Calguns.net

Calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php)
-   Ammo and Reloading (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=89)
-   -   9mm Recipe for a beginner (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=664251)

lowend65 12-26-2012 7:59 PM

9mm Recipe for a beginner
 
My reloading press et all is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow (thanks to Randall's list) and I'm super excited.

I went out and bought bullets and power today before looking at my Lyman Reloading Guide. My guide does not show a specific combo for what I bought. Yeah, I know kinda stupid... figured if I bought common powder and common bullets that it was sure to be in the guide.

I'm completely new to this, and am unsure if FMJ needs a different powder charge than JHP

What I have:
  • CCI 500 Small Pistol Primers
  • Hodgdon TiteGroup Powder
  • Hornady 115 Grain .355" Bullets (#35557)
  • A whole lot of used brass

I've found data on Hodgdon's website showing a 4.3 grain load. But that's for a Spr GDHP
Is this going to be the same with a Hornady FMJ?

Sorry for the noob question, I'm pretty intimidated by this process.

Gio 12-26-2012 8:21 PM

Hodgon's Site has this up for 115LRN which is the same recipe I used I believe.
  • Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

  • 115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.100" 3.9 1075 25,800 CUP 4.3 1151 30,500 CUP

Bill Steele 12-26-2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowend65 (Post 10023643)
My reloading press et all is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow (thanks to Randall's list) and I'm super excited.

I went out and bought bullets and power today before looking at my Lyman Reloading Guide. My guide does not show a specific combo for what I bought. Yeah, I know kinda stupid... figured if I bought common powder and common bullets that it was sure to be in the guide.

I'm completely new to this, and am unsure if FMJ needs a different powder charge than JHP

What I have:
  • CCI 500 Small Pistol Primers
  • Hodgdon TiteGroup Powder
  • Hornady 115 Grain .355" Bullets (#35557)
  • A whole lot of used brass

I've found data on Hodgdon's website showing a 4.3 grain load. But that's for a Spr GDHP
Is this going to be the same with a Hornady FMJ?

Sorry for the noob question, I'm pretty intimidated by this process.

You will be fine with that load to start. You picked a particularly temperamental powder to load as your first powder. It is dense, so you will likely be able to double charge without overfilling the case, so keep an eye on your powder drop, make sure you have the right amount of powder in that case before you set the bullet.

Good luck, be careful, when in doubt there is no doubt, pull it. ;)

johnny1290 12-26-2012 10:51 PM

Is that 4.3 max load or recommended load or ?

Me personally I'd back off that 10% start out at 3.9ish load up 25 then go a little moreand make 25 and etc.

Once I got good reliable cycling I'd consider that my base load, and then go hotter if I wanted velocity or was looking for greater accuracy or whatever.

Me personally I like the soft loads. I shoot them better with less wear and tear on the wrists. I started out wanting loads similar to factory crap, for some reason.

You got good advice above. I shot a bunch of squibs before I wised up and got a little light to shine in each case. I tape one of those flex head $3 lights above the bullet seatnig die. Works for me.

I'm sure you're smarter than me but it took me a long time to figure out what I was doing. The big things are *don't double charge* but even more than that, if you fire and don't strike the target, or it doesn't cycle, or powder falls out of the chamber LOL(done that!), or you just have a hunch, check the barrel to make sure there's no bullet lodged in there. I just do a quick field strip and hold up the barrel. It's much less embarassing than blowing up your gun! :-)

It took me a long time to get the hang of it, and I just realized today that I loaded up 1000 bullets with too light a charge!

Oh yeah, that's another thing I always forget, don't load up a million bullets until you're absolutely sure of the load. I've got thousaands of rounds kicking around here that I no longer like the recipe, but only decided that after I made a ton of them. Live and learn.

ptmn 12-26-2012 10:52 PM

I agree with Bill Steele, that load should be fine and make sure you don't double charge. I use Titegroup for my 9mm 124gr FMJ loads. I use 4.2gr, WSP primers and I seat my 124gr FMJ's to 1.135" Because the 9mm case is so small and Titegroup is such a fast burner, make sure that you do not seat your rounds too deep or it will cause pressure spikes. Cross reference your load with a reputable manual or the manufactures website to obtain an overall length that will not spike the pressures. Have fun loading, it's a lot of fun. I've been doing it for over 20 years and I love it. It's my way of relaxing.

Gio 12-26-2012 10:54 PM

If you read the chart/whateverthehell you want to call it, it starts off at 3.9 with a max of 4.3 :shifty:

Turbinator 12-26-2012 11:22 PM

I dunno about everyone else, but I always find backing off a whole 10% produces underpowered loads for me. I might back off a few grains, for example if the recipe calls for 4.3, I might start around 4.0.. not quite 10%. After all, I think we're finding that so-called "max" loads in these books aren't really max loads any more.

Turby

ptmn 12-27-2012 1:23 AM

So here is the data directly from the Hogdon website for the 125gr FMJ: Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.090" 4.1 1069 27,300 CUP 4.4 1136 30,600 CUP

I use a longer overall length of 1.135", which lowers pressure and provides more reliable feeding in my guns. My load uses 4.2 gr of Titegroup and a 124gr FMJ. I'm quite happy with it.

stphnman20 12-27-2012 6:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbinator (Post 10025331)
I dunno about everyone else, but I always find backing off a whole 10% produces underpowered loads for me. I might back off a few grains, for example if the recipe calls for 4.3, I might start around 4.0.. not quite 10%. After all, I think we're finding that so-called "max" loads in these books aren't really max loads any more.

Turby

Same here. If I back off 10%, my Glock won't even cycle.

Op, I use 4.3gr with W231. Like what most people said, work up the load. Don't use anyone's load data.

HighLander51 12-27-2012 6:28 AM

lowend65, you didn't say what kind of press you got, single stage, or progressive auto indexing or progressive manual indexing, but TiteGroup is a fast burning high density powder so you can easily double charge it, so keep an eye on it. Usually recommend a low density powder for newbies so it will spill out the case from a double charge, such as W231. All your loading data is online with the powder manufacturer. Jacketed bullets are the same whether or not they are hollow points, it is the copper jacket (vs lead) that makes the difference. Start with minimum weights and maximum lengths. The goal is to work up a load that is most accurate in your gun. Use the same brass cases for your check loads. Most powder measures will not throw any more than +/- .1 grains accurately, so work your loads in at least .3 grain increments. You will need a calipers for overall length and a case gage to check crimp. The quick setup is to run the seating die and crimping die down on a factory 9mm load, plus a quarter turn for the crimp die. Auto loads head space on the mouth, so that's what the case gage is for. I have been running TiteGroup since it first came out, 4 grains behind a 125 Bear Creek Moly at 1.155" overall, or 4.5 grains behind a 115 Montana Gold at 1.155" overall with whatever primers are the best price at the moment. WW and CCI are what I use most often, including pistol magnum primers, and occasionally Federal, Remington, PMC non toxic, and Tula(harder to seat). My loads run fine on all my Glocks, G19, G17's, G34 and G17L. 125's out of the G17 go about 1,180 fps thru my chrono.

skibuff 12-27-2012 8:06 AM

As many above said careful learning with fast burning powders they are not forgiving. I always recommend Win231 to learn with. Much more margin for error case will overflow with a double charge.

Be careful with OAL don't drop below the Min the case pressure in 9mm goes up fast as the OAL gets shorter.

Be careful of no charge cases the primer has enough power to put the bullet into your barrel.

lowend65 12-27-2012 8:46 AM

It's a Lee Progressive 1000 press with all of the Randall list accessories.
it sounds like I may be wise to go spend $20 on some Win231 to use for my first batch.

I checked my Lyman guide again and found a Titegroup combo (not sure how I missed it earlier)
115 Grain JHP
1.090 OAL
4.0 Grain starting Load 4.5 grain max

There's also a combo for Win 231 based on the same bullet.
starting load 3.5 Gr Max of 4.9

skibuff 12-27-2012 9:12 AM

1.095 is the Minimum OAL. To be safe you might want to increase your OAL to 1.12 as long as it chambers in your gun. Max on 9mm is 1.169.

With Semi auto's make sure you crimp to make sure the bullet doesn't get pushed deeper into the case when chambering. Just a slight crimp is all that is needed. The built in crimp in the seater die will work fine. RCBS has good instructions on how to set the seating die up.

Bill Steele 12-27-2012 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowend65 (Post 10027319)
It's a Lee Progressive 1000 press with all of the Randall list accessories.
it sounds like I may be wise to go spend $20 on some Win231 to use for my first batch.

I checked my Lyman guide again and found a Titegroup combo (not sure how I missed it earlier)
115 Grain JHP
1.090 OAL
4.0 Grain starting Load 4.5 grain max

There's also a combo for Win 231 based on the same bullet.
starting load 3.5 Gr Max of 4.9

I think you will be fine using the Titegroup, you just need to be fastidious in your approach.

The Lee Auto Disk is a very reliable drop, so once you get the weight dialed, you only need to assure nothing went wrong with the powder drop by looking into each case and verifying the powder is there and at the proper level. A nice LED desk lamp shined down in the case will allow you to see exactly what is in the case. A double charge will be apparent if you somehow do it. The Pro 1000 with the chain return is almost impossible to double charge if you fully cycle the lever each time.

Do one round at a time through the whole cycle until you get really comfortable with the operation of the press. If you get in the habit of checking the powder charge by looking into the case before setting the bullet, in no time if something is wrong alarm bells will go off in your head.

I have loaded many tens of thousands of handgun rounds on my Dillon 550B and have never had a squib or double charge, that press doesn't auto index like the Pro 1000, so you can do it. You just have to look.

Good luck, have fun.

Braddah Jay 12-27-2012 9:24 AM

Great info right here!

em9sredbeam 12-27-2012 9:37 AM

With titegroup, start with the min load, because there is not much of a difference between the min and max, and pay close attention to an accidental double charge.

Diabolus 12-27-2012 10:30 AM

Is this for plinking or will you be involved with any of the sporting organizations such as USPSA or IPSC?

lowend65 12-27-2012 10:32 AM

Just plinking loads for now.

Diabolus 12-27-2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowend65 (Post 10028194)
Just plinking loads for now.

Reloading is a lot of fun, and if you ever get involved with competitive shooting you can make custom loads to give you more of an advantage.

jonzer77 12-27-2012 10:59 AM

What kind of gun are you going to be reloading for?

johnny1290 12-27-2012 11:07 AM

Bill Steele is really breaking off the knowledge! He's right on!

As a guy that learned to reload on a pro 1000, I can tell you I would've been better off practicing on a $30 Lee single stage first. I bought one anyway to do rifle on and other stuff, so it wasn't money wasted.

As I'm sure you've heard, the priming is the tricky part of the pro 1000. It actually works just fine once you get it dialed in, I just didn't know what I was doing and mauled primers LOL

I build hotrods(not great or anything) so I have some mechanical skill, and I wanted to throw the press out the window many times.

I couldn't get it over 50 rph for months. Then finally it all clicked and I can do 350 rph no problem.

Bill's right, if you don't want to get a single stage(consider it a class fee), then just do one round at a time so you can focus on the individual stages.

Just a thought. Good luck, you'll figure it out.

Oh! Don't set the chain length unless the ram is all the way down! I've broken that so many times...LOL

jonzer77 12-27-2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Steele (Post 10027571)
I think you will be fine using the Titegroup, you just need to be fastidious in your approach.

The Lee Auto Disk is a very reliable drop, so once you get the weight dialed, you only need to assure nothing went wrong with the powder drop by looking into each case and verifying the powder is there and at the proper level. A nice LED desk lamp shined down in the case will allow you to see exactly what is in the case. A double charge will be apparent if you somehow do it. The Pro 1000 with the chain return is almost impossible to double charge if you fully cycle the lever each time.

Do one round at a time through the whole cycle until you get really comfortable with the operation of the press. If you get in the habit of checking the powder charge by looking into the case before setting the bullet, in no time if something is wrong alarm bells will go off in your head.

I have loaded many tens of thousands of handgun rounds on my Dillon 550B and have never had a squib or double charge, that press doesn't auto index like the Pro 1000, so you can do it. You just have to look.

Good luck, have fun.

I agree with loading one cycle at a time as well so you can learn the process and you will know what doesn't feel right. Another tip for avoiding double charges is to focus only on reloading and don't listen to the radio, watch tv, or try and have a conversation with anyone while reloading. If someone walks in or interrupts you, just stop what your doing and then start over once you are ready again. You can also double charge a case so you can see what it will look like, then immediately dump the double charged case in the hopper.

stand125 12-28-2012 7:19 PM

If you double charge a 9mm with titegroup you will know since the case will be pretty full of powder. The key with Titegroup and 9mm is to make sure that each case has powder in it ( bright light ) and that it is about 1/2 full and not almost full. I love titegroup in all my pistol calibers.

stand125 12-28-2012 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diabolus (Post 10028223)
Reloading is a lot of fun, and if you ever get involved with competitive shooting you can make custom loads to give you more of an advantage.

Yay, over the other guy reloading to give him the advantage:D You will at least be on an even playing field

stator 12-30-2012 7:03 AM

I went into a gun shop on Castro street in Mtn View, many many blue moons ago. I asked the same question, "want to get started in reloading 9mm".

He sold me a RCBS rock chucker kit, some bullets, CCI primers, a reloading book, and Alliant Blue Dot. He said Blue Dot is safer to learn reloading with and once I have some practice, come back and buy some Bullseye. I did and I still reload plinking with Unique which is want most recommend for beginning reloading now. In fact, my locknload is filled with Unique right now.

With that said, I recommend you start out with Unique; particularly if you are also starting out with a progressive press.

Titegroup is too fast for beginning reloading in 9mm, imo.

I have an over-abundance of Unique since I don't reload 20 gauge anymore. You can have 1/2 pound or so if you want.

gotglock99 12-31-2012 2:27 PM

I use 4.1 grns of Titegroup for 115 grns, c.o.l. Of 1.150.

lowend65 01-05-2013 6:08 PM

UPDATE
I actually loaded some rounds today. Had a lot of startup problems, but worked through them. Broke the goddamn powderdrop chain twice... took me 3 hardware stores to find one that was long enough.
Dialing in the powderdrop was easy. Lee's chart was dead on at 4.0 Grains on my scale.
I did 4 successful rounds.
Am having issues with primers not feeding properly, and the powder dropping through the unprimed cases. Started getting frustrated so I stopped around 4pm, but will take another crack at it tomorrow.


One thing I have to say: Lee's instructions SUCK. There is so little information included with the press, it was really frustrating having to come back into the house and watch videos on how to zero the shell plate and tighten the ram screw. This info should really be in the manual

Bill Steele 01-05-2013 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowend65 (Post 10120948)
UPDATE
I actually loaded some rounds today. Had a lot of startup problems, but worked through them. Broke the goddamn powderdrop chain twice... took me 3 hardware stores to find one that was long enough.
Dialing in the powderdrop was easy. Lee's chart was dead on at 4.0 Grains on my scale.
I did 4 successful rounds.
Am having issues with primers not feeding properly, and the powder dropping through the unprimed cases. Started getting frustrated so I stopped around 4pm, but will take another crack at it tomorrow.


One thing I have to say: Lee's instructions SUCK. There is so little information included with the press, it was really frustrating having to come back into the house and watch videos on how to zero the shell plate and tighten the ram screw. This info should really be in the manual

Somewhere way, way back I remember watching a guy that made a video for tuning up the primer system on one of the Lee Progressives. It went into exacting detail on how to deburr the plastic feed ramps, etc.

Maybe Cowboy T will happen along and help with your primer issues, he is the master of all things Lee.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.