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-   -   Glock drops shells on head (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=679489)

Charlie50 01-15-2013 8:35 AM

Glock drops shells on head
 
Ok you Glock expert gun plumber type guys, I just purchased a Glock 19, works pretty good for me but tends to eject shell casings towards my right shoulder. When my wife was shooting it the casings were mostly falling right on her, hitting her head. I got her using a firmer grip but still tended to hit her or just miss her shoulder. I was using Federal FMJ target loads. Hornady personal defense loads seemed to eject a little further. We are right handed. Never owned a Glock before (avoided the cool aid) and was wondering if this is typical or does this unit have a problem?

Freq18Hz 01-15-2013 8:41 AM

Extractor/spring needs to be tuned and or matched better. Common problem with all semi-auto pistols that aren't set up right for the load, and strength of recoil spring. Typically cheaper pistols have these kinds of issues, but they happen on expensive guns as well, just not as often. You can try a different load, but I would send it back to Glock.

-Freq

mr00jimbo 01-15-2013 8:48 AM

Is it a gen 3 or gen 4? The new Gen 4 recoil spring and ejector combinations had some problems out of the gate. brass to the head/face is a problem many shooters with newer Glock 9s face. Glock has made different recoil springs and ejectors to improve this problem, some worked, some did not.
Call Glock up and they will take it back and make it right. :)

Charlie50 01-15-2013 8:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr00jimbo (Post 10216242)
Is it a gen 3 or gen 4? The new Gen 4 recoil spring and ejector combinations had some problems out of the gate. brass to the head/face is a problem many shooters with newer Glock 9s face. Glock has made different recoil springs and ejectors to improve this problem, some worked, some did not.
Call Glock up and they will take it back and make it right. :)

Its a spankin new Gen 3.

UPDATE: Just got off phone, I could send in and will be 2-3 weeks. I could take it to a certified glock armorer and it would be less time. The tech claimed that it will likey improve on its own with simply more rounds, allowing the recoils spring to "condition".. get a bit softer. Does this sound like BS or should I just get it fixed?

DVSmith 01-15-2013 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie50 (Post 10216256)
Its a spankin new Gen 3.

UPDATE: Just got off phone, I could send in and will be 2-3 weeks. I could take it to a certified glock armorer and it would be less time. The tech claimed that it will likey improve on its own with simply more rounds, allowing the recoils spring to "condition".. get a bit softer. Does this sound like BS or should I just get it fixed?

After working with Kimber and Springfield on a couple of issues with brand new guns, I run a few hundred rounds through a new gun now and clean it a few times before I send it back. Kimber wants 400, but I hate wasting that much ammo to see if something wears in. So, I would give it a try.

Charlie50 01-15-2013 9:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVSmith (Post 10216638)
After working with Kimber and Springfield on a couple of issues with brand new guns, I run a few hundred rounds through a new gun now and clean it a few times before I send it back. Kimber wants 400, but I hate wasting that much ammo to see if something wears in. So, I would give it a try.

I hear you, I tried to talk the tech into sending me a certificate for a few boxes of ammo to "fix" their Glock... no dice on that. Maybe I should go on up to the range and "waste" some 9mm today. I am doing this hardship;) for my wife... right? ;)

INFAMOUS762X39 01-15-2013 9:56 AM

I have a brand new G19 Gen3 that had this issue as well, it's called Brass to the Face/Erratic Ejections.

This solution tooks weeks of research and a month of trial and error. All the "Glock Armorers" I asked here on calguns said it was my ammo/recoil spring. Which is/was not the issue at all. I wanted to figure out the issue myself without sending it in to Glock.

THIS isn't a Definative Answer, since Glock refuses to admit this issue. But it is my answer since it stop BTTF immediately for me 110% improvement. A rare few who have done the same said it made it worse. Here is the basic run-down.

G19 Gen3 are a hit or miss when it comes to being in spec or not. I/we found out the hard way, constant BTTF on my new G19. What the issue is the old/sharp 336 Ejector and out of spec #3 Dipped Extractor made out of MIM. Thus casing weak/erratic ejections.

I replaced both parts. I bought a Gen4 9mm Trigger Housing #30275, and took the updated #30274 Ejector out from the Gen4 housing and installed it in my stock Gen3 Trigger housing. I also ditched the old dipped extractor for a #4 Non-Dipped LCI OEM 9mm Extractor, which I think is Carbon steel/in spec.

Gen4 Trigger Housing is like 8$
#4 9mm OEM Extractor is like 18$

Fixed my problem immediately, all spent casings now eject 4 o'clock all day.

Any questions feel free to ask away.

DVSmith 01-15-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INFAMOUS762X39 (Post 10216765)
I have a brand new G19 Gen3 that had this issue as well, it's called Brass to the Face/Erratic Ejections.

This solution tooks weeks of research and a month of trial and error. All the "Glock Armorers" I asked here on calguns said it was my ammo/recoil spring. Which is/was not the issue at all. I wanted to figure out the issue myself without sending it in to Glock.

THIS isn't a Definative Answer, since Glock refuses to admit this issue. But it is my answer since it stop BTTF immediately for me 110% improvement. A rare few who have done the same said it made it worse. Here is the basic run-down.

G19 Gen3 are a hit or miss when it comes to being in spec or not. I/we found out the hard way, constant BTTF on my new G19. What the issue is the old/sharp 336 Ejector and out of spec #3 Dipped Extractor made out of MIM. Thus casing weak/erratic ejections.

I replaced both parts. I bought a Gen4 9mm Trigger Housing #30275, and took the updated #30274 Ejector out from the Gen4 housing and installed it in my stock Gen3 Trigger housing. I also ditched the old dipped extractor for a #4 Non-Dipped LCI OEM 9mm Extractor, which I think is Carbon steel/in spec.

Gen4 Trigger Housing is like 8$
#4 9mm OEM Extractor is like 18$

Fixed my problem immediately, all spent casings now eject 4 o'clock all day.

Any questions feel free to ask away.

Did you try each part independently? Did either change the characteristic of the brass ejection? For good or worse?

9mmepiphany 01-15-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie50
was wondering if this is typical or does this unit have a problem?

I wouldn't call it typical, but it certainly wouldn't be called uncommon either.

It is common enough that the coined term for it is Brass To Face (BTF)...so at least you know it isn't just your gun.

My friend's Gen3 didn't start until after 1000 rounds and he sent it back to the fcatory of their dime. When returned, the problem was worst and he sent it back again. They replaced it with a new G19 and we're going to shoot it some next Friday.

So it cost him another DROS fee, but at least they picked up shipping...which I've been reading they won't always do. If they don't, it's $60 each time and they don't guaranty that it will fix the problem...which they don't admit is a design problem.

There are a number of stop gaps using a combination of swapped extractor and ejectors which might work...at least they are cheap

tal3nt 01-15-2013 11:04 AM

For some reason, whether it's the fact that we eventually figure out the key to properly shooting a glock, or if it's the recoil spring/extractor/ejector getting broken in and worn in all the right spots, over time the issue eventually subsides (for the most part). I get hit in the head still every now and then, but its gotten very rare (and I shoot primarily less hotter reloaded rounds). Notice how it'll happen every time when you shoot one handed. A lot of it has to do with a firm, and I mean firm, grip. Many people claim to have found the fix: gen4 ejector housing, apex extractor, non-dipped extractor, ect., but I don't think it's an issue that needs to be "fixed". It never happens when I use factory loads. Even the lower end stuff. Congrats on your new glock!

SarcoBlaster 01-15-2013 11:05 AM

Making it hail!

paul0660 01-15-2013 11:12 AM

Sounds perfect to me.

shadowofnight 01-15-2013 11:14 AM

Its so they can have a small amount of your dna on each case before it hits the floor. ;)

Lead Waster 01-15-2013 12:01 PM

If it were me, I'd wear a sombrero because I reload used brass and that would make life simpler.

chonkey 01-15-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INFAMOUS762X39 (Post 10216765)
I have a brand new G19 Gen3 that had this issue as well, it's called Brass to the Face/Erratic Ejections.

This solution tooks weeks of research and a month of trial and error. All the "Glock Armorers" I asked here on calguns said it was my ammo/recoil spring. Which is/was not the issue at all. I wanted to figure out the issue myself without sending it in to Glock.

THIS isn't a Definative Answer, since Glock refuses to admit this issue. But it is my answer since it stop BTTF immediately for me 110% improvement. A rare few who have done the same said it made it worse. Here is the basic run-down.

G19 Gen3 are a hit or miss when it comes to being in spec or not. I/we found out the hard way, constant BTTF on my new G19. What the issue is the old/sharp 336 Ejector and out of spec #3 Dipped Extractor made out of MIM. Thus casing weak/erratic ejections.

I replaced both parts. I bought a Gen4 9mm Trigger Housing #30275, and took the updated #30274 Ejector out from the Gen4 housing and installed it in my stock Gen3 Trigger housing. I also ditched the old dipped extractor for a #4 Non-Dipped LCI OEM 9mm Extractor, which I think is Carbon steel/in spec.

Gen4 Trigger Housing is like 8$
#4 9mm OEM Extractor is like 18$

Fixed my problem immediately, all spent casings now eject 4 o'clock all day.

Any questions feel free to ask away.

The only thing that's been known to consistently fix BTTF is using the Apex kit but the one that's out is designed for Gen4's. Last I heard they're developing specifically for Gen3 (yes this issue affects both Gen3 and Gen4 9mm). FYI I've got a Gen4 with 30274 ejector and replacing with Lone Wolf extractor helped but didn't totally fix the issue. If you can get a hold of an armorer that would probably be the cheapest way to get this resolved. If you send it to Glock they're going to make you pay for shipping.

super_chief 01-15-2013 12:34 PM

sounds like she needs her own Glock

R_L_S 01-15-2013 12:47 PM

Stop holding it sideways...? :p

Shenaniguns 01-15-2013 1:37 PM

Sounds like you need Apex Tactical's extractor like I did.

harleygsb 01-15-2013 2:04 PM

I had the same issue with a new G17 I bought in May. I took it to a local amorer with no improvement and sent it to Glock. It came back worse. I sent it back and requested a new gun. When the new gun showed up at my local gun shop, I asked if they would exchange it for a new M&P 9. They agreed and I have been totally happy with the M&P (after an Apex DCAEK installation).

The BTF does not show up on every gun, but it happens far more often than one would expect.

Sam 01-15-2013 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenaniguns (Post 10218519)
Sounds like you need Apex Tactical's extractor like I did.

I guess I got lucky initially with my Gen 4 because I had only a couple of erratic ejections in the first 100 or so rounds. The gun would eject reliably to the 4 o'clock position. After a few hundred more rounds I installed an Apex extractor and the brass was being ejected strongly to the 4 o'clock to the same exact foot wide circle. Ultimately I don't know if I needed it, but it sure didn't hurt anything.

INFAMOUS762X39 01-15-2013 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVSmith (Post 10216975)
Did you try each part independently? Did either change the characteristic of the brass ejection? For good or worse?

Yes, 1st I swapped extractors and left the old 336 Ejector alone. Tested it with 200Rds of Commercial Ammo "WWB+Federal", a few stray casings but no more Constant BTTF. It was a good change, but I was not satisfied. 2nd I swapped Ejectors. Now she ejects 4 o'clock all day.

Even though I have spare RSAs in my tool box, I am still using my Stock Recoil Spring and it's GTG.

Besides Sights and maybe the Connector, I try to keep everything OEM parts.

Munny$hot 01-15-2013 4:15 PM

video record her shooting I bet that when fired the muzzle of the gun is near 1-2 o'clock position causing the shells to hit her on the head. Try standing square to the target, shooting hand slightly bent support hand straight forward, slight tightening her arms (without death gripping the gun), both shoulders forward as far as possible, slight lean forward (without stick out her butt), weight on the balls of her feet, tightening her core on respiratory pause, consistent trigger pull to the rear with her trigger finger.

bohoki 01-15-2013 5:14 PM

my 17 occasionally whangs one right into my forehead its so random at least that brass lands close so i can reload it

Charlie50 01-15-2013 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munny$hot (Post 10219798)
video record her shooting I bet that when fired the muzzle of the gun is near 1-2 o'clock position causing the shells to hit her on the head. Try standing square to the target, shooting hand slightly bent support hand straight forward, slight tightening her arms (without death gripping the gun), both shoulders forward as far as possible, slight lean forward (without stick out her butt), weight on the balls of her feet, tightening her core on respiratory pause, consistent trigger pull to the rear with her trigger finger.

I appreciate what you're saying, but like I said pretty much same result with me shooting (old guy, pretty decent, used to be competive shooter) :oji:. Seems to me shells should not be hitting me on my shoulder. Never owned a Glock but thought I needed a "down in the dirt" dependable mcpistol. Not working out that way and seems I am not the lone (pickyass) ranger. I'm sending it to an armorer.

rmatt 01-15-2013 5:55 PM

apex extractor will cure all.

tbc 01-15-2013 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmatt (Post 10220758)
apex extractor will cure all.

This.

But I didn't bother replacing it. My g19 gen4 has all OEM parts in it and after 600 rounds or so, the BTF goes away.



Sent from iPhone through Tapatalk

sdallace 01-15-2013 7:15 PM

mine drops casings right on top of my head landing perfectly in my hair. i consider it a trick. didn't bother me till i read this thread.... now it kinda does...

EWILKE 01-15-2013 7:40 PM

between the eyes
 
my G19 would send the brass straight back and hit me between the eyes but after 500 or so rounds it is running normal now.

Charlie50 01-15-2013 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWILKE (Post 10221913)
my G19 would send the brass straight back and hit me between the eyes but after 500 or so rounds it is running normal now.

But the question here is are you still running normal after so many hits to the face? :D Could not help myself, sorry.

Gugs 01-15-2013 11:56 PM

What are the first 3-letters of your s/n? My recently purchased Gen-3 G19 is a "TTS" (pretty recent production) and it functions perfectly.

Shenaniguns 01-16-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 10218903)
I guess I got lucky initially with my Gen 4 because I had only a couple of erratic ejections in the first 100 or so rounds. The gun would eject reliably to the 4 o'clock position. After a few hundred more rounds I installed an Apex extractor and the brass was being ejected strongly to the 4 o'clock to the same exact foot wide circle. Ultimately I don't know if I needed it, but it sure didn't hurt anything.


I still have some breaking in to do on my Gen 4 G17 before I know if it needs it, I'll eventually throw one in anyways since I have the prototype unused.

And damn man, I can't believe I'm still forgetting to send you the GFA's :o I'm going to ask my Wife to remind me.

Lumpia is sarap! 01-16-2013 10:27 AM

I'd just keep shooting it. My Gen4G17 did that after the first hundred rounds and it doesn't do it anymore. Don't ask me why.

newguy83 01-18-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie50 (Post 10216256)
Its a spankin new Gen 3.

UPDATE: Just got off phone, I could send in and will be 2-3 weeks. I could take it to a certified glock armorer and it would be less time. The tech claimed that it will likey improve on its own with simply more rounds, allowing the recoils spring to "condition".. get a bit softer. Does this sound like BS or should I just get it fixed?

I guarantee the following will fix your problem:

1) Purchase this: http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pro....E.D.-9mm.html

2) Purchase this: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.a...123268&CAT=200


You will need a pair of pliers to GENTLY remove the 30274 ejector arm from the Gen4 housing that you ordered. Once it is out, put it in your Gen3 housing. Also make sure you install the HRED backwards from the stock plunger configuration.

No need for an APEX extractor.

Shenaniguns 01-18-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy83 (Post 10246572)
I guarantee the following will fix your problem:

1) Purchase this: http://www.whitesounddefense.com/pro....E.D.-9mm.html

2) Purchase this: http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.a...123268&CAT=200


You will need a pair of pliers to GENTLY remove the 30274 ejector arm from the Gen4 housing that you ordered. Once it is out, put it in your Gen3 housing. Also make sure you install the HRED backwards from the stock plunger configuration.

No need for an APEX extractor.



There are dozens of people who I know of that did NOT have that combination fix the ejection issue for them. I only tested the HRED as I was sent the incorrect LWD extractor. There is a lot of engineering and testing behind Apex's extractor and I'm proud to be a small piece of it and for it to fix almost every problem gun out there by dropping it in. Others needed fitting.

SB1964 01-18-2013 12:51 PM

I would buy the Parts suggested & Install yourself, VERY easy! I would NOT send back to Glock, like plenty have done "on Principle" & fail on results. Plenty have with poor or same result. Never send a Firearm, or a Slide, if it isn't absolutely necessary!!! If you need help, PM me, easy to walk someone thru.

9mmlove 01-18-2013 2:45 PM

I got a brand new gen3 g19 and never had any brass to the face yet, knock on wood;)

Sam 01-18-2013 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenaniguns (Post 10227329)
I still have some breaking in to do on my Gen 4 G17 before I know if it needs it, I'll eventually throw one in anyways since I have the prototype unused.

And damn man, I can't believe I'm still forgetting to send you the GFA's :o I'm going to ask my Wife to remind me.

Heh, don't worry about it! I went to MTG yesterday to get sights fitted to my new G34 Gen4. Nice place! Do you get a kick back for sending a new customer there? :)

Shenaniguns 01-18-2013 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 10248398)
Heh, don't worry about it! I went to MTG yesterday to get sights fitted to my new G34 Gen4. Nice place! Do you get a kick back for sending a new customer there? :)

No kickback but I get great discounts already :) You should have dropped by tomorrow when I'm there.

Sam 01-18-2013 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenaniguns (Post 10248777)
No kickback but I get great discounts already :) You should have dropped by tomorrow when I'm there.

Thought about it, but I couldn't wait!

jink122 01-18-2013 5:52 PM

I had a few problems with the Gen4, didn't know it was happening in the GEn3. Doesnt sound like BS, sometimes u gotta break in the gun.

Here's my write up in case ur interested
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=682252


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