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-   -   Well, if you ever wondered about Glocks and Dry-Firing... (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=684685)

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 4:23 PM

Well, if you ever wondered about Glocks and Dry-Firing...
 
Here's what happens when you don't use a snap cap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps833163f4.jpg

Heard a "Krak" instead of a "Click!" and the slide locked up. Finally got it open to see what you see here.

LuisJr 01-21-2013 4:46 PM

Well I guess I'll be going to Turner's for snap caps. That's strange, I've done thousands upon thousands of dry fire drills between all my Glocks and have never had any issues.

Luis Jr

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 4:50 PM

I know a lot of people who have. Comes as a pretty rude shock.

Wonder how much this will set my shooting fund back. :facepalm:

Nynvolt 01-21-2013 4:58 PM

Physically impossible for the striker to blow through the billet of steel like that. If the striker could do that, I'd hate to see what a live round would do since it surely is pulsing the shell backwards as hard as it is propelling the projectile forward, which is under far more pressure than a little spring powered striker.

Good story though, I've seen it posted elsewhere, with a similar photo attached.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 5:00 PM

If you believe so, please inform my pistol. It seems to have missed the memo, and its ignorance has brought about a situation I find ENTIRELY disagreeable. :)

SixPointEight 01-21-2013 5:00 PM

Agree with above. Same pic on a page with your sn?

Rucku5 01-21-2013 5:07 PM

Yeah, I am calling different problem caused it...

a308garand 01-21-2013 5:07 PM

I have never seen or heard of this being an issue before either. Guess you really do learn sumthin every day.

vintagearms 01-21-2013 5:11 PM

Its a rare occurance but has happened. Call Glock, they will take care of it.

ConfucianScholar 01-21-2013 5:12 PM

The picture is FAKE and ridiculous. The damage to that gun was not done by dry diring.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 5:14 PM

Pardon my terrible handwriting. :) Yes, I will call glock. No, this handgun has not seen a round go through it in about a year, as I am a poor student...but it has seen a lot of dry-fire.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...psc1028a0a.jpg

Grumpyoldretiredcop 01-21-2013 5:14 PM

Google it, it happens. There are a number of reported cases, most that I found related substantial dry-fire or high round count. I'm betting that if the OP contacts Glock and sends in the slide, he'll get a replacement.

opie4386 01-21-2013 5:22 PM

1911

G-forceJunkie 01-21-2013 5:45 PM

As a Glock Armorer, I have had a 34 brought to me like that. Guy was a USPSA grand master, and training for the Front Site weapons master test. When I quiered how many time he dry fired he told me his routine and how long he had been doing it. I caculated aprox 250,000 dry fires. Its rare, but it happens.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 5:54 PM

This pistol was a Gen 3, and so are a fair number of the other similar failures I'm seeing on google. Was there something wrong with the steel/heat treats that made them more susceptible or should I just go out and buy a couple lotto tickets?

BamBam-31 01-21-2013 6:04 PM

What kind of ammo did you shoot through it?

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 6:08 PM

As stated, this was during a dry-fire session. Pistol hasn't seen ammunition in over a year, and the last ammo it DID see was WWB 115gr, and every once in a while some 147gr JHP from federal.

No +P+ nuke loads, handloads of any kind, UZI SMG ammo, or 1000 round "Lets see if we can melt the frame!" sessions.

Raider888 01-21-2013 6:15 PM

I don't see how dry firing can damage it.

Maybe is from corrosive ammunition, and not cleaning it.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 6:26 PM

Unless they started loading those wal-mart 100 round bulk packs of 9mm with corrosive components, I doubt it.

Even if corrosive ammunition WAS the culprit, my bore would look like the surface of the moon by the time it weakened the breech face to that extent...

I can show timestamped pictures of my barrel with my SN written next to it too, if that's required... :stuart:

Sakiri 01-21-2013 6:39 PM

Pardon my stupid but....

What exactly am I looking at here?

I'm not exactly familiar with "broken gun" issues. You dry fired it, something happened, posted a picture, and I haven't a clue what I'm looking at nor a clue as to what happened.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 6:42 PM

The giant hemispherical crack above (and to the right of...and left of...) the firing pin slot is where part of the breech face bent outwards under the impact of the striker hitting it one too many times.

MA2 01-21-2013 6:50 PM

Think you can detail strip the upper?
Just curious want to see how the pin/others parts look like, if they are bent.

GL, hope Glock covers.

9mmlove 01-21-2013 6:53 PM

That's one solid chunk off steel. Send it to glock and they will replace it. This should not happen, you may have a bad heat treated slide. It should not be separating like that, in a circle non the less!

Born To Glock 01-21-2013 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crosseyed (Post 10276452)
Here's what happens when you don't use a snap cap:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ps833163f4.jpg

Heard a "Krak" instead of a "Click!" and the slide locked up. Finally got it open to see what you see here.

What's up with all the lint and grease(?). You mentioned in the thread you've only been dry-firing for the past year, so I am confuse. Maybe I AM a neat freak, but I just checked my glocks and they don't have lint and grease on those parts.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 6:58 PM

I will be leaving the slide as-is until I hear from Glock, but I have to admit I am really curious about what the striker looks like right now.
Quote:

What's up with all the lint and grease(?).
You caught me....I haven't actually cleaned the thing since I shot it last, though I have reapplied oil :o

JeremyS 01-21-2013 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nynvolt (Post 10276588)
Physically impossible for the striker to blow through the billet of steel like that. If the striker could do that, I'd hate to see what a live round would do since it surely is pulsing the shell backwards as hard as it is propelling the projectile forward, which is under far more pressure than a little spring powered striker.

Good story though, I've seen it posted elsewhere, with a similar photo attached.

Yeah, you've seen it posted elsewhere with similar photos because it DOES HAPPEN and when it does, people post photos of the damage. The photos look similar because they're of the same damage on the same type of gun. Your conspiracy theory is ridiculous.

As to the meat of what you said, it is NOT physically impossible. Not only because you are literally looking at physical evidence of it happening, but because the two things you are comparing are completely and totally different, but pretty much in the opposite way you are assuming in your comments.

Striker: When the striker is cocked, it is separated from the back of the breech face. The gun is in battery and the slide is fixed and cannot go farther forward. Now the striker is released, and is slams into the back of the fixed breech face. These impacts can cause cracks, peening, work hardening, etc over time. The firing pin is likely hardened tool steel, and the slide is not. If the heat treat process was not done properly on this specific slide, it could be more brittle than it should be.

Ammo: When a round is fired, the soft brass case is in contact with the breech face already. There is no impact, because they are already in contact. Also different, the slide moves backwards. Yes, the case pushes backwards just as hard as the bullet is pushed forwards. However, it's a push, not an impact, and because the slide moves backwards from that push it makes it even more gentle on the breech face.

Can you tell me how thick the breech face is on a Glock? At what thickness (thinness) would you say the firing pin would crack it every time? Obviously, there IS a thickness where it would not be capable of withstanding that impact. Nobody would argue otherwise. So... what makes you so sure that the breech face of a Glock is of such thickness and strength, and not brittle enough, that it is physically impossible for this to happen despite seeing a photo that clearly demonstrates that it happened?

Kodemonkey 01-21-2013 7:03 PM

Send it back to Glock. I would be shocked if they didn't take care of you. The mass of that firing pin should not be able to break that gun. There had to be a defect in it. Did you pull the rear plate off and inspect the firing pin? I would be interested to see what that looks like.

Even if this happened to me personally, I wouldn't bother with a snap cap. This would have happened eventually in a real fire situation, and it could have been worse - if not more complicated a warranty issue. The fact that no ammo is involved makes it a slam dunk warranty claim. Not that I think glock would have given you trouble otherwise. After reading a whole book on Glocks recently, their profit margin is so high that it's a no brainer to just replace it.

INFAMOUS762X39 01-21-2013 7:43 PM

Guess I am not practicing dry firing with my Glock 19 tonight.

Please take pictures of your Striker, we are all interested in what it looks like.

tbc 01-21-2013 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyS (Post 10278000)
Yeah, you've seen it posted elsewhere with similar photos because it DOES HAPPEN and when it does, people post photos of the damage. The photos look similar because they're of the same damage on the same type of gun. Your conspiracy theory is ridiculous.

As to the meat of what you said, it is NOT physically impossible. Not only because you are literally looking at physical evidence of it happening, but because the two things you are comparing are completely and totally different, but pretty much in the opposite way you are assuming in your comments.

Striker: When the striker is cocked, it is separated from the back of the breech face. The gun is in battery and the slide is fixed and cannot go farther forward. Now the striker is released, and is slams into the back of the fixed breech face. These impacts can cause cracks, peening, work hardening, etc over time. The firing pin is likely hardened tool steel, and the slide is not. If the heat treat process was not done properly on this specific slide, it could be more brittle than it should be.

Ammo: When a round is fired, the soft brass case is in contact with the breech face already. There is no impact, because they are already in contact. Also different, the slide moves backwards. Yes, the case pushes backwards just as hard as the bullet is pushed forwards. However, it's a push, not an impact, and because the slide moves backwards from that push it makes it even more gentle on the breech face.

Can you tell me how thick the breech face is on a Glock? At what thickness (thinness) would you say the firing pin would crack it every time? Obviously, there IS a thickness where it would not be capable of withstanding that impact. Nobody would argue otherwise. So... what makes you so sure that the breech face of a Glock is of such thickness and strength, and not brittle enough, that it is physically impossible for this to happen despite seeing a photo that clearly demonstrates that it happened?

Amen. I couldn't say it any better.

And why only Glock?


Sent from iPhone through Tapatalk

lt05deluxe 01-21-2013 7:49 PM

Kinda weird since you need to dry fire a Glock before you field strip it.

Mojave Desert 01-21-2013 7:57 PM

Crosseyed: Can we get the model/caliber and the approximate round count of your gen 3?

My guess is the improper heat treat caused cracking of the breech face upon normal firing. The repeated dry fire finished off the rest of the defect and pushed the whole breech area supporting the brass forward. At least this didn't happen when you were firing real ammo. Could have been worse.

glock21fan 01-21-2013 8:01 PM

It05deluxe I usually have a snap cap when field stripping. I was warned about this issue during a few pistol classes that had a dry fire se ssion before hand. Unless I dont have a snap cap I dont dry fire at all even when field stripping

JeremyS 01-21-2013 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbc (Post 10278454)
And why only Glock?

I've seen it happen on 1911's.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojave Desert
At least this didn't happen when you were firing real ammo.

Totally possible that this same gun could have gone 100,000 rounds of firing real ammo without it ever happening. The striker doesn't impact the back of the breech face as hard or at all when it's slowed down by the primer.

Giving the striker/firing pin something to hit instead of bottoming out on the breech face is one of the primary reasons to use snap caps.

Crosseyed 01-21-2013 8:15 PM

Quote:

Can we get the model/caliber and the approximate round count of your gen 3?
17, 9mm. Approx 800 rounds through it, purchased NIB.

Def. going to see if Glock will give me a replacement slide. It was just a baby!

InGrAM 01-21-2013 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremyS (Post 10278680)

Giving the striker/firing pin something to hit instead of bottoming out on the breech face is one of the primary reasons to use snap caps.

Yep ^

I find it hilarious that some people think that Glocks are somehow indestructible. They are firearms just like every other firearm. Eventually things break, especially with improper use.

HPGunner 01-21-2013 8:21 PM

Never thought of using snap caps to field strip it. I guess I will do that from now on. I want my Glock to out last my life time.

Gryff 01-21-2013 8:42 PM

Dry fire away. This is a 1-in-100000 occurrence. If it happens, contact Glock and they'll replace the slide.

beretta929mm 01-21-2013 9:02 PM

Why does your breech face have a circular elevation?
Mine is a G19 and its breech face is flat.

Dumas1012 01-21-2013 9:10 PM

Sorry to be off topic, but why is your grammar almost perfect on all your posts, but the note you wrote looked like it was written by a 2nd grader?

Dark Mod 01-21-2013 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryff (Post 10279049)
Dry fire away. This is a 1-in-100000 occurrence. If it happens, contact Glock and they'll replace the slide.

Seconded, provided that Glock actually sends Crosseyed a new slide. Please update with results when you call glock


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