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-   -   2013 CA AB 48 - Skinner/Ammiano, Magazines // A - PS hearing April 2 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=660521)

DFF 12-21-2012 9:32 AM

2013 CA AB 48 - Skinner/Ammiano, Magazines // A - PS hearing April 2
 
AB 48 - http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...=201320140AB48
... and new-style link, http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...=201320140AB48

(The text is interesting, but the whole set of info is even MORE interesting.)

See also
the Beginner's guide to reading bills and
a short post on How a Bill Becomes Law

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/...introduced.pdf

DFF 12-21-2012 9:38 AM

"The bill would revise the definition of “large-capacity magazine” to mean any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, including a readily restorable, as defined, disassembled large-capacity magazine, and an oversize magazine body that appears to hold in excess of 10 rounds. The bill would make related, conforming changes. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program."

Even the look of a 30 round mag (that is actually blocked to 10) is enough for the antis to poop in their panties.

Sinestr 12-21-2012 11:22 AM

(b)*Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014

..................

DrewN 12-21-2012 11:38 AM

Huh, this could be bad for my .50 Beowulf. Unless a marked floorplate makes a difference, Beowulf 10 rounders are essentially GI 30 rounders.

Dantedamean 12-23-2012 8:40 AM

I hope they plan on grandfathering all the new high capacity magazines that will fall under This law.

phrogg111 12-23-2012 9:12 AM

This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

AlexDD 12-23-2012 1:29 PM

No hints with what is wrong/inconsistencies with bill so they can fix it. I can think of some items that may or may not be germane.

CitaDeL 12-23-2012 1:50 PM

Constructive possession of disassembled high capacity magazines.

Epic.

Dantedamean 12-23-2012 3:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexDD (Post 9997634)
No hints with what is wrong/inconsistencies with bill so they can fix it. I can think of some items that may or may not be germane.

This^^^^^

It will be interesting to see what arbitrary number they pick for reporting of the sale. I'm guessing 500.

JoshuaS 12-23-2012 3:56 PM

So the 22lr lever gun I had my eye on will be banned, because it holds more than 10rds. Idiotic

kauaibuilt 12-23-2012 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phrogg111 (Post 9995487)
This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

This bill is unconstitutional.

It also makes it so we have to transfer ammo at a gun dealer, and makes it so police have to take a report every time a target shooter buys ammo for the weekend.

This bill is a complete waste of LEO time and money, and is unconstitutional.

I wondering how many CLEO will support the reporting requirement. Who gets in trouble if (1) a bad guy is able to buy bullets or (2) otherwise "legal" person snaps and goes on a shooting spree. Will it be the ammo seller, transferring FFL, CLEO, or CA DOJ?

Rackatak 12-23-2012 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshuaS (Post 9998767)
So the 22lr lever gun I had my eye on will be banned, because it holds more than 10rds. Idiotic

No. Refer to the original post and read the bill. We need to keep our facts straight.

Librarian 12-23-2012 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rackatak (Post 10000061)
No. Refer to the original post and read the bill. We need to keep our facts straight.

Right.

There's a reason there is a link to the bill text. Take the time to understand as much as you can.

Ask questions like
Quote:

some bit of the bill
what does this mean? Be prepared to accept 'nobody is sure' as the answer.

kf6tac 12-23-2012 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phrogg111 (Post 9995487)
This bill makes people's legally possessed property illegal, and doesn't provide compensation.

No; the bill does not ban possession.

JoshuaS 12-23-2012 8:45 PM

My mistake. I had clicked the "Today's Law As Amended" and saw that it struck out the mention of tubular magazines being exempt. It didn't show there the further section that exempted them.

pbreed 12-23-2012 9:00 PM

PC?
 
Does the PC define tubular magazine?

monk 12-25-2012 6:53 PM

Good thing they didn't think to add the 50 round magazines that are made from shark fin. This would've been disastrous as they're selling like hot cakes right now.

bigcalidave 12-26-2012 9:41 AM

I guess they will have to outlaw all steel tubing, wouldn't want someone to make their own! Take a useless law, one that very few are ever prosecuted for, and make it more useless...

Librarian 12-26-2012 10:09 AM

Raise your game, folks.

Threads about bills should not be a long gripe session.

Try something like Eugene Volokh - http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/26/up-...rget-shooting/

Quote:

...
So, under either interpretation, Sen. De Leon’s proposal would make it harder for people to keep up their training in safe and effective gun use. It would make it harder for people to learn the basics about guns, by having a friend take them to the range. It would have relatively little effect on the rich and the upper middle class, but might be quite burdensome for poorer people.

And while it would burden the law-abiding, it would have basically no impact on would-be criminals, either career criminals or mass shooters. That’s true of many proposed gun restrictions; and it’s true of this one.

tintguy 12-26-2012 10:20 AM

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

taperxz 12-26-2012 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintguy (Post 10018980)
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to the possession of a readily restorable disassembled large-capacity magazine or an oversize magazine body that has been permanently altered so that the magazine cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds by a person who lawfully possessed the magazine prior to January 1, 2014.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this bill now makes manufacture,import and sale a misdemnor. As before it was a felony. It looks like if you had your rebulid kit and 10/30 before 1-1-2014 then it gets grandfathered.

Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller. This law is defacto ammo registration. Say if you only had long guns and bought ammo for such now the state knows you have a long gun.

This bill would require anyone in the state, prior to selling, transferring, or otherwise furnishing ammunition to an individual or business entity in this state or any other state to require proper identification, as prescribed, to be an authorized firearms dealer, and to report the sales to the Department of Justice. An individual who fails to make the required report or who knowingly makes a report with false or fictitious information would be guilty of a misdemeanor, as specified. By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

What they also need to understand is that it doesn't take much to drive to another state and stock up. Interstate commerce is mutha....

randian 12-26-2012 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintguy (Post 10018980)
Buying ammo after the law takes effect will be a pain in the arse because it looks like you won't be able to buy online anymore. The law basically says it has to be a ftf transaction at a reseller.

Protectionist legislation for gun retailers, from liberals no less. Who would have thought?

The Wingnut 12-26-2012 5:13 PM

This bill was likely constructed by a staff of advisors tasked to read this forum.

Illustrating all the shortcomings that are in this legislation as it's currently written gives them a roadmap to revise it. Should it pass, it will get jammed up in court by CGF and other entities. Let's not fight the grabbers' battle for them. Run silent, run deep, folks.

AlexDD 12-26-2012 5:41 PM

This ^^^^

LOW2000 12-26-2012 6:26 PM

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/w...anner-2012.png

http://nancyskinnerforassembly.com/i...neighborhoods/

Safe Neighborhoods
We need to do more to prevent gun violence. For example, we can require ballistic fingerprinting and integrated locks on all handguns sold in California.

We need to fund more community-based policing so that police can connect with the community where they serve. This will provide officers with a better understanding of the issues in that community, and the social services available to address their needs.

We need to reform our criminal statues. We should

Restore protections to our children which would prevent them from being prosecuted as adults;
Eliminate the three strikes rule by putting the issue back on the ballot;
Emphasize rehabilitation for first-time and minor offense offenders; and
Provide good support services to parolees to help them secure jobs and housing when they have finished serving their sentences.
The key to violence and crime prevention is education. Study after study shows that crime levels will drop if we invest in quality education from pre-school through college, make educational opportunities available and accessible to our children, and provide a safety net for youth and families in crisis.

Be Sociable, Share!


http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Nancy_Skinner

2010
In 2010, Skinner raised $860,336 in contributions. [11]
Her four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
Electrical Workers Local 302 $15,600
California State Council Of Service Employees $15,000
AT&T $13,800
State Building & Construction Trades Council Of California $11,800
2008


2008 campaign banner
Below are Skinner's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[12]
Contributor 2008 total
CA Medical Assoc $10,800
Northern CA Carpenters Regional Council $10,800
Electrical Workers Local 595 $9,700
California Federation of Teachers $8,200
Electrical Workers Local 302 $7,200

LOW2000 12-26-2012 6:29 PM

http://www.tomammiano.com/

http://www.tomammiano.com/images/home_portrait3.jpg

Universal Health Care. Tom authored and passed law to make San Francisco the first city in American to provide universal health care access.

Great Schools. Sponsored and helped pass “Great Schools” Charter Amendment adding $300 million to SF public schools.

Living Wage. Won battle to dramatically increase salaries for lowest-paid city employees and contract workers.

Mission Housing. Led the fight to protect Mission housing, nonprofits and artists from profit-hungry live-work developers.

Children’s Fund. Established the fund that provides millions annually to subsidize child care, health and social services for SF youth.

Police Reform. Authored measures to increase police accountability and strengthen the Office of Citizen’s Complaints.

Domestic Partners. Passed pioneering law to extend marriage privileges to domestic partners in the City.

District Elections. Sponsored & helped pass Charter Amendment to ensure neighborhood accountability and representation at City Hall.

Gang Prevention Spearheaded the establishment of outreach and gang-prevention programs for at-risk youth.



Pedestrian Safety. Pushed the city to install new stop signs, crosswalks, and speed bumps in the district to make it safe for pedestrians.

Bilingual Services. Won funding for Spanish-speaking social workers for district health clinic.

Mission Safety. Secured police officers devoted entirely to increasing public safety in the Mission and the lower 24th Street neighborhood.

Immigrant Housing. Created rental funding program to protect immigrants who lose federal subsidies for public housing.

New Citizens. Began program to assist immigrants who wish to become US citizens.

Nonprofit Assistance. Acquired funding to improve non-profit arts organizations and save them from eviction.

Affordable Housing. Created a fund to assist first-time home buyers and develop housing available to all the City’s residents.

Eviction Protection. Tripled the amount landlords must pay to relocate evicted tenants.

Political Reform. Wrote landmark campaign finance reform legislation to curb the influence of special interests and contractors on local elections.

Solar Energy. Led successful campaign to fund renewable energy installations and energy conservation improvements for both the public and the private sector.

MUNI & Transit. Secured over $780 million in new funding for SF public transportation.

Child Abuse. Established the Work Group to End Youth Exploitation and worked with DPH to create safe house for young victims of sexual exploitation.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Tom_Ammiano

2010
In 2010, Ammiano raised $293,960 in contributions. [16]
His four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
California Teachers Association $15,600
Operating Engineers Local 3 $11,700
Service Employees Local 1021 $7,800
District Council Of Ironworkers $7,800
2008
Below are Ammiano's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[17]
Contributor 2008 total
California Nurses Association $14,400
California State Council of Service Employees $14,400
California Teachers Association $14,400
Operating Engineers Local 3 $14,400
CA State Pipe Trades Council $10,800

jpigeon 12-26-2012 7:47 PM

I heard they will grandfather all mags. You just have to date the mag with a marker...:fud:

Ieyasu 12-30-2012 7:41 AM

If this post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...1&postcount=27 and Feinstein's proposal doesn't help recruit folks to join gun rights groups then nothing will.

chris 12-30-2012 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CitaDeL (Post 9997797)
Constructive possession of disassembled high capacity magazines.

Epic FAIL.

fixed it for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOW2000 (Post 10022869)
http://www.tomammiano.com/

http://www.tomammiano.com/images/home_portrait3.jpg

Universal Health Care. Tom authored and passed law to make San Francisco the first city in American to provide universal health care access.

Great Schools. Sponsored and helped pass “Great Schools” Charter Amendment adding $300 million to SF public schools.

Living Wage. Won battle to dramatically increase salaries for lowest-paid city employees and contract workers.

Mission Housing. Led the fight to protect Mission housing, nonprofits and artists from profit-hungry live-work developers.

Children’s Fund. Established the fund that provides millions annually to subsidize child care, health and social services for SF youth.

Police Reform. Authored measures to increase police accountability and strengthen the Office of Citizen’s Complaints.

Domestic Partners. Passed pioneering law to extend marriage privileges to domestic partners in the City.

District Elections. Sponsored & helped pass Charter Amendment to ensure neighborhood accountability and representation at City Hall.

Gang Prevention Spearheaded the establishment of outreach and gang-prevention programs for at-risk youth.



Pedestrian Safety. Pushed the city to install new stop signs, crosswalks, and speed bumps in the district to make it safe for pedestrians.

Bilingual Services. Won funding for Spanish-speaking social workers for district health clinic.

Mission Safety. Secured police officers devoted entirely to increasing public safety in the Mission and the lower 24th Street neighborhood.

Immigrant Housing. Created rental funding program to protect immigrants who lose federal subsidies for public housing.

New Citizens. Began program to assist immigrants who wish to become US citizens.

Nonprofit Assistance. Acquired funding to improve non-profit arts organizations and save them from eviction.

Affordable Housing. Created a fund to assist first-time home buyers and develop housing available to all the City’s residents.

Eviction Protection. Tripled the amount landlords must pay to relocate evicted tenants.

Political Reform. Wrote landmark campaign finance reform legislation to curb the influence of special interests and contractors on local elections.

Solar Energy. Led successful campaign to fund renewable energy installations and energy conservation improvements for both the public and the private sector.

MUNI & Transit. Secured over $780 million in new funding for SF public transportation.

Child Abuse. Established the Work Group to End Youth Exploitation and worked with DPH to create safe house for young victims of sexual exploitation.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Tom_Ammiano

2010
In 2010, Ammiano raised $293,960 in contributions. [16]
His four largest contributors were:
Donor Amount
California Teachers Association $15,600
Operating Engineers Local 3 $11,700
Service Employees Local 1021 $7,800
District Council Of Ironworkers $7,800
2008
Below are Ammiano's top 5 campaign contributors in the 2008 election:[17]
Contributor 2008 total
California Nurses Association $14,400
California State Council of Service Employees $14,400
California Teachers Association $14,400
Operating Engineers Local 3 $14,400
CA State Pipe Trades Council $10,800

bought and paid for by public employee unions

frankm 12-30-2012 6:01 PM

Don't worry guys. My Cornucopia will give us a way around this.

ANGLICO 01-04-2013 12:40 PM

California AB 48 - No Bullets 4 U - To be introduced on Monday
 
The Berkeley Daily Planet
Friday January 04, 2013 - 1000 AM

Editor's note: As this issue is published, we're delighted to learn that on Monday a new bill for the California legislature which does exactly what we've asked in today's editorial will be introduced, as described in the following press release:

OAKLAND, CA – To curb gun violence, mass shootings and the stockpiling of ammunition, State Assemblymember Nancy Skinner (D-Berkeley) and supporters will unveil legislation, AB 48, to establish oversight of California’s ammunition marketplace.

“When will deadly ammunition be viewed as a risk to public safety?” Skinner said. “If common cold medicines, alcohol and tobacco are regulated for their risk to public health and safety, why isn’t ammunition? Assembly Bill 48 will place boundaries on the bullets that have ravaged our communities.”

Assemblymember Skinner and supporters will announce legislation, AB 48, to regulate and tighten ammunition sales in California and ban high-capacity magazines.

This bill will:

•Regulate all ammunition sales,
•Require ammunition purchasers to show identification,
•Require ammunition sellers to be licensed dealers,
•Require ammunition sellers to report sales to the Department of Justice,
•Ban kits to convert ammunition clips into high-capacity magazines.

Read the rest: http://berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue...ed-on-Monday--

Dantedamean 01-04-2013 12:43 PM

Is this the same as the De Leon one?

epilepticninja 01-04-2013 12:44 PM

So much I want to say about this particular issue.

darksands 01-04-2013 12:45 PM

Deadly ammunition as supposed to non deadly ammunition? And comparing bullets to cold medicine? Wow. Retards up there in Berkley.

compulsivegunbuyer 01-04-2013 12:48 PM

Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

Sakiri 01-04-2013 12:48 PM

So you can only buy ammo from actual gun shops, not like WalMart or KMart, and we're going to make the state even MORE broke by requiring a crap ton of paperwork to be processed on top of what we already have, backing the DoJ up more?

What are these guys smoking? Can I have some? And I foresee a LOT of people going out of state to buy ammo.

Sakiri 01-04-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer (Post 10108968)
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

Actually, no, if it does anything it'll jack up the prices because you'd need to be an FFL to sell it, and effectively cut out places like Wally World.

Fellblade 01-04-2013 12:51 PM

Wait. I won't be able to covert my M1's en bloc clips into deadly assault magazines if this passes?

nothinghere2c 01-04-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer (Post 10108968)
Well, if it passes, it will weed out all the hoarders, paranoid delusionists, and nut cases, and I might actualy be able to go into the store and buy a friggin box of ammo. **** it, I'm gonna support the damn thing.

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/5a/5afd94...f_serious.jpeg

compulsivegunbuyer 01-04-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakiri (Post 10108980)
Actually, no, if it does anything it'll jack up the prices because you'd need to be an FFL to sell it, and effectively cut out places like Wally World.

To late, 1000 rounds of 223 is already $1000.


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