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-   -   Today, I defiled 4 rebuild kits. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=680600)

sharxbyte 01-16-2013 12:28 PM

Today, I defiled 4 rebuild kits.
 
Blocked 2 for my PX4 Storm and 2 for my AR-x39.

Right now the epoxy is hardening, and I am sad... Not just for the loss of these now enslaved magazines, but for the freedom that was taken from the free united states along with them. I was keeping these for trips when I leave the Peoples Republic of Kommifornistan, to the free states of Oregon and Washington. Now I will not be able to use them even there, and as such, they have joined my other lonely prisoners.

Rest In Peace. (I'll post pics and measurements for blocking x39 30 rd mags if anyone wants them)


By the way, I am still fighting, signing petitions and making calls, and planning on attending the march at the capitol on the 19th. We haven't lost everything yet.

gunsarefun 01-16-2013 5:32 PM

Why did you epoxy them? Did you put a block in them?

MrPlink 01-16-2013 6:17 PM

No epoxy needed. Not horribly hard to remove either.
Just make sure they are blocked for appropriate use and you are gtg.

sharxbyte 01-16-2013 8:35 PM

Yes they are blocked. don't they need to be permanently modified to accept only 10 rds?

MrPlink 01-16-2013 8:44 PM

No definition of "permanent ". Plus If you remove the block you have a parts kit, not a hi cap.

Exdc 01-16-2013 8:45 PM

I believe permanent in the same way that your magazine cannot be removed... I.E. requiring a tool of some sort. Don't quote me.

starsnuffer 01-16-2013 9:10 PM

Epoxy is for the tinfoil hat crowd. There's no definition of permanent. Mag blocks installed are fine.

Since you'll be using these as a "fixed magazine rifle" with the addition of a bullet button, you're doubly fine. You don't have to epoxy the end on your shotgun magazine for the same reason.

-W

Justintoxicated 01-16-2013 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starsnuffer (Post 10230504)
Epoxy is for the tinfoil hat crowd. There's no definition of permanent. Mag blocks installed are fine.

Since you'll be using these as a "fixed magazine rifle" with the addition of a bullet button, you're doubly fine. You don't have to epoxy the end on your shotgun magazine for the same reason.

-W

I dunno it all comes down to a Jury, and their definition of permanent. I don't think they would consider an easily removable block, permanent, but they might. :confused:

vintagearms 01-16-2013 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starsnuffer (Post 10230504)
Epoxy is for the tinfoil hat crowd. There's no definition of permanent. Mag blocks installed are fine.

Since you'll be using these as a "fixed magazine rifle" with the addition of a bullet button, you're doubly fine. You don't have to epoxy the end on your shotgun magazine for the same reason.

-W

Setting aside the tinfoil, the CA DOJ does rely on definitions from the Federal ATF (IE- definition/classification of muzzlebreaks vs flash hiders, etc). Permanence is defined there, even though it is not expressly stated in CA law.

Jet Setter 01-16-2013 10:06 PM

The horror! If we could bow our heads for a moment of silence...

Arnelcheeze 01-16-2013 10:15 PM

a pin in the floorplate, while hard to remove would be fine, but epoxy is def. permanent.

MrPlink 01-16-2013 10:27 PM

Epoxy is NOT permanent. I just helped a buddy remove some to make rebuilds just yesterday. Nothing a heat gun and some elbow grease can't solve.

Donk310 01-16-2013 10:33 PM

If you are sad now... just wait till you have to block them again, to 7 or less rounds.

MrPlink 01-16-2013 11:40 PM

This ain't New York.

Cactus_Tim 01-17-2013 6:26 AM

New York City?
Get a rope!


b-ran 01-17-2013 6:41 AM

The federal ban on hi caps hasn't passed yet. That has to go through he house and senate.

gunsarefun 01-17-2013 7:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated (Post 10230905)
I dunno it all comes down to a Jury, and their definition of permanent. I don't think they would consider an easily removable block, permanent, but they might. :confused:

It's super simple. It's legal to own the parts. Once assembled with a block, there is no way to get an 11th round in the mag. It is permanently stuck at no more than 10. If it's disassembled it's once again a pile of legal parts.

So the classic "DA in front of a jury trying to get you convicted" scenario. DA takes a legal pile of parts, assembles the mag with the block, and now has what you had. A mag that can't take more than 10 rounds. The DA disassembles it into a legal pile of parts once again and then reassembles without the block trying to show an illegal configuration..... except that you never had it in that configuration. Not guilty, everyone goes home.:D

Justintoxicated 01-17-2013 7:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunsarefun (Post 10233187)
It's super simple. It's legal to own the parts. Once assembled with a block, there is no way to get an 11th round in the mag. It is permanently stuck at no more than 10. If it's disassembled it's once again a pile of legal parts.

So the classic "DA in front of a jury trying to get you convicted" scenario. DA takes a legal pile of parts, assembles the mag with the block, and now has what you had. A mag that can't take more than 10 rounds. The DA disassembles it into a legal pile of parts once again and then reassembles without the block trying to show an illegal configuration..... except that you never had it in that configuration. Not guilty, everyone goes home.:D

if they can remove the block from the mag without any tools I don't think it is permanent. If you can without any tools dissemble into parts then reassemble into a 30 rounder, the modification done might not and probably would not be defined as permanent. I'd rather not chance getting a felony, losing my job, and house, and possibly jail time over neglecting to pop in a rivet.

starsnuffer 01-17-2013 7:51 AM

You're forgetting the fact that you're talking about a fixed magazine rifle at this point. The magazine is permanently attached to the rifle. A tool must be used to remove the magazine from the rifle.

-W

Donk310 01-17-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPlink (Post 10231752)
This ain't New York.

Unfortunately it is Kalifornia though.

Justintoxicated 01-17-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starsnuffer (Post 10233351)
You're forgetting the fact that you're talking about a fixed magazine rifle at this point. The magazine is permanently attached to the rifle. A tool must be used to remove the magazine from the rifle.

-W

1) You don't have necessarily to remove the magazine to pull off the plate and remove the block.
2) The hi capacity magazine law is separate from the AW law, in that the magazine does not need to be attached to the rifle to make it illegal. Yea, it's pretty impossible to prove in the context of just owning an illegal magazine, but again don't plan on the Jury being standard ("high") capacity magazine owners, or understanding the loop holes.

The definition of "permanent" is what is really up in the air, if you think just having a block makes it permanent enough, fine, just realize that when it comes to being judged by others your interpretation isn't the one that matters. Now is riveted still considered permanent? Is epoxied? It's all up for interpretation, but I do feel that most people would consider those modifications to be permanent so that is that I would continue to do.

rritterson 01-17-2013 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated (Post 10233295)
if they can remove the block from the mag without any tools I don't think it is permanent. If you can without any tools dissemble into parts then reassemble into a 30 rounder, the modification done might not and probably would not be defined as permanent. I'd rather not chance getting a felony, losing my job, and house, and possibly jail time over neglecting to pop in a rivet.

If I were to make 10 rd magazines, I'd use the magpul blockers. Since they replace the standard 30rd part, if you go out without that extra piece you removed and replaced, there is no way to disassemble and reassemble them into >10rders. I think epoxy and pins are overkill.

I had to remove the epoxy on a 10rd magazine that was blocked with some acrylic plastic that had come loose inside, thus making it a 25 rounder. Didn't take more than 25s second with a knife to cut through the epoxy layer and pry the base plate off. If a jury is so against you that having to disassemble the magazine and remove a block isn't permanent, the extra 25 seconds to use a knife to cut the epoxy isn't going to help you either.

Ryan in SD 01-17-2013 3:09 PM

Way to go noob :-p

gunsarefun 01-17-2013 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated (Post 10233295)
if they can remove the block from the mag without any tools I don't think it is permanent. If you can without any tools dissemble into parts then reassemble into a 30 rounder, the modification done might not and probably would not be defined as permanent. I'd rather not chance getting a felony, losing my job, and house, and possibly jail time over neglecting to pop in a rivet.

I think the only topic debated more than what "permanent" is, is "AR vs. AK.";)

And Rritterson made a good point that I had forgotten, when you are using Pmags with their blocks, you actually toss the bottom sping plate. Without that plate, you can't assemble it into a functioning magazine without the block anyway.


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