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-   -   My noob mistake! Help me fix OAL problem. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=672939)

JackRydden224 01-07-2013 7:51 AM

My noob mistake! Help me fix OAL problem.
 
I'm new a reloading and I made a noob mistake that cost me probably about 600 rounds of 9mm. Here goes.

My first loads were 115gr plated bullets. I got it setup and fired 150 problem free rounds so I proceeded to finish the rest. When I ran out of plated bullets I switched to 125 gr lead bullets. I only changed the powder charge but did not realize that I would have to adjust the OAL of the round! DUMB NOOB!

I found out it was a problem when I dropped a round in the chamber to see how well it sits and guess what, it is too damn long!

Err....


Now that I'm loading .45 ACP I have several different test loads with different OAL to see which ones work. I guess you learn from you mistakes. :o

Dark Mod 01-07-2013 8:32 AM

I think everyone does stuff like that when they first start. I remember loading 500 .357 magnum rounds with plated bullets using data for jacketed bullets.... I realized my mistake before i got a chance to shoot any of them and had to pull them all. I got tired of pulling bullets about 60 rounds into it and to this day there sits a box under my bench with 400+ rounds of useless .357 magnum rounds. Ill pull the rest of them some day, its just WAY on the bottom of the priorities list.

burndup 01-07-2013 8:38 AM

Uhhm... from one noob to another, why can't you just re-seat them a little deeper?

Or are they crimped?

BigBronco 01-07-2013 8:39 AM

No real problem. If they are too long simply go back to the press and push them deeper with your seating die.

SandDiegoDuner 01-07-2013 9:36 AM

No no he is better off dumping those rounds off on me for proper disposal. Don't worry I will be a nice guy and not even charge you for having to pull all those bullets and to dump all that powder and to reassemble them with my spec load for my girlfriend to shoot in her pistol.

JackRydden224 01-07-2013 9:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burndup (Post 10135570)
Uhhm... from one noob to another, why can't you just re-seat them a little deeper?

Or are they crimped?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBronco (Post 10135577)
No real problem. If they are too long simply go back to the press and push them deeper with your seating die.

They have already been crimped though...can I just pop them back and reseat them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Mod (Post 10135523)
I think everyone does stuff like that when they first start. I remember loading 500 .357 magnum rounds with plated bullets using data for jacketed bullets.... I realized my mistake before i got a chance to shoot any of them and had to pull them all. I got tired of pulling bullets about 60 rounds into it and to this day there sits a box under my bench with 400+ rounds of useless .357 magnum rounds. Ill pull the rest of them some day, its just WAY on the bottom of the priorities list.

You are right Mark. The idea of pulling out 600 rounds of loaded ammo just isn't a good way to spend time. I might want to ask Serge if he has some sort of special machine can do it if I cannot jut pop them under the seating die and get them in deeper.

Dark Mod 01-07-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRydden224 (Post 10136182)
They have already been crimped though...can I just pop them back and reseat them?



You are right Mark. The idea of pulling out 600 rounds of loaded ammo just isn't a good way to spend time. I might want to ask Serge if he has some sort of special machine can do it if I cannot jut pop them under the seating die and get them in deeper.

If they are crimped your gonna shave lead, not a world ender but its not worth it. Might as well pull them at your leisure. You could always buy a collet puller and it would make relatively short work of the project.

JackRydden224 01-07-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Mod (Post 10136547)
If they are crimped your gonna shave lead, not a world ender but its not worth it. Might as well pull them at your leisure. You could always buy a collet puller and it would make relatively short work of the project.

From what I've found collect pullers cannot be used with lead. I guess my best best is to either leave it alone or pull them out one by one.

You know I'll never make that mistake again!

call-in 01-07-2013 10:54 AM

I guess it will depend on how much crimp was applied. If the crimp was just enough to take the bell out then I would try re-seating a few to see how it goes. I'm pretty sure you'll still have shavings, but it might not be much and you could use them for plinking.

Laythor 01-07-2013 11:00 AM

sounds like you'd lose the bullet but save the case, powder, and primer...

kmca 01-07-2013 11:04 AM

If you have the proper crimp now, reseating the bullet deeper shouldn't shave anything, especially if they are plated. I've never had good luck trying to pull either lead or plated bullets with a collet type puller. If you had put a roll crimp on those bullets, then you might have a problem.

Larryect 01-07-2013 11:17 AM

Don't ask me how I know. But, with a collet type bullet puller in a single stage press, pulling 600 rounds apart isn't too bad. Not like trying to use an impact puller.......

morrow 01-07-2013 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmca (Post 10136829)
If you have the proper crimp now, reseating the bullet deeper shouldn't shave anything, especially if they are plated. I've never had good luck trying to pull either lead or plated bullets with a collet type puller. If you had put a roll crimp on those bullets, then you might have a problem.

What he said, but 9mm should not be roll crimp. Ever. It headspaces off the case mouth.
If you did the proper "removing the bell" (taper crimp) you should be able to seat the lead bullets deeper with little to no shaving.

JackRydden224 01-07-2013 1:06 PM

From reading this thread I see that I'm not the only one who has made this mistake :D

I'll pop a round in to re-seat it and see what happens. Carbides are tough, the worst thing that happens is that I lose the round that was already unshootable.

tackdriver 01-07-2013 1:48 PM

You dont need to pull the bullet UNLESS you crimped it so tight you shave lead when you reseat. Just adjust the die and run them through again. Be thankful for all that extra arm excercise you'll be getting!

stilly 01-07-2013 2:11 PM

Dare I say that this is why new reloaders should not practice on a progressive until they get some good habbits down?

Also, as long as the minimum oal is met I see no real issues. but of course if it does not fit then yeah, too long, but if you never adjusted the oal why would it have gotten longer?

JackRydden224 01-07-2013 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stilly (Post 10138486)
Dare I say that this is why new reloaders should not practice on a progressive until they get some good habbits down?

Also, as long as the minimum oal is met I see no real issues. but of course if it does not fit then yeah, too long, but if you never adjusted the oal why would it have gotten longer?

I switched to a different bullet after 300-400 rounds. What is strange is that when I used Dillon's head space gauge it was fine but when I dropped in the barrel it wasn't. I must be missing something.

morrow 01-07-2013 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRydden224 (Post 10138661)
I switched to a different bullet after 300-400 rounds. What is strange is that when I used Dillon's head space gauge it was fine but when I dropped in the barrel it wasn't. I must be missing something.

What is the current COAL of the bullets that "don't work"?

BACKTOSHOOTING 01-07-2013 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrow (Post 10139634)
What is the current COAL of the bullets that "don't work"?

Check this first, also measure your case mouth diamiter with the lead bulllets it might be bigger and not tapering down far enough

JackRydden224 01-07-2013 9:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morrow (Post 10139634)
What is the current COAL of the bullets that "don't work"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BACKTOSHOOTING (Post 10140157)
Check this first, also measure your case mouth diamiter with the lead bulllets it might be bigger and not tapering down far enough

Gotcha, what do I do if that is the case? Do I need to adjust the belling of the casing the allow the bullet to be seated deeper?

By the way, I've learned that I am not going to reload more .45 ACP until I get my 1911 out of jail and confirm the rounds fit properly....

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net 01-07-2013 9:34 PM

Before you do anything, take one of the loaded rounds and try seating the bullet to the proper depth. If you're going to shave lead, it will be obvious. If you shave enough that the cartridges will not chamber properly, you've got a lot of bullets to pull.

If you do shave a little lead but not enough to prevent chambering, take 10 of them to the range and shoot them. If your group is not noticeably different than your other rounds (evaluate group size not placement) then repeat the process on the rest of them. You may have a couple that shave too much, oh well. That's better than pulling 400 rounds.

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net 01-07-2013 9:34 PM

Before you do anything, take one of the loaded rounds and try seating the bullet to the proper depth. If you're going to shave lead, it will be obvious. If you shave enough that the cartridges will not chamber properly, you've got a lot of bullets to pull.

If you do shave a little lead but not enough to prevent chambering, take 10 of them to the range and shoot them. If your group is not noticeably different than your other rounds (evaluate group size not placement) then repeat the process on the rest of them. You may have a couple that shave too much, oh well. That's better than pulling 400 rounds.

JNunez23 01-07-2013 10:01 PM

Don't feel too bad, it happens. I just smashed about 20 Hornady 60 grain hollow points trying to figure out the proper crimp.

Paid a few bucks for that lesson, it happens.

stilly 01-08-2013 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRydden224 (Post 10138661)
I switched to a different bullet after 300-400 rounds. What is strange is that when I used Dillon's head space gauge it was fine but when I dropped in the barrel it wasn't. I must be missing something.


The only thing that I can think of is that maybe the ogive or shape of the noce allowed it to sit at a different position in the seating die and as a result did not get pushed down as far.

But that is a technical reason and I do not know how I manged to say that this late at night...

heh... Switched from round nose to truncated cone perhaps? When I get a progressinve I plan to prolly teast/measure my first 10 rounds when I change powders or bullets as I figure that that should be a good thing to do to minimize jacked up loads.

I also agree that pulling that many bullets takes the fun out of reloading. Too bad they were not fmj...

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net 01-08-2013 5:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Mod (Post 10135523)
I think everyone does stuff like that when they first start. I remember loading 500 .357 magnum rounds with plated bullets using data for jacketed bullets.... I realized my mistake before i got a chance to shoot any of them and had to pull them all. I got tired of pulling bullets about 60 rounds into it and to this day there sits a box under my bench with 400+ rounds of useless .357 magnum rounds. Ill pull the rest of them some day, its just WAY on the bottom of the priorities list.

Just a thought... I'm sure these are well marked so that its obvious to everyone these are defective and should not be fired.

JackRydden224 01-08-2013 7:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stilly (Post 10144374)
The only thing that I can think of is that maybe the ogive or shape of the noce allowed it to sit at a different position in the seating die and as a result did not get pushed down as far.

But that is a technical reason and I do not know how I manged to say that this late at night...

heh... Switched from round nose to truncated cone perhaps? When I get a progressinve I plan to prolly teast/measure my first 10 rounds when I change powders or bullets as I figure that that should be a good thing to do to minimize jacked up loads.

I also agree that pulling that many bullets takes the fun out of reloading. Too bad they were not fmj...

I did switch from a round nose to a cone shaped bullet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdarrin@sbcglobal.net (Post 10144832)
Just a thought... I'm sure these are well marked so that its obvious to everyone these are defective and should not be fired.

I did separate them. It was fairly easy because one is plated round nose and the other is cone shaped lead...

I'm gonna take some pictures and do some measuring when I get home today.

call-in 01-08-2013 7:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stilly (Post 10144374)
When I get a progressinve I plan to prolly teast/measure my first 10 rounds when I change powders or bullets as I figure that that should be a good thing to do to minimize jacked up loads.

I have a turret press and I measure the first 2-3 rounds and then once every 30 rounds or so of every session, is that considered OCD? I've only reloaded 9mm and just starting on .40.

JackRydden224 01-08-2013 10:12 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Okay here are the measurements done with a digital caliper and a picture

Bullet length:
Plated: 0.548 inches
Lead: 0.618 inches

COAL:
Plated: 1.145 inches
Lead: 1.136 inches




Attachment 191536

Attachment 191540

Attachment 191541

bruceflinch 01-10-2013 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larryect (Post 10136932)
Don't ask me how I know. But, with a collet type bullet puller in a single stage press, pulling 600 rounds apart isn't too bad. Not like trying to use an impact puller.......

I don't know what you're talking about, but
:iagree: :o

elhefe50ss 01-10-2013 8:51 AM

i did the same thing dont feel bad :facepalm:

five.five-six 01-10-2013 8:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by call-in (Post 10136743)
I guess it will depend on how much crimp was applied. If the crimp was just enough to take the bell out then I would try re-seating a few to see how it goes. I'm pretty sure you'll still have shavings, but it might not be much and you could use them for plinking.

Yes, that. |

JackRydden224 01-10-2013 9:44 AM

So judging by the data and pictures what did I do wrong?

bruceflinch 01-10-2013 2:00 PM

^Yes the bullet is not seated deep enough. The ogive (widest part of the nose) is preventing you from chambering the round. Your loading manual should give you a OAL for that style of bullet.

five.five-six 01-10-2013 3:13 PM

I read this in a manual and what I do is to back the crimp way out of my die and seat my bullet, see how it seats in my barrel, adjust the seating nob turn, check fit to my barrel and keep repeating that cycle until the cartridge seats properly.

Make sure the ammo fits in my magazine and feeds with that OAL

Once I get the OAL that works with that bullet in my barrel I back the seating nob way out, put the round in the shell holder and run the ram up, and then adjust the die for crimp.

Once I get the crimp I want, then I bring the seating nob down to touch the top of the bullet.

Now my die is setup for my gun with that bullet

five.five-six 01-10-2013 3:13 PM

I read this in a manual and what I do is to back the crimp way out of my die and seat my bullet, see how it seats in my barrel, adjust the seating nob turn, check fit to my barrel and keep repeating that cycle until the cartridge seats properly.

Make sure the ammo fits in my magazine and feeds with that OAL

Once I get the OAL that works with that bullet in my barrel I back the seating nob way out, put the round in the shell holder and run the ram up, and then adjust the die for crimp.

Once I get the crimp I want, then I bring the seating nob down to touch the top of the bullet.

Now my die is setup for my gun with that bullet

Larryect 01-10-2013 3:40 PM

Setting the bullet deeper will increase pressure. depending on your powder load, it could become excessive unless adjusted.

epcii 01-10-2013 5:50 PM

I've done that with about 300 rounds of .223. We all make mistakes at some point. Best and quickest way to fix it is to get a bullet puller die.

epcii 01-10-2013 5:50 PM

I've done that with about 300 rounds of .223. We all make mistakes at some point. Best and quickest way to fix it is to get a bullet puller die.

csburtch 01-10-2013 7:41 PM

Been there done that. I know it doesn't makem fit your chamber to hear that, but that is how we all make learn to double and triple check our work. I once loaded 300 6.8 spc rounds that weren't resized properly. Manually taking those apart learned me a valuable lesson in starting from scratch every time you change calibers. Good luck with your learning curve. It's very rewarding when you get it right.

wpage 01-13-2013 3:30 AM

Boring out your barrel is not recomended...

Write it off as experience lesson.


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