Germany saying "I told you so" right about now.

That said, their customer service is awesome and their products are top notch. The only complaints are price and the fat-man-in-a-chair-internet-drama driven "HK hates you" nonsense.

-W

GunVault.TV 01-29-2013 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanatos (Post 10347344)
I'd be very excited if I could have free or cheap access to a complete overview of SHOT show without having to actually pay and attend the show. It would also be nice to have a single integrated place to visit for all firearms related releases, announcements, etc. rather than hitting up 5 different manufacturers or blogs to see what's new.

That's exactly what we're trying to do more or less. Although we weren't able to cover everything at the show we did our best to cover what the Calgunners requested to see in our other threads. We were doing around 11 interviews a day for five days, and we still didn't get to everything. But, stay tuned to our channel, we have some great interviews coming up.

Q619 01-30-2013 1:48 AM

The best customer service is the one you never have to use. I've been lucky in this respect with HK. I wanted to buy some spare trigger springs off them: great service. Also had a trigger converted by them: had it back in about a week-week and a half. My experience with them has been positive.

If you have no actual experience with what you're speaking on, it's best to keep yer yap shut. Most of what I've heard about HK having bad service is "I heard" or "I know this guy" type stories. They may have been bad in the past but I don't find them lacking now.


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