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-   -   Glock 17 GEN 4 issues - Solved... sort of (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=682252)

jink122 01-18-2013 3:01 PM

Glock 17 GEN 4 issues - Solved... sort of
 
I have a Glock 17 Gen 4 which I bought off CalGuns brand new through a police officer who had purchased it. I quickly ran into issues where every expended cartridge flopped on my forearm or flew straight at my face.

I researched and found MANY Gen4 owners had this same issue. My Glock had the recently updated RSA(Recoil Spring Assembly) and the new ejector marked 30274. I did not have limp wrist grip when I shot it and I was using basic Federal 115 ammo. Not even Winchester White Box which seems to be the problem ammo for the Gen4. People kept telling me it was my grip.

I talked to Charlie Vanek of Vanek triggers who said that it was the RSA being too stiff and made for hotter loads. He advised to go with a single spring recoil assembly which I purchased but did not try out yet because I contacted Glock who's customer service replied back to me 3 days after I emailed them and they told me to send it in for RMA. I followed up with further questions and got no reply.

I wrapped my Glock in bubble wrap and sent it next day air on 12/31/12 and got it back 1/17/13. I was please to see they included a new case, cleaning brush, loader, and marketing material. From what I could see, it looks like they stripped the lower and replaced the RSA again. (I know this because I marked the RSA I had and my trigger pins were as well and those are gone) They don't tell you what they did, the paper work just says RMA "Upgrade." I left my 4.5 firing pin spring in when I sent it and they pulled that out and put it in a little zip lock for me and placed it in the box and replaced it with the factory one.

I took it to the range yesterday and fired 150 rounds. Prior to the RMA I had 1 in every 7 rounds hit me in the safety glasses and every 7 out of 10 rounds bounce off my forearm. Two rounds would eject away from me but with no force.

After the RMA, out of 150 rounds of Federal 115 I had a total of 6 rounds hit me in the face, 4 into my shoulder, and the rest ejected perfectly with force to my right. A big improvement from before but the 6 rounds that still hit my face concern me. Had I not been wearing glasses two of the rounds would have hit me square in the eye. One round got stuck between my hearing protection and head and burned my scalp. I am ok with this because the G17Gen4 is not my defense firearm. My 45 takes care of that, but it's still concerning because what if I am in a situation where I might need to use it?

I group about 1-1.5 inches at 7 yards. The series i shot after being hit in the face increased my group to 3-5 inches at 7 yards. It made me lose focus.

I will be hitting the range tomorrow with the single spring recoil assembly and will give more feedback.

For those who have problems, here are the fixes I have found online though I do not know how much success u will find with them:

1) Replace the recoil spring assembly to a single stage. U can get these on ebay. They also sell Gen 3 recoil spring adaptors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281018532336...84.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271100012243...84.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290830427306...84.m1423.l2649

2) Make sure the ejector is marked 30274

3) Get the Apex Extractor

4) Call Glock and get an RMA.

Hope this helps people as this took me a long time to really understand what was happening with my pistol.

It's a big improvement, not perfect, but I want this to function like my Gen3 so I have no worries. I will post an updated if the new RSA changed anything.

****Update****

When home and sadly the singe spring RSA was not in the mail. So I went to shoot anyway. I fired 200 rounds this time, zero hit my face, I had one flop on my forearm and one eject to the left, but the rest stayed clear of my face. I'm guessing the RSA just needed to smoothen out.

trigger945 01-19-2013 10:29 AM

Thanks for this post. I have been searching for a Gen 4 G17 because I'm curious as to the difference from the Gen 3 G17. I've fired a Gen 4 G26 and loved it! I have a Gen 3 G17 and love it more now after replacing the guide rod to steel. I will check this post for update before pursuing my search for Gen 4.

hiyabrad 01-21-2013 9:14 AM

Anyone else having Gen 4 issues?

DCF 01-21-2013 9:24 AM

I did with my gen 4 Glock 19. I had to contact a local Glock certified armorer to get the 30274 ejector and a new extractor for me from Glock. The armorer helped me installed the parts and I just put about 50 rounds yesterday. No more brass to my head during that 50 rounds.

Lumpia is sarap! 01-21-2013 10:00 AM

Wow, that sucks man. And I really feel for you: spending good money on a gun, especially a rare one in CA and getting these problems.

I got my G17Gen4 when they first came out, and I did have spent brass eject to my face but after 200+ rounds it just stopped. After that no problems; it functions as well as my other Gen3 Glocks. It has all the original parts in it (but I did have the two other replaced recoil spring and new ejector):

I still use the original recoil spring assembly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s/DSCN1940.jpg

In my opinion, we focus more on the problems than on the solutions. That's why we get more posts on Gen4 brass to the face, than boring reliable Glocks. They maybe isolated incidents, because maybe I'm that 1%. But I hope things work out for you.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...s/DSCN0344.jpg

If you want, we can compare our Glocks at the range to see if that helps.

kristover72 01-21-2013 10:16 AM

Sorry to hear about your Glock. I have a 17, 26, 34, and 22 all in Gen4 and have had no troubles with them. I did have a 23, which was updated with the RSA, that would eject the rounds almost straight up but, fortunatley, at a slight angle and was never hit.

Good luck at the range.

jink122 01-22-2013 12:51 AM

Seems like most of the issues are the RSA, it either needs to be broken in or replaced. I shot about 500 rounds on the stock RSA and I still had issues. The RMA fixed it for me.

Eddie916 01-22-2013 6:02 AM

So I didn't have any issues with my glock 17 gen 4... and it's an early production 2010 model.. it's all stock just lubed it up and that thing rocked away... ejecting about 3;30-4;00.... On the other hand i just bought a gen3 glock 29 and has tons of RSA recoil issues... I called Glock and they sent me a new RSA and it's all good...

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 7:48 AM

From another post:






BTW, testing was cut short as it was 114 degrees that first day and the gun was too hot to hold.

tal3nt 01-22-2013 12:14 PM

So many factors. Even lightening the trigger helps with ejection. Might be because you can hold the gun tighter while squeezing off a round

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285054)
So many factors. Even lightening the trigger helps with ejection. Might be because you can hold the gun tighter while squeezing off a round


Uh what?

tal3nt 01-22-2013 12:21 PM

Reread it maybe? It's in perfect English..

I put a ghost in it and had less erratic. Put the factory 5.5 back in it yesterday, bttf A LOT.. just some input from personal experience. Hope I didn't hurt ya butt

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285097)
Reread it maybe? It's in perfect English..

I put a ghost in it and had less erratic. Put the factory 5.5 back in it yesterday, bttf A LOT.. just some input from personal experience. Hope I didn't hurt ya butt


I read it just fine, but there's no logical way for that to work. You might as well claim skittles keep you from limp wristing soo much.

tal3nt 01-22-2013 12:32 PM

Skittles, not so much. But m&m's on the other hand..

In all seriousness though, it felt like I had to focus more on getting the trigger to break which lead me to have a weaker grip (having a tight grip while trying to break a slightly heavier trigger makes your aim unsteady, therefore heavy trigger = weaker grip so that you can hold the sights steady). It's not really up for debate whether a weak grip causes bttf, although this may NOT be the only cause. One hand shooting causes far more bttf. Just a theory.. I'm aware of the other "issues" like extractor/ejector/ejection port, but I think my theory may at least have some logic to it..

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285185)
Skittles, not so much. But m&m's on the other hand..

In all seriousness though, it felt like I had to focus more on getting the trigger to break which lead me to have a weaker grip (having a tight grip while trying to break a slightly heavier trigger makes your aim unsteady, therefore heavy trigger = weaker grip so that you can hold the sights steady).
It's not really up for debate whether a weak grip causes bttf, although this may NOT be the only cause. One hand shooting causes far more bttf. Just a theory.. I'm aware of the other "issues" like extractor/ejector/ejection port, but I think my theory may at least have some logic to it..


Sounds like some training would help you learn to shoot correctly first so that the placebo effect you're describing wouldn't be posted. :facepalm:

Plus you should learn the difference between grip and a limp wrist which have nothing to do with each other. You can squeeze the gun as hard as you can and still limp wrist.

tal3nt 01-22-2013 12:47 PM

I wouldn't say they have Nothing to do with each other. I understand the difference you point out however. Do you still stand by your claim that my theory has zero logic? My training exceeds most and all my shots were still bullseyes, but the Fact is that I had more bttf with a stock connector. And I prefer stock connectors. If you're ever in south couty oc we can shoot

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285298)
I wouldn't say they have Nothing to do with each other. I understand the difference you point out however. Do you still stand by your claim that my theory has zero logic? My training exceeds most and al my shots were will bullseyes, but the Fact is that I had more bttf with a stock connector. And I prefer stock connectors. If you're ever in south couty oc we can shoot


Yes, and your posts make you look like a young guy new to firearms. There's nothing wrong with that, we all were there at one time.

Please detail your training since you brought it up with certificates, challenge coins, videos etc...

tal3nt 01-22-2013 12:51 PM

But yes, perhaps what I meant to say was

"In all seriousness though, it felt like I had to focus more on getting the trigger to break which lead me to have a LIMPER WRIST (having a STIFF WRIST while trying to break a slightly heavier trigger makes your aim unsteady, therefore heavy trigger = LIMPER WRIST so that you can hold the sights steady)"

tal3nt 01-22-2013 12:58 PM

I will refrain from trying to help others as being called more or less an idiot for proposing a bttf theory is not what I'm here for. Happy shootin

tal3nt 01-22-2013 1:03 PM

g19, 5 rds, 10 yrds, on a bad day.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ps33e8bc72.jpg

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 1:18 PM

Glocks are capable of one hole groups at 10 yards, thanks for the reminder.

tal3nt 01-22-2013 1:23 PM

No problem ;)

I really wanna like you, Shenaniguns. You seem knowledgeable and obviously share the same infatuation with Glocks as I do. I guess 'friendly' just isn't your thing. I still have faith in us though

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 1:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285591)
No problem ;)

I really wanna like you, Shenaniguns. You seem knowledgeable and obviously share the same infatuation with Glocks as I do. I guess 'friendly' just isn't your thing. I still have faith in us though


I'm friendly, but you got insulting after I just said "Uh what?."

Then your explanation does not logically make any sense, though you try real hard to fit the square block into the round hole. I'm not a Glock armorer but it doesn't take one to figure out that you're really stretching your argument.

tal3nt 01-22-2013 1:37 PM

Perhaps what I'm trying to explain didn't translate well in writing. But remember my friend, it was simply a theory of mine; I wasn't trying to contribute to a scholarly journal.. Just wanted to add 2 cents that I haven't heard before since there obviously isn't a set-in-stone answer as to why Glocks bttf. I agree that I got a bit insulting and I apologize. I personally get quite offended when someone calls me a young new shooter that doesn't even know basic fundementals as if this person knows who I am. I will take it with a grain of salt next time

Shenaniguns 01-22-2013 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285706)
Perhaps what I'm trying to explain didn't translate well in writing. But remember my friend, it was simply a theory of mine; I wasn't trying to contribute to a scholarly journal.. Just wanted to add 2 cents that I haven't heard before since there obviously isn't a set-in-stone answer as to why Glocks bttf. I agree that I got a bit insulting and I apologize. I personally get quite offended when someone calls me a young new shooter that doesn't even know basic fundementals as if this person knows who I am. I will take it with a grain of salt next time



The way you explained things earlier makes you sound like a new shooter... You typed out that response, I didn't just make up my theory from no where.

And this is way off-topic so I'm not responding to your posts that are not in relation to Glock's extraction.

tal3nt 01-22-2013 3:16 PM

K, well.. a lighter trigger may potentially help with BTTF extraction on Glocks.

M1NM 01-22-2013 3:21 PM

Use the gangbanger horizontal hold - the brass will safely pass to your left

INFAMOUS762X39 01-22-2013 4:10 PM

I had the same issue with my G19 Gen3, Constant BTTF.

I updated to the 30274 Ejector and #4 Non Dipped 9mm OEM Extractor myself. Still using the stock RSA, No more BTTF, ejects 4oclock all day for me.

What # is your extractor?

INFAMOUS762X39 01-22-2013 4:10 PM

2x Post.

InterSpool 01-22-2013 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tal3nt (Post 10285437)

ohhh das nice


Secondly, brand new Gen 4 Glock 19 here which I have put only 100 rounds through but no issues with ejections although I did have a weird FTF. I put my G17 mag into my G19, released the slide, then removed the mag and put in a G19 mag, and for some reason after firing the first round the slide failed to push the round into battery. I have shot 2000 of the same ammo through my Gen 4 Glock 17 with zero failures. I am almost certain I misloaded the magazine. I do note that the G19 mags feel like you are pushing past the spring tension on the 10th round. Not that it is overly hard to get the 10th round in, but it feels like there is no spring resistance. I HATE CA 10 round mags.


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