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-   -   Red dot still zero after taking it off and putting it back on? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=654366)

vintagedude88 12-09-2012 10:40 AM

Red dot still zero after taking it off and putting it back on?
 
Will my red dot still be zeroed after I take it off and put back on my AR?

I'm talking about a standard A3 flat top with an Aimpoint PRO with a standard Aimpoint PRO mount.

Jyruiz 12-09-2012 10:42 AM

Probably won't be dead on, but it should be close.

cfusionpm 12-09-2012 10:56 AM

Not an Aimpoint, but same concept for the screw mount. My EOTech with standard style mount stays pretty close. Just make sure its snug with the same tighness and the same location, etc. I noticed a shift of maybe half an inch at 25 yds. If you're not shooting tiny bullseyes it's not too bad at all. I have no issues keeping it on steel at longer ranges when swapping between that and my larue quick detatch scope.

Munny$hot 12-09-2012 12:21 PM

With the QRP mount it will rezero in the same slot. When ever I mount an optic I push it forward to butt up against the forward rail to prevent movement from recoil.

lavey29 12-09-2012 12:45 PM

I was wondering about this as well. I just purchased 2 Aimpoint Pro's and was curious about the mounting position on the AR. Seems everyone mounts them so the end of the Aimpoint stock mount is right at the edge of the delta ring which makes sense obviously but I have noticed that even on AR rifles that have the monolithic type rail (no delta ring) on top (which one of mine does) that people still mount the red dot sight so that the stock mount just matches up with the portion where the rail meets the upper receiver.

Is there a specific reason for this? Is it so you have a return to zero spot? I thought the farther out front on the rail the red dot goes the better overall sight picture you have? Seems almost all the pics that I see even with the T1 sights use that same reference point on the rifle rail though.

tomd1584 12-09-2012 1:17 PM

The QRP2 mount is a very solid mount, that will repeat zero pretty darn close each time, provided you re-install it in the same location as before.

It's not as fancy or pretty looking as Larue, ADM, or bobro, but it works well. A much improved version of the original QRP mount.

negolien 12-09-2012 1:34 PM

I have swapped out my Eotech and been almost zero. Just have to use the same T-markings and push forward when remounting /shrug.

MrPlink 12-09-2012 4:20 PM

Being that I play musical chairs with my optics A LOT and usually on rifles that have an absolute cowitness I can tell you that with the quality mounts the shift in zero is very minute at best if there at all. Not enough to worry about as far as practical shooting is concerned. If you want super accurate groups... well you got the wrong optic to begin with.

Rider1k 12-09-2012 4:45 PM

I just shot my Aimpoint comp4 today after taking it off. It sits on LaRue QD mounts. I was happy to see that it was only off by less than a 1/2 in at 100 yds.

MXRider 12-09-2012 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munny$hot (Post 9883488)
With the QRP mount it will rezero in the same slot. When ever I mount an optic I push it forward to butt up against the forward rail to prevent movement from recoil.

Not quite. The QRP mount has about a 4 moa shift on average. Some are better than others.

Bobro and Larue make great Aimpoint mounts that return to zero within .5 moa.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Rider1k 12-09-2012 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider (Post 9885016)
Not quite. The QRP mount has about a 4 moa shift on average. Some are better than others.

Bobro and Larue make great Aimpoint mounts that return to zero within .5 moa.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

^^^ this. As stated above I can atest to the LaRue mounts. Worth every penny!

knkali 12-09-2012 5:17 PM

aimpoint micro on a qd la rue mount here. On and off 10 times with same zero. la rue stuff is excellent.

1 SIG fan 12-09-2012 6:17 PM

Larue mounts... Yes. Any other. Maybe not. But probably close enough at 25. You would see a shift further out...

Munny$hot 12-09-2012 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider (Post 9885016)
Not quite. The QRP mount has about a 4 moa shift on average. Some are better than others.

Bobro and Larue make great Aimpoint mounts that return to zero within .5 moa.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Hmmm 4moa is quite a bit of movement at 100 meters. Did you remount your QRP back to the same slot and push forward? The breaking torque knobs is very consistant. I always click 3 times to insure it the same. I shot 4 3shot groups dismounted my sight and it rezeroed 3 times on 3 different rifles using 3 different QRP mounts. 2 new style, 1 older style and they rezeroed every time

MXRider 12-09-2012 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munny$hot (Post 9885829)
Hmmm 4moa is quite a bit of movement at 100 meters. Did you remount your QRP back to the same slot and push forward? The breaking torque knobs is very consistant. I always click 3 times to insure it the same. I shot 4 3shot groups dismounted my sight and it rezeroed 3 times on 3 different rifles using 3 different QRP mounts. 2 new style, 1 older style and they rezeroed every time

Nope, same place every time. Don't believe me? Look it up. Those mounts are not good for return to zero and that's why companies like Larue and Bobro sell mounts for Aimpoints that come with mounts.

It's well documented they have on average a 4 moa shift. Some mounts are much worse. Eotech has had problems with as much as 20 moa shift on factory mounts on the older models. If it weren't for this issue, these companies that make mounts wouldn't be able to sell their product.

Like I said though, some stock mounts are better than others and don't have the POI shift problem, however its not the norm.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Munny$hot 12-09-2012 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider (Post 9886095)
Nope, same place every time. Don't believe me? Look it up. Those mounts are not good for return to zero and that's why companies like Larue and Bobro sell mounts for Aimpoints that come with mounts.

It's well documented they have on average a 4 moa shift. Some mounts are much worse. Eotech has had problems with as much as 20 moa shift on factory mounts on the older models. If it weren't for this issue, these companies that make mounts wouldn't be able to sell their product.

Like I said though, some stock mounts are better than others and don't have the POI shift problem, however its not the norm.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

It's not that I don't believe you, It's that I did the test my self instead of believing internet FUD and buying a 150.00 mount that wasn't needed. Larue make excellent mounts and I'm sure the Kool Aide taste great. I did do a google search,but failed to find "well documented 4MOA shift anywhere on a QRP mount" Care to share where this info is??? ..... Aimpoint makes an awesome sight and a excellent reputation. To think they would cheap out on mount a put something out that is sub par from what they claim of return to zero would hurt their reputation.

MXRider 12-09-2012 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munny$hot (Post 9886543)
It's not that I don't believe you, It's that I did the test my self instead of believing internet FUD and buying a 150.00 mount that wasn't needed. Larue make excellent mounts and I'm sure the Kool Aide taste great. I did do a google search,but failed to find "well documented 4MOA shift anywhere on a QRP mount" Care to share where this info is??? ..... Aimpoint makes an awesome sight and a excellent reputation. To think they would cheap out on mount a put something out that is sub par from what they claim of return to zero would hurt their reputation.

I find it hard to believe you had no POI shift with the QRP mount as there will always be a small shift even with high end mounts. Also notice how few companies advertise their mount as "return to zero". That should be an indicator.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

shooter556 12-09-2012 8:25 PM

I don't see why it would change zero. I take my EOTech off and on on my standard flat top and it always stays zeroed. I'd assume it would be the same thing for Aimpoint products.

Munny$hot 12-09-2012 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider (Post 9886586)
I find it hard to believe you had no POI shift with the QRP mount as there will always be a small shift even with high end mounts. Also notice how few companies advertise their mount as "return to zero". That should be an indicator.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

First off a 1x RDS is hardly a precision scope, but my groups remained consistent no 4MOA shift.

All that aside any links to the "Well documented links of a 4MOA shift on a QRP".??? or was that FUD??? If you did read something did that person have any expertise in this area or was it just some ACO "Arm Chair Operator" spreading FUD???

Munny$hot 12-09-2012 9:34 PM

Just to be clear 4moa at 100 meters is a 4" movement, so if you where using a Aimpoint Pro with a 2moa dot 1/3 or absolute co-witness and dismounted and remounted it you will see the dot moved 2 widths up/down/left or right. You can easily see this movement just by using irons dismounting your rds and remount it. You should loose your 1/3 or absolute co-witness with you irons sights which I didn't find with my Aimpoint with a (1)QRP and (2) QRP mounts on (2) 1913 Picatinny A3 flat top upper and a KNS RASII rail.

SarcoBlaster 12-09-2012 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rider1k (Post 9885002)
I just shot my Aimpoint comp4 today after taking it off. It sits on LaRue QD mounts. I was happy to see that it was only off by less than a 1/2 in at 100 yds.

Better edit your post before the LaRue fanboys claim there's no way that's possible.

17+1 12-10-2012 12:20 AM

Probably depends on the mount you're using. I have no experience with the one you listed.

The LaRue mount I have on one of my AR uppers will return to zero, within a minute of angle. Once it was zeroed for the load I settled on, it was removed and reattached several times over the course of a few months, mainly for storage or transport of the upper. Always returned close enough to zero that I don't really notice it. Other factors like amount of barrel fouling, ambient temperature, barrel temperature, etc. will affect POI as well so it may be hard to isolate POI shift unless you run a test and try to minimize outside variables. This may be a waste of time with a red dot, which isn't going to give you precision anyways.

MXRider 12-10-2012 3:11 AM

There is a lot of misconception here about what return to zero means. Like I said earlier, the Larue has about a half moa shift on average. The QRP, while still a good mount, is a bit more. On my phone, so not gonna link anything. Google is your friend.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Munny$hot 12-10-2012 8:03 AM

I'm on my computer and googled "QRP problem, will not hold zero, looses zero, etc" and found nothing. Unless there is a lot of "well documented 4moa shift" I have to call your claims.....FUD

MXRider 12-10-2012 8:26 AM

Sigh, its not a problem, its just the design of these mounts. Also consider that you are shooting probably 3-4 moa ammo, out of a 1-2 moa rifle using a 2-4 moa red dot. Lots of room for error and POI shifts are inevitable. Fact is the Larue and Bobro mounts are proven to hold zero better. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't sell mounts.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

POLICESTATE 12-10-2012 8:34 AM

Depends on the scope and mount. Accucam type mounts should be right on.

Mine is. With an Aimpoint Comp2 I use a GG&G QD Accucam cantilever on my AR.

I take it off and put it on every time I shoot and haven't needed to re-zero since day one. And that's been many times over the last few years.

Plus I have it co-witnessed with my irons so if it's off I'll know right away :)

Not sure about the stock Aimpoint mounts, I hear they are good if you are up close but can be off a little at longer ranges when you put it back on, YMMV

Munny$hot 12-10-2012 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider (Post 9888540)
Sigh, its not a problem, its just the design of these mounts. Also consider that you are shooting probably 3-4 moa ammo, out of a 1-2 moa rifle using a 2-4 moa red dot. Lots of room for error and POI shifts are inevitable. Fact is the Larue and Bobro mounts are proven to hold zero better. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't sell mounts.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Nope my every day hand loads will do 1moa all day long at 100 meters, but yes my rig will shoot 1.5-2 moa. As I stated before my groups stayed the same. The key factors to retain zero has to do with how precise the machining of the rails/mount, and the torquing method/consistency used. Mounts for the Aimpoint such as Bobro, Larue, Aimpoint and A.R.M.S all use a tri-lock system. Larue and A.R.M.S all rely on a camming action which some people don't like due to the galling of the rail that this action causes. While Bobro and Aimpoint rely on a compression lock and doesn't gall the rail. High end mounts are more precisely machined especially in the ring are which is one of the reasons they retain zero.

Still with no proof of your post it's still :fud::fud::fud:

MXRider 12-10-2012 10:28 AM

Lol, whatever you say bud.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

SuperSet 12-10-2012 10:54 AM

I tested the EXPS QD mount once and it had a 1MOA deviation at 100yd so well within the acceptable range. For scopes, I don't remove them and tighten them so you can't remove them without tools. I used to think that I could do the QD thing since I was using LaRue and ADM levers but I saw for myself how it affected the group size.

Munny$hot 12-10-2012 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXRider (Post 9889263)
Lol, whatever you say bud.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Funny how you cant back up "Da FUD Butta" your spreading but I'll let you off the hook and stop pressing to back up your post.

There is pleny of info/video that Larue scope mounts retain their zero when remounted. That said IMHO I would gladly trade my QRP for a Larue anyday but only for the lighter weight and no snag profile. I haven't tested a Larue mount so for me to post which is better would be FUD.

whipkiller 12-10-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munny$hot (Post 9889468)
Funny how you cant back up "Da FUD Butta" your spreading but I'll let you off the hook and stop pressing to back up your post.

There is pleny of info/video that Larue scope mounts retain their zero when remounted. That said IMHO I would gladly trade my QRP for a Larue anyday but only for the lighter weight and no snag profile. I haven't tested a Larue mount so for me to post which is better would be FUD.

Wow, I guess you showed him.:rofl:

Munny$hot 12-10-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipkiller (Post 9889645)
Wow, I guess you showed him.:rofl:

Yup guess Im OCD on fact vs ficton and on Kool Aide drinkers LOL..

Tack425 12-11-2012 8:35 PM

I have swapped optics on my POF 415 with an Aimpoint Comp ML3 in a LaRue mount. Every time it has been within 1/2MOA when set in the same rail slot and pushed forward in that slot then snugged down with the lever. I always make sure to move the mount forward so it will not shift due to recoil.

Tack425 12-11-2012 8:35 PM

I have swapped optics on my POF 415 with an Aimpoint Comp ML3 in a LaRue mount. Every time it has been within 1/2MOA when set in the same rail slot and pushed forward in that slot then snugged down with the lever. I always make sure to move the mount forward so it will not shift due to recoil.


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